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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: ollieandjas on Tuesday 09 September 25 19:14 BST (UK)

Title: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: ollieandjas on Tuesday 09 September 25 19:14 BST (UK)
hello
I'm trying to find ancestors in the Byker, Wallsend, Newcastle area in the late 19th and early 20th century. I have never done any research in this area before and am finding it difficult to find any baptisms or marriages of the families that are in the tree. I have access to Ancestry but one particular family the Stapletons/ Stabletons/ Stabletons/ Stapyltons are proving really hard to find. Is there a shortage of records that have been released to online platforms? or am I just failing to locate these people.

I have an Alice Stapleton that married a William Henry Wright in 1907 at St Lukes Wallsend. she gives her father as John Stapleton a labourer. Alice was 22 (so she says) at the time of her marriage. I can find her after this in the 1911,1921 census and 1939 register. However, I cannot find her in birth registrations, baptisms or positively identify her in census returns prior to 1907. In 1921 and 1939 she records her name as Jane Alice and Jane A.
Any help or guidance would be very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Biggles50 on Tuesday 09 September 25 19:55 BST (UK)
Obtaining her Marriage Certificate will give her age (hopefully accurate) together with her Father’s name and occupation.

These will then give you a starting place to research further back.

FreeBMD gives:-

Marriages Sep 1907
WRIGHT   William Henry   Tynemouth      10b      493

Alice has the same entry but shows only Alice as her name.

Possible birth for Alice

Births Sep 1883
STAPLETON    Alice        Darlington    10a   37

1911 census has her birth place as Marske, Yorkshire and the above birth is by far the nearest.

Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 09 September 25 21:13 BST (UK)
What is her full birthdate on the 1939 register?  That should enable you to find a birth reg
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Spelk on Tuesday 09 September 25 21:19 BST (UK)
"1911 census has her birth place as Marske, Yorkshire"

That could be Marske near Richmond or Marske by the sea near Redcar.
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 09 September 25 21:26 BST (UK)
The RD for Marske was Guisborough
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 09 September 25 21:34 BST (UK)
Removed - Wrong couple

Interestingly

Birth of daughter gives mmn Richardson

WRIGHT, ELSIE  MARGARET  mmn   RICHARDSON 
GRO Reference: 1910  S Quarter in STOCKTON  Volume 10A  Page 64

Quite a large family with Alice, father John in 1881 -1901 living Normanby, Yorkshire in 1891/1901

RICHARDSON, ALICE    mmn   LYNAS 
GRO Reference: 1881  M Quarter in GUISBROUGH  Volume 09D  Page 487
 
Cas
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 09 September 25 21:39 BST (UK)
Deleted
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: ollieandjas on Tuesday 09 September 25 21:47 BST (UK)
Hello all
Thanks for the pointers.
The 1939 Register gives her birth date as 14th February 1884.
I have her marriage certificate and that gives her age as 22. These two don’t quite match up.
I think the 1911 is meant to be Newcastle Northumberland spelt and amended incorrectly by William her husband who would have filled in the form.
I’ve searched birth registrations from 1880 to 1890 using this information but nothing comes up using various spellings of her maiden name.
When her daughter Irene was born and registered in Tynemouth district her maiden name was recoded as Stapylton. She lived in Wallsend with her husband until his death in 1934.
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 09 September 25 22:08 BST (UK)
Deleted - wrong area

Cas
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 09 September 25 22:19 BST (UK)
Removed - wrong fathers name
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Biggles50 on Tuesday 09 September 25 22:25 BST (UK)
In the Marriage Certificate that you have, what was her father’s forename and surname.
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: jonwarrn on Tuesday 09 September 25 22:41 BST (UK)
In the Marriage Certificate that you have, what was her father’s forename and surname.

she gives her father as John Stapleton a labourer
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Millmoor on Tuesday 09 September 25 22:49 BST (UK)
I think the family are actually in Wallsend in 1911  at the same address as they are found in 1921 and so do not agree with Marske as the p.o.b. Alice's husband simply records himself as W Wright in the 1911 census and was born in Dudley, Staffs. Alice's age is transcribed as 25 but the original shows 28.

On this basis this may be Alice in 1901, a servant in Byker.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSMY-SFL?lang=en

The nearest I can get for her in 1891 with a father called John is this where the original actually has his daughter called Mary Alice Stableton. ( I cannot see a birth for her or a brother called George William.).

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HS8P-DT2?lang=en



Are there any clues from witnesses on her marriage cert. ? If I have located her correctly in 1939 did she remarry?

William
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: jonwarrn on Tuesday 09 September 25 22:51 BST (UK)
Just in case :-\
There's an Alice Stapleton (Stapelton), 19, in Newcastle in 1901
Visitor to James and Elizabeth Courtney
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSMY-SFL

(Sorry William, you just posted that)

The Courtneys are in the Newcastle Chronicle, 28 March 1899
James charged with wounding his wife.
Mrs. Courtney said she was 19 years of age, and on Saturday night she was walking in the company of her cousin Alice Stapleton ...

Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 09 September 25 22:51 BST (UK)
I can see where the confusion is, there are 2 couples with same names

The one the OP is following is at 6 York street and not born Marske

1911
W Wright 25 Head
Alice Wright   28   Wife Newcastle, Northumberland
Mary Alice Wright 2 Daughter
Wright 1 mth Daughter

Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Spelk on Tuesday 09 September 25 23:49 BST (UK)
Freebmd shows that in NoT 1898 a James Millen COURTNEY married - maybe an Elizabeth Hannah MAYNE.
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 10 September 25 03:31 BST (UK)
There is a Jane Alice Stapylton  reg 1882 S. Shields December quarter mother's maiden name Baker

In 1939 gives DOB as14 January 1884
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 10 September 25 03:46 BST (UK)
Possible  1891 Census Tynemouth - 41 Church Way

Robert H Stapylton 33 railway ticket collector born Newcastle
Annie 34             born Jarrow Durham
Jane A age 8**   Born Hebburn
Annie B  6
Joseph B 3
Ethel 1
Alice Baker 25 sister in law born S Shields Durham

Wrong father not John
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 10 September 25 03:57 BST (UK)
1901
This Jane A Stapylton 18 Born Hebburn Durham niece is with James Purvis who married Dorothy Baker

Looks as though she marries John Stott Dennier  1907
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 10 September 25 04:19 BST (UK)
The 1939 register shows that Jane A Wright remarried to Strachan

This was 1944 Sept. quarter Robert Strachan to Jane A Wright.

Who does she say her father is on this certificate and what is his occupation?
 
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Millmoor on Wednesday 10 September 25 07:25 BST (UK)
There are actually a lot of useful resources for the Newcastle area. The newspaper archive has already been mentioned. Family search is well worth exploring as is Durham Records Online which includes records for Newcastle and Tynemouth.

Durham Records Online is a pay for view site but you can do a lot of useful free searches. I have found by doing this a number of Wright baptisms in Tynemouth district with 6 York Street as the address. Searching with parents as William and Alice they are:
Emily 1908
Mary Alice 1908
Martha Ann 1911
Irene 1913
William Henry 1916

Searching with parents as William and Jane :
Florence May 1918
Margaret Isabel 1921

These baptisms do have corresponding entries for births in the Gro Indexes, mother's maiden name being shown as Stapleton or variations  Stapeliton or Stapylton. The only exception to this is Martha Ann whose mother's maiden name is shown as Irish. It might be worth exploring this surname further.

William
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Millmoor on Wednesday 10 September 25 07:37 BST (UK)
There is a birth for a Jane Alice Irish in Newcastle Jan- Mar 1882 mmn White.

William
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: ollieandjas on Wednesday 10 September 25 07:50 BST (UK)
Thanks all
There are a few good pointers here.
I was totally unaware of Durham Records Online so will check that out.
The witness to her marriage clue is a very good suggestion, especially as she is mentioned as a cousin to Alice in the newspapers.
The Irish surname needs checking out definitely.
I didn’t think she had remarried so I’ll explore that too.
It does seem odd that neither Alice nor her potential brother George were registered at birth. I’ve now had a look at that census entry, which does look like it could possibly be her but could not find a marriage for her parents but will do some more digging now I have another resource to use.
I



Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: PrawnCocktail on Wednesday 10 September 25 09:12 BST (UK)
Sorry to throw a spanner in the works, but do bear in mind that Alice's father's name could be wrong. Many illegitimate children would make up a father's name to put on the marriage cert, often using the name of another relative, or a combination of their own surname and a step-father's name. So if you aren't finding an Alice with a father John, try searching for an Alice with a brother George, an Alice who is maybe with a couple with a different surname in the census, a baptism with a single mother .....
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 10 September 25 09:34 BST (UK)
1879 marriage - John Irish and Mary Ann White, Newcastle, are on the same page.
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 10 September 25 09:43 BST (UK)
There is a birth for Mary Jane Irish in 1880.

1881   5066 /9/9

John Stableton 27 yrs
Mary Ann 26 yrs
Mary Jane 1 yr
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Millmoor on Wednesday 10 September 25 18:00 BST (UK)
Possible for Mary Ann White in 1871?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRMM-75Z?lang=en

Note mother is called Alice and the address on the original is St Lawrence , the same locality as John Stableton in 1871.

And this is her I think in 1861:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7N6-JKK?lang=en

Note that father William is shown as working in a manure works ( as is John Stableton in 1881). William and Alice White can also be found in the 1881 ( where his occupation is shown as a manure dissolver in guano works - lovely!)and 1891 census.

William
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: ollieandjas on Wednesday 10 September 25 20:34 BST (UK)
Wow! I’m really impressed by the research skills in this group.
This family was proving to be a real brick wall for me but with the help of all of you I may now be able to get past it. Thank you.
The Stapleton/ White/ Irish line does seem to be the most promising.
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Biggles50 on Wednesday 10 September 25 21:19 BST (UK)
I have not read the whole thread since my response but if this family is your family then it is probably time to order a DNA test kit or perhaps two.

One for whoever is directly descended from the couple in question and the other for a person who is directly descended from the probable MRCA.
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Radcliff on Saturday 13 September 25 22:23 BST (UK)
Newcastle Evening Chronicle date 5th March 1934,
Wright - Wallsend
6 York Street,
on the 3rd inst
William Henry beloved husband of Jane Alice Wright
Internment Tuesday all friends invited
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Radcliff on Sunday 14 September 25 00:23 BST (UK)
This is only a thought if Jane Alice Wright remarried to Robert Strachan in 1944, at the age of 60, she possibly married Robert Strachan born 1880 who in 1939 is married to Elizabeth and living Denholme estate in 1939, Elizabeth wife of Robert possible died Wallsend in 1943
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: ollieandjas on Sunday 14 September 25 08:59 BST (UK)
Thanks Radcliffe

I haven’t had chance to check the marriage out yet but I had a Quick Look this morning and I think you could be right.
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: Radcliff on Sunday 14 September 25 13:48 BST (UK)
if your local to North Shields, perhaps you could visit the Library they have lots of resources that you can search and the staff are very helpful
Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: River Tyne Lass on Tuesday 16 September 25 13:04 BST (UK)
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/287077294/robert-strachan

Holy Cross Cemetery, Wallsend
Entry 3627
Elizabeth Strachan
Age 66
Wife of Robert
11 Deneholm, Willington Quay
Burial 29 Oct 1943
Section 9 plot 619 cons

Holy Cross Cemetery, Wallsend
Entry 9740
Robert Strachan
Age 83
92 Main Crescent, Wallsend
Died at Royal Victoria Infirmary
Burial 8 May 1963
Section 9 plot 619 cons

I haven't had a chance to look through this full thread yet but I wonder if Jane remarried an Etherington and if she died as Jane Etherington in 1968?

Title: Re: Difficulties tracing ancestors the Newcastle area
Post by: ollieandjas on Friday 19 September 25 19:56 BST (UK)
hello All
sorry I haven't replied to a few kind souls who have helped me but our internet has been out for best part of the week. Some idiots decided to steal cabling and caused enormous damage to our broadband network knocking out 2000 households! It's the second time in fifteen months.
Many thanks to all who have replied with suggestions, your help is greatly appreciated.
kind regards
Jayne