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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: goldie61 on Sunday 14 September 25 23:21 BST (UK)
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Some of these contracts in Rodiere include very interesting sections itemising the goods the parties bring to the marriage.
I imagine like a dowry.
I'd like some help with this one please.
Apport du mariant: une maison amazée du chambre. cave, grenier,
et autre comodits, située a Montreuil, place du Dernestal, tenant ?
aux Boucheries communes, de liste à Marand Quibeuf et d’aultre
audit Jolly; tenue ? des mayeur et eschervins par 10.s.ts et de
l’Hotel Dieu St Nicolas par 8 l .ts de rente remboursable -
Apport du mariante: de la succession de son pere, 300l; une ?
et jardin a Questinquen, cont. 5 ?, tenant au ? dudit Questinquen
a Rober Miellet; des rentes sur divers particuliers de(?) Boullogne,
? St Martin etc Lesdits Guerard Le Viel et du Camp ?
? per chacun en aux mariante, au jour de St Andre, un septier
de bled de m? , durant la vie dudit Guerard seulement
I'd be grateful for a translation too. There are some bits I'm not too sure about.
Does that really mean "an amazing house"?
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Could it be une maison amagé? Possibly meaning une maison aménagée - a furnished house?
If no one else has had a shot at translating, I'll have a look this evening, when I'm home from work. It does look like a z though rather than a g.
Haven't found amazé in any Picard or ch'ti lexicons.
Possibly begins: Contribution of the spouse: a house furnished with a bedroom, cellar, attic, and other amenities.
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Struggled with some of the abbreviations and vocabulary, eg messere. Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. Here's my attempt at a transliteration and translation (Happy for others to tidy up or rectify any errors):
Apport du mariant : une maison amazée de chambre, grenier et aultres comodités, situé à Montreuil, place du Dernestal, aux Boucheries communes de l’isle de Marand Quibeuf et d’aultre audit Jolly ; tenue fonction des mayeurs et cochevins par 2 sous tournois, et de l’Hostel Dieu St Nicolas par 8 livres tournois de rente remboursable de la mariante : de la succession de son père, 300 livres ; une massere et jardin à Questinguen, contenant 5mes, tenant au r dudit Questinguen, Robeau Miellet ; des rents sur divers particuliers à Boullogne, Wimille, St Martin etc, Les dits Guérard Le Viel et du Camp fourniront par chacun aux mariants, au jour de St André, un septier de bled de muison, durant la vie dudit Guérard seulement.
Not sure of tenant au r, r = rente, résidence or something else?
Place du Dernestal = modern day Place Darnétal?
There is place called Marant near to Montreuil.
Hostel-Dieu = hospital run by the church
Septier: An old unit of dry measure used in France, varying by region but often equivalent to roughly 240 litres or about 200 kilograms of grain.
Contribution of the bridegroom:
A house comprising a furnished room, attic, and other conveniences, located in Montreuil, at Dernestal Square, near the communal butchers of the Isle of Marand Quibeuf and others, belonging to the said Jolly; held under the authority of the mayors and aldermen for a rent of 2 sous tournois, and to the Hôtel-Dieu Saint Nicolas for an annual redeemable rent of 8 livres tournois, to be reimbursed by the bride.
From her father's estate, the bride brings a dowry of 300 livres; a farmhouse and garden at Questinguen, comprising 5 mesures (units of land), adjoining the land of the said Questinguen and Robeau Miellet; and rents from various individuals in Boulogne, Wimille, Saint-Martin, etc.
The said Guérard Le Viel and du Camp shall provide to the married couple, annually on the feast of Saint Andrew, one septier (a measure) of household wheat, for the duration of Guérard’s life only.
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@manukarik: I spent some time solving the abbreviations. I also corrected a few misreadings.
Apport du mariant: une maison amazée de chambre, cave, grenier
et aultres comodités, située à Monstreuil, place du Dernestal, tenant par derriere
aux Boucheries communes, de liste à Marand Quibeuf et d’aultre
audit Jolly; tenue foncierement des mayeurs et eschevins par 20 sols tournoiz, et de
l’Hostel Dieu Saint-Nicolas par 8 livres tournoiz de rente remboursable. Apport
de la mariante: de la succession de son père, 300 livres; une mature
et jardin à Questinguen, contenant 5 mesures, tenant au devant dudit Questinguen,
à Roboan Miellet; des rentes sur divers particuliers à Boullogne,
Wimille, Saint-Martin, etc. Lesdits Guérard Le Viel et du Camp four-
niront par chacun an aux mariants, au jour de Saint-André, un septier
de bled de muison, durant la vie dudit Guérard seulement.
***
Translation done by AI, better than I could have done it.
Contribution of the groom: a house consisting of a bedroom, cellar, attic, and other conveniences, located in Montreuil, on Place du Dernestal, bordering at the back the public butcheries, on one side the property of Marand Quibeuf, and on the other the property of the said Jolly; held as freehold from the mayors and aldermen for 20 sols tournois, and from the Hôtel-Dieu Saint-Nicolas for 8 livres tournois of redeemable rent.
Contribution of the bride: from the estate of her father, 300 livres; a meadow and garden in Questinguen, containing 5 mesures, adjoining in front the said Questinguen, and bordering on Roboan Miellet; rents from various individuals in Boulogne, Wimille, Saint-Martin, etc.
The said Guérard Le Viel and Du Camp will provide each year to the married couple, on the day of Saint Andrew, one septier of household wheat, during the lifetime of the said Guérard only.
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Thanks :) @Zefiro !
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Many thanks indeed manukarik and Zefiro.
I would never have known some of those abbreviations.
Thanks also for some of the explantions manukarik.
I never thought of using AI Zefiro!
What did you use?
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I never thought of using AI Zefiro!
What did you use?
I use Perplexity. I've used it as my assistant for documents written in German & French. It can generate different kind of versions. It can create modern day versions of old archaic texts (without translating). It translates to the kind of text you need (keeping the historic language or rendering a more contemporary text).
I'm impressed by its skills in grammar. In my opinion, it's way better than Google translate.
Test it out yourself ;)
https://www.perplexity.ai/
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Thanks Zefiro.
I will try it out.
The downside is it may replace the lovely people like you who help out on this board! ;)
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Thanks :) @Zefiro !
Couldn't make my mind up whether it was lisle or liste. Changed boucheries to butchers' as to my mind butcheries sounded weird! In English, une boucherie = a butcher's (shop). Always value your corrections, knowledge and wisdom!
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The downside is it may replace the lovely people like you who help out on this board! ;)
You'll still need people that can read the old scripts. ;)
So keep on posting ;D