RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: DianaCanada on Monday 08 September 25 16:22 BST (UK)
-
Just looking over some family lines I have neglected - I descend from Martin West of Bolton Abbey, Yorkshire via his daughter Ann (m. John Pickard). I have a copy of his will, dated 1761 (he died soon after), in which he names all ten children and his wife Sarah. He appears to leave the farm itself (variously Hagg Head, Haggshead, Hog Head etc., quite a few variations) - the will it is Hagg Head, parish of Skipton. So I am assuming Bolton Abbey is part of Skipton.
Forgive my naive question, but would Martin have owned the farm outright? This seems rather rare in the time period.
Haven't found his marriage yet, but one tree on Anc says he married Sarah Spofforth. If this is true I am probably extremely distantly related to my children via their early New England settler, John Spofford.
-
Genuki re Skipton Parish shows the boundary of the parish which does include Bolton Abbey https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Skipton This could be the Hagg Head the will refers to https://maps.nls.uk/view/102344791#zoom=5.5&lat=5454&lon=13106&layers=BT
If Martin West left the property in his will then I would presume he owned it, although it is always possible there was outstanding debts on the property ?? :-\
Kay
-
Bolton Abbey is not far from Skipton.
Could be he left the lease of the farm? He might have held it for "three lives" (his own, a son and grandson perhaps) and have left the remaining lease to someone else, perhaps a second grandson? I think that was possible.
-
Bolton Abbey is not far from Skipton.
Could be he left the lease of the farm? He might have held it for "three lives" (his own, a son and grandson perhaps) and have left the remaining lease to someone else, perhaps a second grandson? I think that was possible.
This is the exact wording on the will: "Item I will that my son Martin with the Leave of the Lord and Owner thereof have the farm where I now dwell."
-
My expertise is in Irish land ownership not English but this enquiry strikes a chord. In Ireland most farmland was leased (as opposed to owned outright by the farmer) and in the 1700s 3 lives leases were common here too. When a farmer died, in his will, he could leave the leased farm to a descendant (often the eldest son) or he might direct it be sold. What was being sold was the unexpired portion of the lease (which might also have been renewable in many cases, so of significant value), plus the crops in the ground, the livestock, seed, tools and machinery and the contents of the farmhouse.
-
As a side point, Bolton Abbey is a great place to visit. A few miles east of Skipton off the A59 which goes towards Harrogate.
Great walks and in The Strid one of the most fascinating stretches of water in the country.
-
"This is the exact wording on the will: "Item I will that my son Martin with the Leave of the Lord and Owner thereof have the farm where I now dwell."
So Martin senior didn't own the farm outright, "the lord and owner" did. Must be the lease he was leaving to son Martin, if the lord agreed.
-
In that area the 'lord and owner' was most likely the Duke of Devonshire.
Drosybont
-
There are two sites marked 'Hag Head' on the map linked in reply #1. (On a later map the northerly Hag Head is marked as Hag Head Laithe).
On the 1847 tithe map the northerly site is in the township of Draughton (parish of Skipton). It is labelled on the tithe map as Hagghead, owner the Duke of Devonshire, occupier "Shiers" (very unusual on a tithe record to have an incomplete name). Whoever Shiers is, he has a large holding of ~300 acres in the vicinity. Looking at a few plots along the parish boundary it seems that the Duke of Devonshire's holdings did not extend south across the parish boundary into Addingham.
On the 1843 tithe map the southerly Hag Head lies just within the township of Addingham (in the parish of Addingham). Although the farmhouse is clearly shown on the map with a plot number of 16, it is not listed separately in the records. However the neighbouring land is all owned by Henry Alcock Bramley and occupied by Timothy Brear.
In the 1841 census a Timothy Breare is a farmer at Haghead in Addingham, and is still there in 1851. This must be the southerly farm.
I went looking for 'Shiers' in the 1841 census, and when I checked a Leonard Shiers, farmer, (abode unclear, but not Hag Head), I noticed that his neighbour immediately preceding him is Martin West, abode Hag Head, farmer age 76, plus 11 other family members (all West).
Thus it seems that the northerly Hag Head was the West's farm. Perhaps it had passed on to the Shiers family between 1841 and 1847?
-
Burial in the Chapelry of Bolton Abbey, 6th May 1843
Martin West, age 78, abode Hag Head.
If you have access:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2FBUR%2F600012733&tab=this
-
If the Martin West who was at Hag Head in 1841 was born ~1765, this would be consistent with him being the grandson of the will-making Martin West, so perhaps he was the third life, as suggested in reply #2. Then upon his death the lease was transferred to Francis Shiers?
-
If the Martin West who was at Hag Head in 1841 was born ~1765, this would be consistent with him being the grandson of the will-making Martin West, so perhaps he was the third life, as suggested in reply #2. Then upon his death the lease was transferred to Francis Shiers?
Yes I had done a bit of looking at the later Martins - the one in 1841 is his grandson and that Martin's father was Martin II. It does seem to fit in with the three lives tenancy.
I did have a peruse through the internet for information on Bolton Abbey - I had noticed the Duke of Devonshire connection. They still do, am not sure exactly how.
Now I will have to see if I can prove Sarah Spofforth was Martin I's wife.
Thank you for everyone's help. I've learned a lot.
-
If the Martin West who was at Hag Head in 1841 was born ~1765, this would be consistent with him being the grandson of the will-making Martin West, so perhaps he was the third life, as suggested in reply #2. Then upon his death the lease was transferred to Francis Shiers?
Where did you find Francis Shiers? I can't see him living in Bolton Abbey in 1851.
-
I stopped adding to the research because it seemed to be getting too far from your original question.
Francis Shiers died in 1845, aged 59. In 1851 his widow Hannah is a farmer at Hawpike living with her son Benjamin, aged 17. As I mentioned above, the Hagg Head tithe record dates from 1847.
I’m now thinking that the sequence of events was:
Martin West died in 1843 whereupon Francis Shiers took on the lease of Hagg Head, essentially combining two adjoining farms both owned by the D of D.
Francis Shiers died in 1845 but his son Benjamin was too young to inherit (and presumably Hannah couldn’t inherit a lease)
When the 1847 tithe record was made Benjamin was still too young to inherit so the annotation ‘Shiers’ on the records is some sort of shorthand for ‘Executors of Francis Shiers’.
Benjamin Shiers was still a farmer at Hawpike in 1891, but retired before 1901.
-
I stopped adding to the research because it seemed to be getting too far from your original question.
Francis Shiers died in 1845, aged 59. In 1851 his widow Hannah is a farmer at Hawpike living with her son Benjamin, aged 17. As I mentioned above, the Hagg Head tithe record dates from 1847.
I’m now thinking that the sequence of events was:
Martin West died in 1843 whereupon Francis Shiers took on the lease of Hagg Head, essentially combining two adjoining farms both owned by the D of D.
Francis Shiers died in 1845 but his son Benjamin was too young to inherit (and presumably Hannah couldn’t inherit a lease)
When the 1847 tithe record was made Benjamin was still too young to inherit so the annotation ‘Shiers’ on the records is some sort of shorthand for ‘Executors of Francis Shiers’.
Benjamin Shiers was still a farmer at Hawpike in 1891, but retired before 1901.
Thank you, grateful for any information on the tenancy.
-
Bolton Abbey is not far from Skipton.
Could be he left the lease of the farm? He might have held it for "three lives" (his own, a son and grandson perhaps) and have left the remaining lease to someone else, perhaps a second grandson? I think that was possible.
This is the exact wording on the will: "Item I will that my son Martin with the Leave of the Lord and Owner thereof have the farm where I now dwell."
Leave of the Lord
Might also mean the property was Copyhold meaning that the Manor Court dealt with the Transfer, rather than the appropriate Yorkshire Deeds Registry (which survive from the early 1700s).
When my family were transferring Copyhold property we owned, my family would instruct a Solicitor to:-
1) approach The Manor Land Agent / Estate Office and get a valuation a % of the property value to be Admitted to the Manor.
2) Pay the Admission and get a Manor Court date.
3) Attend the Manor Court and while the Transfer and Admission took place, hold a straw in your hand if it was the Custom of that Manor (it was for us).
4) The Transfer was then entered in the Manor Court Rolls and The Admissions Book.
Quite a lot of Manor Court Rolls survive in Archives, University Special Collections and some have been found in the British Library Dept Manuscripts and places like that.
Some straws that people held in the Manor Court were affixed to the Transfer admission document and sometimes in Archive Collections you will see a description and it says ... with Straw attached or similar wording.
The Manor Court documents, are more likely to give more information about the exact type of Tenure and Transfer.
Mark
Added: Some Rented / Leased Manor property could also transferred from one family member to another. Let for a specific Term of Years.
Surviving Manor Rolls (Manor Court Rolls), Survey, Rentals can sometimes be really useful to the Family Historian and House researcher and give a clue to the exact type of Tenure and situation.
2nd Add
When the Manor sold our village pub in 1766, the first owners had to pay a Quit Rent for 35 years according to the Rental Books.
It was also noticed at another Archive (which also held some Manor MSS for 1764 - 1765) that the Pub Licensee had sat on the Manor Court, describing him as Owing Suit to the Court and naming him.
-
The 1761 Burial is recorded in PR/BNA 1/1
Described as "Bolton Abbey Parish Registers" held at North Yorkshire County Record Office.
1761
July 7. Martin West buried
I was hoping the image might have more detail.
Yorkshire Archaeological Society (documents, usually held at Leeds University Special Collections)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.yas.org.uk/Portals/0/Collections%2520Guide%252011Feb2018.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj8-7rDl8yPAxXcWUEAHUhsJBkQFnoFCIEBEAE&usg=AOvVaw2mPcfMFC_UC9-Sefigmmxd
MS 937 (1935)
List of Records belonging to the Duke of Devonshire formerly at Bolton Abbey, later removed to Chatsworth, made by G. E. Kirk. See also DD121.
But you would have to get the lists, before you could even determine if a type of document around the date might survive and then search those documents in the Archive to see if one might contain a reference to a named ancestor.
But sometimes a researcher can be fortunate to find a document of a named person in a Collection Handlist or bound Collection Indexes, but in Manor Documents, it can be an extensive search to find all the records mentioning an Ancestor (if the original Estate Collection has survived more or less complete)
Photographs, Information Leaflets and Documents etc., containing "Bolton Abbey" listed here as well (Held at Various Archives) ...
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/3?_ep=Bolton%20Abbey&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv
Mark
-
North Yorkshire Archives, at Northallerton
https://archivesunlocked.northyorks.gov.uk/CalmView/Overview.aspx
In the Quick Search searching:- Pickard Bolton
Collection Cat Reference
ZTJ PICKARD AND PECKITT RECORDS
Moor family of Oswaldkirk records including deeds relating to Oswaldkirk 1682-1750, Byland Abbey...
14th century-20th century
Has a very general undated reference to Bolton Abbey in a whole list of places in this collection.
I have tried narrowing it down to find where Bolton Abbey appears but no knack on this modern cataloguing.
I usually have to email them and they do it.
So I'll leave that up to you?
Mark
-
Some kind of long paragrah re West family of Wharfedale (11 miles from Bolton Abbey), too recent, but are any of them yours?
Some buried at the Abbey
Some of these Obit paragraphs / part columns are useful for broadening out family trees.
Wharfedale & Airedale Observer
Otley, Yorkshire, England
16th October 1908
A Wharfedale Veteran.- We regret to announce the death of Mr Joseph West of Bradford, which occurred at his residence at Manchester Road, on Friday, the 9th inst., ...
He was descended from an old Wharfedale family, being the third son of Wm. West (who for upwards of 40 years was a woodman in Bolton Woods), and grandson of the late Martin West, of Bolton Bridge, who lived at the toll-bar. He was born at Beamsley on June 27th, 1827. When a boy he attended Bolton Abbey school, ...
Mr West was married in 1851 at Bierley Church to the daughter of the late Mr Joseph Sagar, the union ...
Several of his ancestors are interred at the Abbey, ...
Mr T. W. West resides at Baildon ...
Mr Frank H. West, is a Printer, residing at Detroit, Michigan, U.S.A., having gone there in 1887.
Mark
-
Some kind of long paragrah re West family of Wharfedale (11 miles from Bolton Abbey), too recent, but are any of them yours?
Some buried at the Abbey
Some of these Obit paragraphs / part columns are useful for broadening out family trees.
Wharfedale & Airedale Observer
Otley, Yorkshire, England
16th October 1908
A Wharfedale Veteran.- We regret to announce the death of Mr Joseph West of Bradford, which occurred at his residence at Manchester Road, on Friday, the 9th inst., ...
He was descended from an old Wharfedale family, being the third son of Wm. West (who for upwards of 40 years was a woodman in Bolton Woods), and grandson of the late Martin West, of Bolton Bridge, who lived at the toll-bar. He was born at Beamsley on June 27th, 1827. When a boy he attended Bolton Abbey school, ...
Mr West was married in 1851 at Bierley Church to the daughter of the late Mr Joseph Sagar, the union ...
Several of his ancestors are interred at the Abbey, ...
Mr T. W. West resides at Baildon ...
Mr Frank H. West, is a Printer, residing at Detroit, Michigan, U.S.A., having gone there in 1887.
Mark
Mark, thank you for your help and suggestions and links to resources.
Some of the Wests are likely mine, but not in the direct line, later relatives perhaps. The name Martin seems to be carried down for a long time, but I need to do some extensive research on the family.
It's interesting that you mentioned Pickard in the earlier post, as my ancestor, and Martin I's daughter, Ann, married a John Pickard was was born in Ilkley. Their son Samuel was born in 1766 in Addingham, and he ended up moving to Burnley, where a large number of Pickards established themselves. On to the 20th century, my father was born there in 1921 (not a Pickard by that point).
When I first found the name Pickard in my family I thought it was connected to Picardy in France (there is a French surname Picard) but it turns out it is a variation of Richard.