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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: rebeccaclaire86 on Friday 29 August 25 22:01 BST (UK)

Title: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: rebeccaclaire86 on Friday 29 August 25 22:01 BST (UK)
I don't know too much about merchant seamen, but I'm curious if anyone could point me towards records regarding men who died at sea?  My ancestor's brother Samuel Cossey was apparently lost at sea at some point after 1845, but I can't find any other record regarding this, aside from what is on his merchant seaman's ticket.  The deaths at sea in the FindMyPast collection only seem to date from the 1870's onwards.  I've tried newspaper articles but haven't found anything obvious on there.

Any ideas of other places I could look?

Thank you in advance :)
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: Jebber on Friday 29 August 25 22:34 BST (UK)
Found on Findmypast. Searching with Just his name  and dates covering 1850-1899

Suffolk Cronicle February 9th 1861.
Bungay 8th.

 Just a brief account.

There is a report of a Samuel Cossey a waterman of this town missing from Yarmouth where he had gone with his wherry. Doubts were concerned about his fate. Then a body was picked up near the junction or the Yare and Bure rivers. The contents of his pockets confirmed it was him, it was believed to have been an accident

I don’t know if this is your man.

Less is often more when searching on Findmypast, especially the newspapers. I usually just put in a name and date range then skim through the results and pick out the most likely looking entries.
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: rebeccaclaire86 on Thursday 11 September 25 14:42 BST (UK)
Thanks for replying to this - I don't believe this is the same man as after a little digging I found his marriage certificate and the father's name is different (Samuel)

I believe my Samuel died before 1853 as his brother Henry emigrated to New Zealand, and apparently descendants on that side of the family knew there had been a brother lost at sea.  Henry was illiterate, so unlikely to have corresponded with family after his emigration.

Really struggling to find any clear set of records of men lost at sea for this time period currently!
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: osprey on Thursday 11 September 25 19:47 BST (UK)
That will be because registration of merchant navy deaths started in 1854.

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/birth-marriage-death-sea-or-abroad/

Local papers may be your best bet.

Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: ShaunJ on Thursday 11 September 25 20:15 BST (UK)
The record states that he was lost on H M Ship "Queen" so it seems likely that he was in the Royal Navy at the time of his death. But I can't see a Royal Navy record for him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Queen_(1839)
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: rebeccaclaire86 on Thursday 11 September 25 20:40 BST (UK)
Thank you - that does make sense if there was no central record.

I'm puzzled by the HM Ship Queen reference also, as the card is a Merchant Navy one; even if he had joined the Royal Navy his death wouldn't be recorded on the Merchant Navy record in that instance.  I presume there must have been another ship with the same name?  But surely a non-navy ship wouldn't have had the 'HM' prefix?
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 12 September 25 14:09 BST (UK)
The record states that he was lost on H M Ship "Queen"

There's something before that? And below.
Is it possible it means his ticket was lost on HM Ship Queen?
And he was given a new one, number 303, 979, or whatever that other number is :-\
I don't have access at the moment to browse the images.

Probably me being silly!
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: PatLac on Friday 12 September 25 15:38 BST (UK)
Were Sarah and William his parents? If yes, this could be him.

Samuel Cossey
Military • England, Navy Allotment Records, 1795-1850


Samuel Cossey person details
Name   Samuel Cossey
Sex   Male
Military Rank   Ordinary Seaman
Relative's Name   Sarah
Relative's Relationship to the Head of the Household   Mother
Event Type   Military Service
Event Date   1847
Event Place   England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original)   England
Source Description   Declaration lists of allotments
Entry Number   763
Series Number   ADM 27/101
Affiliate Name   The National Archives
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: Roobarb on Friday 12 September 25 16:53 BST (UK)
The record states that he was lost on H M Ship "Queen"

There's something before that? And below.
Is it possible it means his ticket was lost on HM Ship Queen?
And he was given a new one, number 303, 979, or whatever that other number is :-\
I don't have access at the moment to browse the images.

Probably me being silly!

I would agree that it probably means his ticket was lost as the word above the entry appears to be 'Cancelled'.
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: rebeccaclaire86 on Friday 12 September 25 17:38 BST (UK)
What would be the meaning of the ticket being cancelled? I googled but didn’t get a clear answer; I must admit I don’t know much about merchant navy records at all.

Interesting that he might have been issued a new number, I’ll have a look at that later, thank you for the suggestion!

The navy record isn’t him, but thank you. His parents were William Cossey and Isabel nee Moore who lived in Ditchingham and Kirby Cane in Norfolk.
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: PatLac on Friday 12 September 25 18:19 BST (UK)
What would be the meaning of the ticket being cancelled? I googled but didn’t get a clear answer; I must admit I don’t know much about merchant navy records at all.

Interesting that he might have been issued a new number, I’ll have a look at that later, thank you for the suggestion!

The navy record isn’t him, but thank you. His parents were William Cossey and Isabel nee Moore who lived in Ditchingham and Kirby Cane in Norfolk.

I have come acrross this record, hence my previous post. Maybe her name was Isabel Sarah or Sarah Isabel ? Or maybe they were sisters and William remarried?

Sarah Moore
Mentioned in the Record of Samuel Cossey (Sarah Moore's Son)

Sarah Moore person details
Name   Sarah Moore
Sex   F
Sarah Moore's Spouses and Children


Samuel Cossey   Son   M         
Samuel Cossey person details
Name   Samuel Cossey
Sex   Male
Father's Name   William Cossey
Father's Sex   Male
Mother's Name   Sarah Moore
Mother's Sex   Female
Event Type   Christening
Event Date   23 Sep 1818
Event Place   Beccles, Suffolk, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original)   Beccles, Suffolk, England

Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: rebeccaclaire86 on Friday 12 September 25 19:04 BST (UK)
A transcription error must have crept in somewhere, the images are on Ancestry for Suffolk now and it’s definitely Isabel! So I suspect that’s another man. Cossey wasn’t an uncommon name in that region.
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: BushInn1746 on Friday 12 September 25 19:55 BST (UK)
Interesting that there was also another, a Henry Cossey, only one No. of Register Ticket, number away (different).

I had this before (one Ticket Number away/different) and both had gone together on the same date and had known each other, although Henry Cossey says he was born elsewhere, a relative perhaps?

Mark
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: PatLac on Friday 12 September 25 21:12 BST (UK)
His brother?

"SAMUEL COSSEY, b. 1818, Kirby Cane (Source: PA.); d. at sea (Source: PA.). Notes for SAMUEL COSSEY: Went to sea with brother Henry but died within 3 months PA."

The webpage is no longer available unfortunately.

http://indigo.ie/~stevenso/Cossey/5_generations
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: BushInn1746 on Friday 12 September 25 21:45 BST (UK)

The navy record isn’t him, but thank you. His parents were William Cossey and Isabel nee Moore who lived in Ditchingham and Kirby Cane in Norfolk.

His brother?

"SAMUEL COSSEY, b. 1818, Kirby Cane (Source: PA.); d. at sea (Source: PA.). Notes for SAMUEL COSSEY: Went to sea with brother Henry but died within 3 months PA."

The webpage is no longer available unfortunately.

http://indigo.ie/~stevenso/Cossey/5_generations


The website was live circa 4th June 2002 to 11th September 2005 and was crawled (link below to website saved in 2005) the part said:-

Children of WILLIAM COSSEY and ISABELLE MOORE are:

i. ELIZABETH4 COSSEY, b. 1813, Beccles (Source: PA.); d. 1848, Kirby Cane (Source: PA.); m. ROBERT CROWFOOT, 1838, Kirby Cane (Source: PA.).

More About ELIZABETH COSSEY:

Christening: June 18, 1813, Beccles

23. ii. WILLIAM COSSEY, b. 1815, Beccles; d. 1901, Kirby Cane.

24. iii. HENRY COSSEY, b. 1827, Kirby Cane; d. 1906, Dunedin NZ.

iv. RICHARD COSSEY, b. 1809, Beccles (Source: PA.); d. 1812, Beccles (Source: PA.).

v. SAMUEL COSSEY, b. 1818, Kirby Cane (Source: PA.); d. at sea (Source: PA.).

Notes for SAMUEL COSSEY:

Went to sea with brother Henry but died within 3 months PA

vi. STEPHAN COSSEY, b. 1822, Kirby Cane (Source: PA.); d. 1823, Kirby Cane (Source: PA.).

vii. HENRY COSSEY, b. 1824, Kirby Cane (Source: PA.); d. 1828, Kirby Cane (Source: PA.).


Source:
PA can be found on the 'Home' page

 ----------------------------------------------------------

The website was crawled and 24 captures made and here is an archived site reference:-

Capture on 26th May 2005

https://web.archive.org/web/20050526080340/http://indigo.ie:80/~stevenso/Cossey/5_generations.htm

Mark
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: Roobarb on Friday 12 September 25 21:53 BST (UK)
What would be the meaning of the ticket being cancelled? I googled but didn’t get a clear answer; I must admit I don’t know much about merchant navy records at all.

Interesting that he might have been issued a new number, I’ll have a look at that later, thank you for the suggestion!

The navy record isn’t him, but thank you. His parents were William Cossey and Isabel nee Moore who lived in Ditchingham and Kirby Cane in Norfolk.

Some years ago I spent rather a long time at TNA researching my own merchant navy ancestor. I'm a bit rusty on it now but I know that he had several ticket numbers in the period of time I was researching. Not sure why that was, he did jump ship in Quebec so perhaps he didn't want to admit to being the same person. Apparently it was a common occurrence for seamen to be poached for another ship. To this day I haven't found out how he returned but I do have copies of his records after that with a different ticket number.

This might not be any help to you but don't discount the possibility of other records in addition to the one you have.
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: rebeccaclaire86 on Saturday 13 September 25 08:32 BST (UK)
Thanks again for the replies!

Yes Henry was his brother - the one who emigrated to New Zealand. I’ve seen that website before and corresponded with the lady who ran it quite a few years ago. It seems the descendants of Henry’s New Zealand branch believed that Samuel died at sea - which is why I thought his death likely predated the emigration.

Haven’t had a chance to look at the tickets on FindMyPast yet but that’s this afternoons job!
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 13 September 25 14:34 BST (UK)
Well, 303,979 is one of the - I guess many - ticket numbers in BT113 with no details written up at all :(
Title: Re: Merchant Seaman lost at sea
Post by: rebeccaclaire86 on Saturday 13 September 25 14:57 BST (UK)
Thank you for finding it - I had a hunt through the Find My Past records but I couldn't find it, so that's really helpful.  Shame there's nothing on it though!