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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Natalia Bruce on Wednesday 03 September 25 11:44 BST (UK)
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Hello
My mother- in- law is researching her father John (or Jack) Hickisey, born in 01.06.1905 in London.
She has a copy of 2 old photos of him which were possibly taken in around 1927. There are some numbers on the back of one of the photos: 501 R 20. Does anybody know what these numbers possibly mean? Thanks.
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It is most likely just a reference for the photographer, e.g. an order number, very unlikely to be anything relating to him.
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Unusual to see a photo od a person walking for that era. The background is not noticeably out of focus so not using a large aperture. Must have used a fast film
PS welcome to Rootschat.
Edit - I could not find any trace of him. Probably wrong surname. What surname do you get from his death, marriage, birth of children or marriages of them.
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I cannot find him 1905 under that surname.In fact I cannot find that surname at all
LM
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I attach a screenshot from the photo. If that is the only information for his name then it will be tricky.
See my queries added to my first post.
He and his name look foreign to me. Did he live and marry in the UK? Who, where and when did he marry - if anybody.
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There is an ancestry tree which has Jack HICKISEY married Caroline Ellen Maud HEALEY 1931 in New Zealand ( from New Zealand Marriage Index ). Here is a findagrave link :
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/203522304/john-hickisey?_gl=1*m0j81s*_gcl_au*MTk3NDczNzE5OC4xNzU1NjA1MjIy
No birth details given on tree other than London 1905.
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My mother- in- law is researching her father John (or Jack) Hickisey, born in 01.06.1905 in London.
Presumably that was also her surname at birth - or no? What details are on her birth certificate?
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If he was born London and married NZ then he must have travelled there somehow - passenger list?
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FreeBMD show NO results for the surname Hickesey or Heckesey in Births, Marriages or Deaths, from the start of Registration in 1837.
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Could it be London somewhere else rather than London in the UK :-\
Looks like an American to me.
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He travelled to Australia in 1965 . The Passenger Card says he was born 1.6.1905 in England.
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=12147367&S=1877
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Yes definitely says England, interesting.
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Stated he was on holiday in NZ.
I am sure we need more info about him to find a birth.
LM
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I read it that he was going on holiday to Australia for 2 months?
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Possible sightings
J Hickesey travelling from Wellington to Sydney on the Ulimaroa in September 1929
Age 25, Hotel worker, born England
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KL1B-5MS
John Hickisey, barman, supplying liquor to under age youths in 1937
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TDN19371221.2.94
J Hickisey called up in September 1942, injured in Feb 1943
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AG19430226.2.58
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Children at catholic school(s)?
Maybe :-\
There is a catholic baptism of a Joannes Michael Hickey, 11 June 1905, Mortlake
Born 1 June 1905
Parents Patri...(Patrick) & Catharinae, olim McGrath
Add in sponsors, Edmundus Burke, Maria Hickey
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Anyway, a registration in the September quarter in Richmond RD.
HICKEY, JOHN MICHAEL
Mother's Maiden Surname: MCGRATH
GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in RICHMOND - SURREY Volume 02A Page 52
Parents married 14 August 1904, at Mortlake.
Patrick's father John
Catherine's father Michael
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Has anyone checked the 1921 Lanchester, Durham census entry for a John Hicksey, to rule him in or out?
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Place of birth given in 1921 is in Ireland and age does not tally :-\
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The Will of John Hickisey (and associated documents!)
Starting here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89XK-Q3Q2
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Thanks for your responses. The responses were useful and interesting.
His birth is a mystery to us. My mother-in-law does not have his dad's birth certificate. She has their parent's marriage certificate which states that his birth place was London. He indeed travelled to New Zealand somewhere (possibly) in 1929. He had 10 children; my mother-in law was the tenth in the family.
The information posted by jonwarrn was probably related to him as he worked as a barman (although my mother-in - law did not hear the information in the newspaper before) and he was injured in 1943. He was in the home guard in New Zealand. As a result, he became a war pensioner.
He married in New Zealand to Caroline Ellen Maud HEALEY 1931 in New Zealand. That information was correct.
My mother -in-law and some of his siblings are researching his birth and the place where he lived prior to travelling to New Zealand. There is a possibility that he was born in Ireland as he married an Irish woman. They have all the information about her, but not about their dad.
As far as his surname is concerned, the spelling seems to be different. My mother's-in-law maiden name was Hickisey. Some of the things that are coming up have the spelling Hickesey. It might be a different person or some of her siblings think that he might have changed his name.
She would appreciate any more responses. Thanks
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I would expect a marriage certificate from 1931 in New Zealand to list information about parents; is there anything there?
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John's Hickisey parents' names were
father's name was Kingsley John Hickisey
mother's name was Kathleen (McGrath, maiden name) Hickisey
This information is from the marriage certificate.
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Hmm, interesting.
That would suggest the John Michael Hickey previously found as a possible; his mother was McGrath.
Perhaps he was not raised by Patrick Hickey, and "Kingsley" is a name related to a stepfather, foster father, or other father figure.
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Children at catholic school(s)?
Maybe :-\
There is a catholic baptism of a Joannes Michael Hickey, 11 June 1905, Mortlake
Born 1 June 1905
Parents Patri...(Patrick) & Catharinae, olim McGrath
[/b]
Add in sponsors, Edmundus Burke, Maria Hickey
Anyway, a registration in the September quarter in Richmond RD.
HICKEY, JOHN MICHAEL
Mother's Maiden Surname: MCGRATH
GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in RICHMOND - SURREY Volume 02A Page 52
Parents married 14 August 1904, at Mortlake.
Patrick's father John
Catherine's father Michael
Dob of John Michael Hickey 1.6.05 matches the record at reply 10 posted by Christine
Has anyone found the family on 1911 census I’m struggling ???
Jon - are there any other details from 1904 marriage ie age, occupation, addresses, witnesses
Added - there is this Hickey family 1911 but father named John
John 27
Kate 25
John 6
Kate 4
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWLY-D93?lang=en
Edit - this looks to be the entry on Anc*y so a different family :-\ ???
Street Address 12 Maygood Street, Barnsbury Rd, Islington N
Marital Status Married
Occupation Cycle Enamellers Labourer
John Patrick Hickey 27 Head
Kate May 25 Wife >>>>>>>>>>maiden name WRIGHT married 1904 image on Anc*y
John Thomas William 6 Son
Kate Emily 4 Daughter
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Hi Ladyhawk
The witnesses were Joanne Cahill and Maria McNamara.
Carolus C Hogan was the priest, other than what I have posted there is no more info at all.
There might be a brief snippet in the Richmond Herald, 22 July 1905 :-\
The ocr text not good enough to help me..
Patrick Hickey, 22, of 4, Columbia-square
Natalia, if you do fancy getting hold of the birth certificate of John Michael Hickey in 1905, then if you register on the GRO website you can get an instant digital image for just £3.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
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Hi Jonwarrn
Thanks for your reply and information.
I registered in GRO and included the information that was provided to obtain the birth certificate of John Michael Hickey. It says No matching results found.
I included this information:
HICKEY, JOHN MICHAEL
Mother's Maiden Surname: MCGRATH
GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in RICHMOND Volume 02A Page 52
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Sounds right to me, if his birth was 1st June he might have been registered late, I agree with Ladyhawk.
LM
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It is there on GRO
Just enter HICKEY in surname box.
a whole list result.
look down to John Michael
click on the little circle on the left of his name, and an option to have a cert, a pdf, or a digital image appears.
Pick Digital image.
pay, then download the image
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There might be a brief snippet in the Richmond Herald, 22 July 1905
Patrick Hickey, 22, of 4, Columbia-square
He was a bit drunk, that's all.
The indexes to the Richmond Union application and report books have multiple entries for Hickeys in 1892 and particularly 1893, parish Mortlake
Possible family unit from these?
13 Sep 1892
John Hickey, 48
Johanna Hickey, 48
Timothy Hickey, 14
Patrick Hickey, 10
Nellie Hickey, 8
Thomas Hickey, 6
But John does not appear in them in 1893.
Is it the same Patrick who married in Mortlake in 1904? :-\
https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/culture-and-leisure/history-centre/researchers/guides/poor-law-records/richmond
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But John does not appear in them in 1893.
Here's why
Death, March 1893 Richmond, Surrey 2a 282
Hickey, John
Age 48
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I've been having a look for the McGRATH family and not had much luck. Thought if I could find them in 1911 and 1921 it might help.
This family in 1901 in Kensington might be them and if they are part of a circus it could explain why tracing them at any other time is hard. The children were born all over the place.
Frederik G McGRATH age 38 Circus Proprietor
Elizabeth wife age 37
Henry 17 Steam Driver
Kate 15
Alice 13
Lizzie 7
PS - of course Kate's father wa supposed to be Michael not Frederick G but nothing matches much with this family.
etc
PPS Maybe this is her -
Baptism Camberwell Sacred Heart 23 Feb 1890 born 17 January 1890 Catherina or Kate McGRATH
Father Michael McGRATH mother Catherinae COLLINS
Roman Catholic.
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Hi, thanks very much for the responses. A lot of it tallies with what the family believe, albeit a lot of new info here as well. The family have long suspected that the surname 'Hickisey' was made up as appears supported by the responses here. Does anyone know why the John 'Hickisey' appears likely to have changed his surname?
It is said within the family (although we don't have corroborating evidence) that John left the UK for New Zealand on a ship as a deckhand via Melbourne and perhaps jumped ship in Melbourne. It is thoguht that the the shipping company was looking for him and it is thought he may have changed his surname to 'Hickisey' at this point. Noting that one of the researchers has suggested that John's original name may well have been John Michael Hickey based on UK birth records born in Mortlake, London, is there any evidence of a John Hickey in shipping records on a ship to New Zealand via Melbourne prior to 20 September 1929 (eg in the years prior)?
(Prior to 20 September 1929 is referenced as one of the researchers has identified a John 'Hickesey' on a passenger list on the boat 'Ulimaro', which we have identified as travelling from Wellington to Sydney on that date - This tallies with family information that John was in Australia, then New Zealand, then went to Sydney (as there's a photo of John on the Sydney harbour bridge during construction) and after which he returned to New Zealand). Look forward to any further info, particularly regarding John's original surname and when, why and in what circumstances he changed it
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Have any of the family considered using DNA to aid with the search? Doing so might help, in addition to traditional, manual research methods.
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The 1905 birth certificate for John Michael HICKEY gives his place of birth as 4 Columbia Square and his father Patrick is a garden labourer. The birth was registered by Kate HICKEY on 11 July 1905 so just short of 6 weeks after the birth.
In 1911 that house has a William HICKS (age 57, Gardener) as head with his family. I thought the name was oddly similar to HICKEY but I cannot find any connection.
In 1901 the house has Farrell CONNORS as head (35 Gardeners Labourer) with his wife (maiden name DAVITT from the birth of one of the children), children, a brother and two Boarders. All from Ireland apart from the two young children.
The newspapers do not show whether Patrick and Kate were lodgers to the CONNORS or whether they had taken over renting the house.
The Herald 19 Dec 1903
Another Case at Mortlake
Police Court, Edward GALLIVAN, 21 labourer of 4 Columbia Square, charged with being drunk and disorderly, and with using bad language. Prisoner had only been in the neighbourhood a short time.
Richmond Herald 2 Jan 1904
Bartholomew HOWARD alias Thomas SULLIVAN of 4 Columbia Square Mortlake. Longer item about the Mary FRAZER case (see below.
Chiswick Times 15 Jan 1904
Charge of theft dismissed. Bartholomew HOWARD alias Thomas SULLIVAN a labourer of 4 Columbia Square, Mortlake charge with stealing £2 from Mary FRAZER to whom he had been engaged.
Kilburn Times Fri 12 Feb 1904
Ill-treating Horses
Patrick HICKEY 21, Honeysuckle cottages Wembley, stableman, discharged.
The Herald 30 July 1904
Death of an Infant
Death of Timothy CONNOR aged 10 months. Mother Kate CONNOR of 4 Columbia Square Mortlake.
The Herald 22 July 1905
Mortlake Police Court
Patrick Hickey, 22 of 4 Columbia Square, Mortlake charged with being drunk and disorderly.
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There’s a John Hickey age 18 travelling from England to Auckland 22 May 1924
Ships name Remuera
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Hi Milliepede,
That's interesting. Other families members believe he was a passenger on the boat to NZ, suggesting he would have been on the passenger list. We located the passenger list for the 22 May 1924 sailing from Southampton to Auckland and it refers to a Mr J Hickey, 18 years from the Irish Free State. My mother-in-law has a looseleaf booklet saying John was born in London in 1905, but raised in Ireland.
The above could tie in with the birth certificate of John Michael Hickey born on 1.6.1905 in Mortlake, London, whose mother was Catherine Hickey (nee McGrath) because McGrath is a family name.
Where did you find out that the first name of Mr J Hickey on the 22 May 1924 boat was John?
Many thanks
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Hi,
Thanks all. Supposing the John Hickey who went to NZ on 22/5/1924 (maybe John Michael Hickey born 1/6/1905 in Mortlake, London) is my mother-in-law's father's name and by 20.9.1929 he was travelling under the name of John Hickisey (as per passenger list on Ulimaroa from Wellington to Sydney), that implies he changed his name between these 2 dates for some reason.
ChatGPT suggests a person travelling in 1929 would usually need a passport to travel from New Zealand to Australia.
I think worth us checking with NZ BDM if John officially changed his name.
Not sure if there was any likely way of obtaining a passport in the name of John Hickisey to travel from NZ to Australia without officially changing name (?)
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DNA.
Only via the use of DNA tests can relationships be validated.
Relying solely on documents and paper records do not prove biological relationships.
Time and time again people have been researching their Family Tree and then when they take a DNA test they find that they have close biological relatives that they did not know exist.
I am one such person, nearly 20 years researching, then a series of DNA tests revealed my Dad was not my Biological Father. This in turn revealed that my Great Grandparents had their first child who was born to the Irish couple out of wedlock and was “adopted”, yet the certificates and documents showed Grandfather to have totally different parents.
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ChatGPT suggests a person travelling in 1929 would usually need a passport to travel from New Zealand to Australia.
I think worth us checking with NZ BDM if John officially changed his name.
Not sure if there was any likely way of obtaining a passport in the name of John Hickisey to travel from NZ to Australia without officially changing name (?)
Before 1949 there was no such thing as NZ or Australian citizenship, we were all just British Subjects. There were no laws around name changes, you could use any name you chose as long as it wasn't in order to commit fraud.
Debra :)
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Hi Natalia
The name John is from the shipping record on Ancestry.
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Is his last address in the UK supposed to be Duarrigle Castle, Cullen?
Debra :)
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That John HICKEY travelling on the Remuera said he was a Farmer. I cannot figure out where had had lived. I guess the ships Purser was just guessing the spelling of some place he had never hear of spoken with a thick accent.
how about the Jno HICKEY on the Tuinui which sailed from Southampton to Wellington on 17 July 1927.
3rd class passengers
Ticket Name Last Address Job age
285 Thos MURPHY Mounteain, Knacknaga Co Cork Labourer 31
286 Jno HICKEY do do 18
do Timothy do do do 24
If Kate McGRATH had travelled to London after 1901 and returned to Ireland before 1911 then that would explain why we have been unable to pin her down.
PS looking on a map Mounteain is just north of Knocknagree in north west Cork near to the border with Kerry.
PPS - but that age for John wouls give his birth about 1909 which is too far out. There were an awful lot of HICKEYs in Ireland.