RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: janjim on Thursday 18 September 25 04:32 BST (UK)
-
Needing some assistance please. Am trying to find migration to Australia of Thomas Henry Howard b. 1843 approximately Bermondsey, Surrey England.
He married in 1874 at Norwood near Adelaide, South Australia to Emily Sprinks.
His wife Emily Howard died 1922 in Victoria. Have been unable to find his Death.
jan
-
I wonder if this is him.
Find A Grave
Thomas H Howard
Birth 1851 Death 24 Feb 1927 (aged 75–76)
Burial Melbourne General Cemetery Parkville, City of Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Plot MGC-COE-Comp-VS-No-289S
and this may be Emily
Emily Howard
Birth 1847 Death 21 Sep 1922 (aged 74–75)
Burial Melbourne General Cemetery Parkville, City of Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Plot MGC-COE-Comp-VS-No-289S
Regards Cass
Ps Funeral / death Notice for Thomas
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204198781?searchTerm=howard
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204198679?
and emily
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/1845158
-
Will and Probate Thomas H Howard; Residence : Fitzroy; Occupation : Commission Agent
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/898B4AB8-F565-11E9-AE98-05DB6CA9D443?image=2
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/B76D522B-F1F4-11E9-AE98-791E9F8F3522?image=16
-
What is the last sighting you have for him in the UK - any census information? Do you have his parents' or siblings names?
-
Hi
do you have the marriage cert, it may confirm parents given names
Ancestry have this record
Name Thomas Henry Howard Marriage Date 8 Jul. 1874
Marriage Place Res of Mr Oliver Norwood, South Australia Registration Place Adelaide, South Australia, Australia Spouse Emily Spinks Father William Howard
Page number 67 Volume Number 100
Cass
-
this a complete stab in the dark
on the wills found by Cupoflife there is a daughter named Eliza (maybe named after a grandmother)
I have been looking FAG SA Cemeteries, there is a grave at Cheltenham Cemetery for
Eliza Howard
Birth unknown Death 1 Oct 1905 Burial Cheltenham Cemetery
Cheltenham, City of Charles Sturt, South Australia, Australia Plot H
in the same Cemetery in same plot
William Howard
Birth unknown Death 1 Oct 1885
Burial Cheltenham Cemetery
Cheltenham, City of Charles Sturt, South Australia, Australia Plot H
As I said a complete stab in the dark. but maybe Thomas parents
cass
-
Will and Probate Thomas H Howard; Residence : Fitzroy; Occupation : Commission Agent
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/898B4AB8-F565-11E9-AE98-05DB6CA9D443?image=2
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/B76D522B-F1F4-11E9-AE98-791E9F8F3522?image=16
Daughters named in Will
Death: 11910/1939 BIRCH Emily Mary; age 64; Mother-SPRINKS; Father-HOWARD Thomas; place of birth: Adelaide South Australia; Place if death: Prahran
Death: 15485/1925 TAYLOR Eliza Jessie; age 46; Mother-Emily SPINKS [sic]; Father-Thomas Henry HOWARD; Place of death: St Kilda
-
this a complete stab in the dark
on the wills found by Cupoflife there is a daughter named Eliza (maybe named after a grandmother)
I have been looking FAG SA Cemeteries, there is a grave at Cheltenham Cemetery for
Eliza Howard
Birth unknown Death 1 Oct 1905 Burial Cheltenham Cemetery
Cheltenham, City of Charles Sturt, South Australia, Australia Plot H
in the same Cemetery in same plot
William Howard
Birth unknown Death 1 Oct 1885
Burial Cheltenham Cemetery
Cheltenham, City of Charles Sturt, South Australia, Australia Plot H
As I said a complete stab in the dark. but maybe Thomas parents
cass
I did look at Bermondsey in the 1841 census and there is this family with parents William and Eliza HOWARD (all born in county) at Alfred Place:
William HOWARD 41 waterman
Eliza 35
Elizabeth 9
Eliza 5
Emma 4
William (unclear?) 2
Thomas 11m
HO107/1047/2/48 pg 8&9
However, Thomas HOWARD is a common name.
-
Vic bdm death:
2486 / 1927 HOWARD Thomas Henry; age 76; Mother- ; Father-DAVIS Ralph Harris ???; Place of death: Melbourne East
-
Emily BIRCH https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11285006
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/244246454/emily-birch
Charles Samuel BIRCH https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/244166638/charles-samuel-birch
-
Cass, Thanks so much for this, yes that is our man, also his wife. I am so sorry I have not been able to get on to Rootschat, to reply yesterday afternoon. For some reason or other, the website would not allow me to send any replies. Frustrating to say the least.
Jan
I wonder if this is him.
Find A Grave
Thomas H Howard
Birth 1851 Death 24 Feb 1927 (aged 75–76)
Burial Melbourne General Cemetery Parkville, City of Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Plot MGC-COE-Comp-VS-No-289S
and this may be Emily
Emily Howard
Birth 1847 Death 21 Sep 1922 (aged 74–75)
Burial Melbourne General Cemetery Parkville, City of Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Plot MGC-COE-Comp-VS-No-289S
Regards Cass
Ps Funeral / death Notice for Thomas
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204198781?searchTerm=howard
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204198679?
and emily
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/1845158
-
Thanks cup of life, I do apologise for no reply yesterday, so much trouble getting back on to website to reply to all that information. So that's interesting who the Father is, Ralph Harris Davis, maybe he was adopted, seems odd.
At the end of the day though, still cannot find any immigration records. He married in Norwood South Australia though.
Vic bdm death:
2486 / 1927 HOWARD Thomas Henry; age 76; Mother- ; Father-DAVIS Ralph Harris ???; Place of death: Melbourne East
-
[maddys52, once again I am sorry i've not been able to reply to your posting, trouble getting on to the website.
Yes, this could be possible, but looking at some other information regarding Ralph Harris Davis as possibly being the Father (shown on death records), just don't know. If that was so, he must have been adopted.
Still cannot find any immigration records either. Very strange.
Jan
quote author=maddys52 link=topic=893945.msg7682299#msg7682299 date=1758179941]
this a complete stab in the dark
on the wills found by Cupoflife there is a daughter named Eliza (maybe named after a grandmother)
I have been looking FAG SA Cemeteries, there is a grave at Cheltenham Cemetery for
Eliza Howard
Birth unknown Death 1 Oct 1905 Burial Cheltenham Cemetery
Cheltenham, City of Charles Sturt, South Australia, Australia Plot H
in the same Cemetery in same plot
William Howard
Birth unknown Death 1 Oct 1885
Burial Cheltenham Cemetery
Cheltenham, City of Charles Sturt, South Australia, Australia Plot H
As I said a complete stab in the dark. but maybe Thomas parents
cass
I did look at Bermondsey in the 1841 census and there is this family with parents William and Eliza HOWARD (all born in county) at Alfred Place:
William HOWARD 41 waterman
Eliza 35
Elizabeth 9
Eliza 5
Emma 4
William (unclear?) 2
Thomas 11m
HO107/1047/2/48 pg 8&9
However, Thomas HOWARD is a common name.
[/quote]
-
The marriage certificate is likely to have more accurate information about parents' names as this information is given directly. The death certificate is only as accurate as the informant knows. South Australian marriage certificates in 1874 should show father's names.
You have probably seen the marriage notice?
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/208170981
-
Will and Probate Thomas H Howard; Residence : Fitzroy; Occupation : Commission Agent
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/898B4AB8-F565-11E9-AE98-05DB6CA9D443?image=2
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/B76D522B-F1F4-11E9-AE98-791E9F8F3522?image=16
Just to note that in 1903, 1905, 1908, 1913, 1919 and 1922 Thomas Henry HOWARD (and Emily HOWARD) are at 46 Moor St, Fitzroy on the electoral roll. Thomas is an upholster.
-
Just further to Cass' reply #15 .
William and Eliza HOWARD. Not looking likely related
From BISA.
Sue
-
Thanks Sparrett for that information.
Jan
-
Yes thank you Maddys, looks like we need to get a copy of the marriage certificate. Thanks for copy of marriage notice. No I hadn't seen that one.
Jan
The marriage certificate is likely to have more accurate information about parents' names as this information is given directly. The death certificate is only as accurate as the informant knows. South Australian marriage certificates in 1874 should show father's names.
You have probably seen the marriage notice?
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/208170981
-
Unfortunately South Australian marriage certificates at this time do not contain a lot of information, however it should have fathers' names. I'm not sure whether a church record may have more information?
There are a few options for Thomas HOWARD immigration to Australia before 1874, but difficult to say whether any are "yours".
Where did you have that he was from Bermondsey and born c1843? (Noting that the age at death for Thomas Henry HOWARD gives a birth year c1851.)
-
Maddys52, I am still looking into this in regard to his birth date, that was old information that I had for him being born in Bermondsey, need to do some more research now that we know his birth date appears to be 1851.
Am thinking maybe his parents migrated to Australia way before then.
Jan
-
I'm not sure whether this is related -
There was a fire in Hanson St, Adelaide in March 1880 at the home and premises of Henry OLIVER, mattress maker and cabinetmaker. The inquest into the cause of the fire found that it was caused by negligence of Thomas Henry HOWARD, the brother of Eliza OLIVER, who had been sleeping there. The article about the inquest does say that HOWARD was married, but implies he was living there alone.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/197737447
The Police Gazette of 17 March 1880 has the verdict "That the fire was caused through the gross carelessness of Thomas Henry Howard."
If this is the correct Thomas Henry HOWARD, it may provide another clue to his family - sister Eliza who married Henry OLIVER.
-
Eliza HOWARD married Henry OLIVER in 1871 in Victoria (220 / 1871).
Victorian marriage certificates at this time contain a lot of useful information - birthplaces, parents' names and occupations.
Eliza OLIVER died 15 May 1920
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/210555445
Eliza died aged 74 according to her gravestone, so born c1846
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/161449263/eliza-oliver
(Henry OLIVER died 10 December 1916)
-
Maddys52, that's absolutely great, we know now that Thomas Henry Howard b. 1851 had this sister, Eliza. Yes, he was married in 1874 in South Australia to Emily Sprinks. It appears that he died in 1927 in Melbourne.
Getting closer, may finally find out when they migrated to Australia.
Thanks for all of that information.
-
In 1898 in the Victorian Rates Books on Ancestry, Thomas Howard who lives at 46 Moor Street Fitzroy, is a mattress maker. ;D
Sue
-
Hi Sue,
Yes, that's good to get too, thank you. A mattress maker, interesting !
Jan
In 1898 in the Victorian Rates Books on Ancestry, Thomas Howard who lives at 46 Moor Street Fitzroy, is a mattress maker. ;D
Sue
-
A closer look at the books shows Thomas HOWARD at that address from 1893 to 1900.
The property owner was The Colonial Bank.
Sue
Adding.
It is not a big leap from mattress maker to upholsterer as we have seen previously being listed as his occ.
-
sparrett,Yes agree with you, need to get back on to one of those Howard family members, they were hide, tanners back in UK.
Will get back to you.
Jan