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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Beerman on Sunday 31 August 25 14:39 BST (UK)
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He was my maternal grandfather, 23/09/1896 to 14/04/1965, married Mary Ann Falconer Berston on 8th May, 1920, their home in the East End of Sunderland. My father said he was awarded the DCM for
carrying an officer named Charrington from No-mans Land. During his service he was gassed and made Lance Corporal. He pawned his medals and had no record of their award.
Research found little of merit and was ended, until recent reading uncovered a "Rollie" (Harold Victor Spencer) Charrington during WWII in Greece and Crete, who was awarded the MC in France and fitting the person my grandfather had described. This spurred another attempt which has found nothing more, but wonder if anyone might have something that I might add to my grandfather's profile?
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If you are referring to Brigadier Harold Vincent (not Victor) Spencer Charrington, you may find an account of him being rescued on the battlefield in the papers at the National Army Museum (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/N13534162) and/or The Liddell Hart Centre for Military Archives, at King's College London (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/N13785891).
TNA holds Spencer Charrington's record of service file but it doesn't contain any mention of being wounded during WW1 or why he was awarded the MC.
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The first thing would be to apply for his service records.
Would you know his service number or have you already done that?
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The first thing would be to apply for his service records.
Would you know his service number or have you already done that?
I don't think there's any evidence that he served on after 1920 so his service record is probably among those that didn't survive the fire in WW2. There are dozens of records which have survived, for plain John Butler and over 600 hundred if you include the medal cards etc but there is no chance of whittling them down to short list based on just the information we have about him. There is no obvious London Gazette entry for his DCM.
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Thanks for the replies, and yes, his name should have been Vincent.
From memory my initial searches brought up his original attestation, one had his name recorded as "Cass-Butler", but I can't recall any service number being found.
He did serve after 1920 in 7th Batt DLI (Defence Corps) with service number 586 recorded with War Office stamp dated 27 APR 1921 as record of payment of 2/7, on and for a Death Certificate for his first son.
There is a Pension Record with Service Number of S/3580.
How might I find a copy of Brigadier HVS Charrington's account?
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His pension card also states that he was alias James Laverick
A search for a James Laverick in the Rifle Brigade finds S/13580 of the 16th Battalion, Rifle Brigade.
A search of the citations for the Distinguished Conduct Medal for both John Butler and James Laverick has come up with nothing.
The award of a DCM would normally be reported in a local newspaper, searches of newspapers for both Durham and Newcastle have drawn a blank.
Snippet images courtesy of Fold3 and Ancestry
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AllanUK, thanks for that.
What reasons might there have been to have an alias? It also suggests his story could have been fictious. Maybe this matter is best left unanswered.
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How might I find a copy of Brigadier HVS Charrington's account?
Here's a link to the National Army Museum holdings: Memoir: With the XII Royal Lancers in 1914; written by Brig Charrington (https://collection.nam.ac.uk/inventory/objects/results.php?shortDescription=&event=&campaign=&associatedName=Charrington&unit=12th+Lancers&placeNotes=&productionNotes=&keyword=&otArc=1&ot%5B%5D=6&ot%5B%5D=8&ot%5B%5D=10&ot%5B%5D=12&ot%5B%5D=13&otArt=1&ot%5B%5D=1&ot%5B%5D=39&ot%5B%5D=14&ot%5B%5D=15&ot%5B%5D=16&ot%5B%5D=17&ot%5B%5D=18&ot%5B%5D=19&otBmu=1&ot%5B%5D=21&ot%5B%5D=20&ot%5B%5D=38&ot%5B%5D=23&otEqt=1&ot%5B%5D=26&ot%5B%5D=2&ot%5B%5D=22&ot%5B%5D=27&ot%5B%5D=28&ot%5B%5D=40&ot%5B%5D=29&ot%5B%5D=30&ot%5B%5D=32&otWea=1&ot%5B%5D=24&ot%5B%5D=3&ot%5B%5D=4&ot%5B%5D=31&otVA=1&ot%5B%5D=25&ot%5B%5D=33&flag=1)
As far as I can tell it hasn't been digitised so you need to either visit in person or contact the Museum staff to make a copy for you.
Visit website (https://www.nam.ac.uk/collections/templer-study-centre)
Telephone: 020 7730 0717
Email: info@nam.ac.uk
Details of his papers in the Liddell Hart collection are here: https://archives.kingscollections.org/index.php/charrington (https://archives.kingscollections.org/index.php/charrington)
Again a visit in person is required or request a copy of the relevant parts. Contact details here: Liddell Hart Centre (https://archives.kingscollections.org/index.php/liddell-hart-centre-for-military-archives)
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Andy J2022, thanks for your help.
A visit is not practical, but your links will surely be used.
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AllanUK, thanks for that.
What reasons might there have been to have an alias? It also suggests his story could have been fictious. Maybe this matter is best left unanswered.
The use of an alias was not uncommon. The reasons for using an alias could be anything ranging from 'running away from family responsibilities' to a soldier that deserted then decided to re-enlist in a different regiment without accepting the punishment for his desertion.
Re his story on being awarded a DCM -- it wouldn't be the first time that a man exaggerated his war experience and awarded a gallantry medal to himself. (thankfully not many!) This could explain his story about pawning the medals.
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The use of an alias was not uncommon. The reasons for using an alias could be anything ranging from 'running away from family responsibilities' to a soldier that deserted then decided to re-enlist in a different regiment without accepting the punishment for his desertion.
Re his story on being awarded a DCM -- it wouldn't be the first time that a man exaggerated his war experience and awarded a gallantry medal to himself. (thankfully not many!) This could explain his story about pawning the medals.
After reading more I see that, but my puzzlement remains. Being eighty years old, I knew the man, a wreck of a person after gassing in WWI, or so it was said, his wife dying 15 years prior to his demise, potentially from looking after him.
Jack was the only living son of Irish immigrants when WWI began, and previously I had found his attestations to join the Army, but nothing other, so gave up. When suddenly finding a "Rollie" Charrington with matching personality, my interest was rekindled, but now I can't find those attestations to perhaps discover why he joined with an alias.
My father's side of the family was larger with virtually all seemingly involved one way or another in wars, and sadly several were lost. My father was in Atlantic Convoys with MN and survived, his elder brother in Arctic Convoy with RN and lost. Most said little or nothing about what happened and silence from those lost.
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He is mentioned in Sunderland Daily Echo 5th March 1926 - John Butler, 31 of Stafford Street -charged with stealing 48 tins of Condensed milk. It mentions he has a disability pension as a Soldier. - Jailed for one month
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He is mentioned in Sunderland Daily Echo 5th March 1926 - John Butler, 31 of Stafford Street -charged with stealing 48 tins of Condensed milk. It mentions he has a disability pension as a Soldier. - Jailed for one month
Well that's something my mother didn't tell. Thank you. There's a picture emerging.