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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: goldie61 on Saturday 06 September 25 08:57 BST (UK)
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I’m tryig to find the notary’s entry for the marriage contract of Francois Dupin/Dupain to Anne Duvivier in 1638.
This person on geneanet says there is a contract dated 12 August 1638 in Montreuil sur Mer for them, but I can’t see anywhere which notary it is in.
https://gw.geneanet.org/cathalipre?n=dupin&oc=&p=francois&type=fiche
I’m surmising it’s in the Rodiere transcriptions somewhere.
There is no marriage for them in the Montreuil sur Mer list of bmds, although there are several baptisms for their children after this date, so it looks as if they stayed in M sur M after their marriage.
The Duvivier family was quite a large one, and there are contracts for her sister Catherine 5th Oct 1639 to Laurent Bocquillion, (notary Boucher), in which Anne Duvivier and her husband Francois Dupain are mentioned.
Also a contract for their brother Jacques, also in 1638, (‘divers notaries’) to Marie Fourdrinier. Again, Anne and her husband are mentioned in it.
I’ve looked through most of the Rodiere films I could see that covered that date of 12 Oct 1638, but couldn’t find it.
Any ideas how to pin down where it might be?
Many thanks
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Hi goldie61;
see here :
https://gw.geneanet.org/defcors?n=duvivier&oc=1&p=anne&type=fiche
16 septembre 1689 :
Contrat de mariage (avec Jean DE MONSIGNY)
Dans son étude sur les MONSIGNY, Michel CHAMPAGNE indique un CM devant Antoine MOLMYE notaire à Desvres le 19-02-1689.
Anne DUVIVIER est dite fille de honorable homme Pierre DUVIVIER, en son vivant marchand à Desvres et de Madeleine GREBEN.
Source : "Vieilles familles du Boulonnais et du Haut pays" tome 4 (AM 483) page 101.
Sources: https://www.gennpdc.net/lesforums/index.php?showtopic=5053&hl=vivier
CM is a contrat de mariage (marriage contract)
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Joger,
I think you've got the wrong Anne. Goldie is looking for the one that got married in 1638, not in 1689.
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Yes, that's a couple of generations further on joger, but thanks for looking.
She was part of the same family - they tended to have big families, so there were lots of them.
I can't access the gennpdc link. It wants me to sign in with password etc.
I'll see if I can find 'Vieilles familles du Boulonnais et du Haut pays' online somewhere.
Thanks
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Hi there,
Fascinating inquiry—thanks for sharing all the contextual leads; it’s a solid genealogical puzzle.
Given the mention of multiple family members (Catherine and Jacques Duvivier) and the reference to different notaries (including Boucher and “divers notaries”), I agree that the Rodiere transcriptions are a likely place to look, especially for Montreuil-sur-Mer in the early 17th century.
You might try cross-referencing Catherine’s 1639 contract with Laurent Bocquillion more closely—sometimes the mention of siblings in one contract can lead to the notary who handled earlier ones, especially if it was a family notary they used consistently. If Boucher handled hers, there’s a reasonable chance he or his predecessor handled Anne’s as well.
Have you had a chance to look into parish-level notarial inventories for Pas-de-Calais yet? Occasionally, they’re grouped by canton rather than commune, which makes things more obscure.
Also—if you're tracking surnames like Dupin/Dupain or Duvivier across time, you might find some helpful cross-variants and regional clusters at tools like BestLastNames.com
, especially for understanding how spelling shifts over time across regions in France.
Hope that helps—and good luck uncovering the exact contract! Would love to hear what you find if you do manage to track it down.
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Oh ! My apologies, I ' ll try to find the right one .
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I’m tryig to find the notary’s entry for the marriage contract of Francois Dupin/Dupain to Anne Duvivier in 1638.
This person on geneanet says there is a contract dated 12 August 1638 in Montreuil sur Mer for them, but I can’t see anywhere which notary it is in.
https://gw.geneanet.org/cathalipre?n=dupin&oc=&p=francois&type=fiche
I’m surmising it’s in the Rodiere transcriptions somewhere.
There is no marriage for them in the Montreuil sur Mer list of bmds, although there are several baptisms for their children after this date, so it looks as if they stayed in M sur M after their marriage.
The Duvivier family was quite a large one, and there are contracts for her sister Catherine 5th Oct 1639 to Laurent Bocquillion, (notary Boucher), in which Anne Duvivier and her husband Francois Dupain are mentioned.
Also a contract for their brother Jacques, also in 1638, (‘divers notaries’) to Marie Fourdrinier. Again, Anne and her husband are mentioned in it.
I’ve looked through most of the Rodiere films I could see that covered that date of 12 Oct 1638, but couldn’t find it.
Any ideas how to pin down where it might be?
Many thanks
12 august 1638 or 12 october 1638?
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Well, the entry on geneanet gives it as 'August 12 1638' joger. No other information.
Interestingly, the contract for Anne's brother Jacques Duvivier is 'Le 12 8bre 1638'.
From all the contracts we've looked at previously, ad discussions we had about dates at this time in history, I thought this would be 12 October.
I'm just checking that I've worked that out correctly?
It occurs to me that the person on Geneanet may have taken this to be 12 August instead of October, and they had noted that Anne Divivier and her husband Francois Dupin are mentioned in it.
It would be a bit odd, as the person on geneanet sounds like a French person, who would surely know about the dating system.
This would mean there is no actual contract for Anne and Francois Dupin - just a sighting of them at brother Jacques' marriage.
If you click on Jacques' name, it doesn't even mention the marriage contract for him
Perhaps they have listed it on the wrong page.
What do you think?
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You might try cross-referencing Catherine’s 1639 contract with Laurent Bocquillion more closely—sometimes the mention of siblings in one contract can lead to the notary who handled earlier ones, especially if it was a family notary they used consistently. If Boucher handled hers, there’s a reasonable chance he or his predecessor handled Anne’s as well.
Have you had a chance to look into parish-level notarial inventories for Pas-de-Calais yet? Occasionally, they’re grouped by canton rather than commune, which makes things more obscure.
Thanks for your interest thomaslin.
Yes, I thought they might have used to the same notary, but I still couldn't find anything for Anne.
I'm coming round to thinking there may not be a contract for Ann and Francois Dupin, and the person who has listed this on geneanet, with no information about where it is, has either put it on the wrong page, or just used it as a reference to Anne's brothers contract.
I'm not sure what is meant by 'parish-level notarial inventories'.
I have seen there is a large number of noatary records on geneanet under the Rodiere transcripts, in which I have luckily found many pertinent documents, but am not aware of anything else elsewhere.
Are these inventories on-line anywhere, and searchable?
Thanks for your help.
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"It occurs to me that the person on Geneanet may have taken this to be 12 August instead of October, and they had noted that Anne Divivier and her husband Francois Dupin are mentioned in it.
It would be a bit odd, as the person on geneanet sounds like a French person, who would surely know about the dating system."
You are right : 12 8bre means 12 october and is an abbreviation that a genealogist should not take for august ( month number 8 is august in the calendar), but it could happen if the genalogist is an amateur or reads or writes too quickly.
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Thanks joger.
I think this is what must have happened here.