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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: jessienicolson on Saturday 06 September 25 12:39 BST (UK)

Title: Peterhead
Post by: jessienicolson on Saturday 06 September 25 12:39 BST (UK)
I have in my possession a photograph of a father and two sons, taken during the first world war. ie father Thomas Sutherland, one son Thomas Sutherland in a naval reserve uniform and I presume another son ie James Sutherland in a army uniform.  I have details of both Thomas Sutherland Senior and Thomas Sutherland junior.  The only information I have of James Sutherland is from a 1901 census in Aberdeen, when he is listed with both parents, ie mother was Jane, and his sibling Thomas.  It states James Sutherland was born around 1887 in Glasgow, presumably to father Thomas Sutherland and mother Jane Reid, who were married in 1891 in Glasgow.  Thomas senior was a marine engineer.  Thomas Junior died about 1920 in an english hospital, of breathing problems, so I am thinking maybe he had spanish flu.  Thomas; Senior died in1933 in Grimsby.  To date I have never been able to find out any birth, of James Sutherland.  Not sure if he maybe died during the first world war.  Such a common surname in Peterhead.  Any help would be appreciated
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 06 September 25 12:58 BST (UK)
Quote
It states James Sutherland was born around 1887 in Glasgow, presumably to father Thomas Sutherland and mother Jane Reid, who were married in 1891 in Glasgow

Marriage 4yrs after the birth??  Have you looked under Reid?
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: jessienicolson on Saturday 06 September 25 13:19 BST (UK)
Yes I have.  His mother died in 1906 in Aberdeen and the father and possibly the two sons moved to Peterhead where the father remarried later in 1906.
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: David Nicoll on Saturday 06 September 25 14:57 BST (UK)
Hi, do you have the marriage record of Thomas Sutherland and Jane Reid. Is he a batchelor?
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: jessienicolson on Saturday 06 September 25 15:58 BST (UK)
Yes he is.
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 06 September 25 16:52 BST (UK)
Was Jane a spinster
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 06 September 25 17:09 BST (UK)
1891 has a James Sutherland aged 3 b Glasgow boarding with a Matthew & Kate Smylie in Glasgow
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: jessienicolson on Saturday 06 September 25 17:14 BST (UK)
could this be him.
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 06 September 25 17:21 BST (UK)
Thomas & Jane married St Rollox.  There are 3 James Reid births in St Rollox 1887-1888 - no mmn shown

You would need to download all 3 certs
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: jessienicolson on Saturday 06 September 25 17:25 BST (UK)
thank u
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: ruthhelen on Sunday 07 September 25 19:14 BST (UK)
I think I may have found your James Sutherland - but boy was it a convoluted journey :-)

He was registered as James Sutherland Blackhall on 15 January 1888 in Glasgow, the illegitimate son of one ‘Jane Blackhall, worker in a sausage factory’. Not obviously your Jane Reid, but two additional pieces of evidence point to this, indeed, being her. Firstly, Jane’s mother was Elspet Blackhall, and secondly, there is a Jane Sutherland, sausage maker in the 1891 census at 396 Parliamentary Street, Glasgow - that is the address that both Thomas Sutherland and Jane Reid give as their address when they get married on 23 April 1891.

James is not with his mother in 1891 - he could be the Jas Sutherland lodging with the Smylie family mentioned above. He appears again with Thomas Sutherland, Jane Reid and Thomas Sutherland junior in 1901 in Aberdeen, as we already know.

I next find him as James Sutherland Blackhall in Aberdeen, where he is imprisoned in 1910 - born Glasgow, living at 2 York Place, Aberdeen, occupation: trawl fireman. He then appears, also as James Sutherland Blackhall, trawl fireman, lodging in Marishal Street, Aberdeen. In 1911.

By 1920, he’s calling himself James Blackhall Sutherland. He marries in Aberdeen on 29 December 1920 to Johanna Georgeson Campbell or Hepburn (a widow) - father Thomas Sutherland, trawl engineer; mother Jane Reid. Both James and Johanna are in Aberdeen in the 1921 census with two of Johanna’s children from her first marriage.

James Blackhall Sutherland died in 1946 in Aberdeen. His death was registered by his son - it looks like J Sutherland - although I can’t see an obvious candidate for him - there were a lot of J Sutherlands born in Aberdeen in the 1920s. James and Johanna did have at least one daughter, Edith Bruce Sutherland, born in 1921. She married James Gauld Cowie in Aberdeen in 1948, and died in 2005 in Aberdeen.

Ruth
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: jessienicolson on Sunday 07 September 25 20:15 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for doing all this work for me.  Little wonder I have never found him.  Why on earth did she give him the name Blackhall, we will never know.  This great grandmother of mine has had several illegitimate children before marrying in1891.  One of her children was my grandmother born 1884 in Aberdeen. I am overjoyed with your news and will find it hard to sleep tonight.  I thank  you from the bottom of my heart.
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: jessienicolson on Monday 08 September 25 09:47 BST (UK)
Once again thank you for all the details about James Sutherland, I dont suppose you would know the details of why he was imprisoned. 
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: ruthhelen on Monday 08 September 25 12:35 BST (UK)
I don't, but the lovely folk at Scottish Indexes will be able to supply you with more details for a modest fee: https://www.scottishindexes.com/prisontranscript.aspx?prisonid=661735126

Ruth
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: jessienicolson on Monday 08 September 25 12:44 BST (UK)
thank you
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: softly softly on Monday 08 September 25 13:27 BST (UK)
ruthhelen, great sleuthing, well done.

SS
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: Rena on Monday 08 September 25 22:50 BST (UK)
ruthhelen :  absolutely well done!
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: ruthhelen on Tuesday 09 September 25 21:19 BST (UK)
I do love a good puzzle  ;D

And just to round this one off - the elusive son - J Sutherland, who registered his father’s death. James Blackhall Sutherland and Johanna Georgeson Campbell lived at the same address in Aberdeen until James died in 1946. Going through the electoral registers, their son pops up in the 1940s, he was John Hay Sutherland, who was born in 1923 in Aberdeen. He married Lilian Elizabeth Robertson Beattie or Forbes in Aberdeen in 1950. They emigrated to the USA in 1954. John Hay Sutherland died in Snohomish, Washington in 2005, and his wife died in 2002.

Ruth
Title: Re: Peterhead
Post by: jessienicolson on Tuesday 09 September 25 21:55 BST (UK)
You are amazing, thank you so much. In order to get more on James Blackhall and why he was in prison, unfortunately I dont deal with paypal, so will have to ask a cousin of mine if she is able to do this for me.
Once again thank you.