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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: queencorgi1 on Thursday 04 September 25 14:23 BST (UK)
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This man comes from a wealthy family and had a successful career as an interpreter/translator and journalist. However, I can find virtually no actual documents relating to him! I have a birth and a death record, one census entry (1891) and details of an arrest in 1916. I can't find him in any other censuses. I know he got married but can't find any record of it happening.
Of course I suspect part of the problem if not all of it is because 'Ralph Butler' is quite a common name but I'm also wondering if he preferred to be known by some other name.
This is really just a rant of frustration but if anyone feels like digging around and finds anything, it would be much appreciated!
Ok, will take a deep breath ...
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Serge De KAZARINE and Violet C WHITE 3 1920 St Martin 1A 1536
Violet C De KAZARINE and Ralph BUTLER 1931-1935 Menton, France vol 25 page 228
(GRO Consular Marriages )
Serge married again in 1928 so presumably there was a divorce.
Looks possible.
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Thank you Christine!
Yes this is the right man -- I found a reference to the marriage in Wikigen but couldn't trace it. This is the explanation. Many thanks.
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1901 census he was at Rugby School.
RG 13/ 2918/125/4
Ralph Louis Giberne Butler, schoolboy, single, 17, student, Middlesex Harrow
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Jen, how did you find that, or more correctly why didn't I? Oh, you have made my evening. Many thanks.
I think sometimes when you've been looking too long you go sort of blind ...
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I searched on FindMyPast for Ralph B*, 1883 +/- 2 years, born Harrow.
He popped up transcribed as Butter (which I can understand as the handwriting isn't too good)
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;D OK now I feel better (butter)
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On Ancestry he's Ralph Louisa Giberne Button ;D
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Ralph Lewis Gibeone Butler
Baptism 12 Jun 1883 Saint Mary, Harrow
Father Spencer Perceval Butler, barrister
Mother Mary Butler
He left a will - executor was Audrey White
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The Times has a few usueful snippets
He was a Major Scholar of Trinity College Cambridge, took a first in the Classical tripos part 1, was Porson Scholar, Craven Scholar, Chancellors' classical medallist and fellow of Corpus Christi College Cambridge. Before becoming a Fellow in 1916, he was a 6th form master at Sherbourne School
There's Ralph Butler mentioned in reports from Vienna in 1920 & 21 (the first as a member of the British food mission commenting on destitution amongst university lecturers)
The marriage is announced in 1931 - she's described as Peggy (Violet Kazarine) daughter of Percy White
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Passenger list Queen Elizabeth for Ralph and Violet
Outgoing to New York 1947
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tza/
New York 1947 names crossed through
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tzb/
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I found Violet and Serge (transcribed as George) on the 1921 census in London. he was Russian and she was b St Johns Wood c1893
Some details about her https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/White-67795
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Many thanks for the new contributions! Violet sounds a fascinating character. I don't have access to the Times archive but that's an impressive haul!
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Hi,
In case you want them her divorce records are available here,
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8051285
Regards,
Daisy
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I wonder if these are both his military service:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1064199
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D1669783
I also suspect he might be the author of this item:
https://archive.org/details/neweasterneurope0000ralp/page/n5/mode/2up
As well as the translator here:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015004879378&seq=7
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Hi,
In case you want them her divorce records are available here,
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8051285
Regards,
Daisy
Thank you Daisy! Yes, I will look them up just for interest.
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I wonder if these are both his military service:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1064199
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D1669783
I also suspect he might be the author of this item:
https://archive.org/details/neweasterneurope0000ralp/page/n5/mode/2up
As well as the translator here:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015004879378&seq=7
Thank you so much for this! I was going to look up his service record today. You are of course right on all three suggestions.
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One address given on his medal card fits in with the newspaper reports I suspected were him just after WWI
The Brritish Library have a few books translated by Ralph. As well as the book linked to previously, there's
Title: The Stabilization of the Mark. [Translated by Ralph Butler. With a portrait.]
Creator: SCHACHT, Horace Greeley Hjalmar, Butler, Ralph, translator.
Publisher G. Allen & Unwin, London
Creation Date 1927
Physical description 247 pages ; (8º)
Title: Conversations with Ogotemmèli. An introduction to Dogon religious ideas, etc.
Creator: Griaule, Marcel, 1898-1956.; Butler, Ralph, translator.; HOOKE, Beatrice E.; RICHARDS, Audrey Isabel.
revised, 1965
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Serge De KAZARINE and Violet C WHITE 3 1920 St Martin 1A 1536
Violet C De KAZARINE and Ralph BUTLER 1931-1935 Menton, France vol 25 page 228
(GRO Consular Marriages )
Serge married again in 1928 so presumably there was a divorce.
Looks possible.
See col 4
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k4558267q/f11.item.r=(prOx:%20%22violet%22%205%20%22kazarine%22).zoom
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Nice find! Knowing it was in Roquebrune not Menton proper the marriage record can be found in the departmental archives
https://archives06.fr/ark:/79346/ec4d9dec8ef0bf79ef07325d2776c3bd39/img:02E_0864_00104
He is listed as resident Petit Saconnex, Swizterland. She was resident in Roquebrune with her father.
Violet and her father and sister can be seen together on the 1931 census here:
https://archives06.fr/ark:/79346/619e86be867dbbbfed7a0f708b83072e/img:06M_0186_0009
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Serge De KAZARINE and Violet C WHITE 3 1920 St Martin 1A 1536
Violet C De KAZARINE and Ralph BUTLER 1931-1935 Menton, France vol 25 page 228
(GRO Consular Marriages )
Serge married again in 1928 so presumably there was a divorce.
Looks possible.
This is simply amazing! Thank you so much. Also, this is a brand new website to me, so interesting in its own right.
See col 4
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k4558267q/f11.item.r=(prOx:%20%22violet%22%205%20%22kazarine%22).zoom
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Nice find! Knowing it was in Roquebrune not Menton proper the marriage record can be found in the departmental archives
https://archives06.fr/ark:/79346/ec4d9dec8ef0bf79ef07325d2776c3bd39/img:02E_0864_00104
He is listed as resident Petit Saconnex, Swizterland. She was resident in Roquebrune with her father.
Violet and her father and sister can be seen together on the 1931 census here:
https://archives06.fr/ark:/79346/619e86be867dbbbfed7a0f708b83072e/img:06M_0186_0009
OK this is absolutely amazing. I have never delved into French archives before and am so impressed. I have at least two other subjects who were living in France between the wars and will now try to track them down as well.
Very many thanks to both of you.