RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (North Riding) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Cockneyrebel on Monday 25 August 25 13:17 BST (UK)
-
Another mystery-the above married my 3rd cousin, 1R, Florence (b 15/12/1905) but by 1939 Register he was absent and Florence was recorded as married but was living with a Thomas Nesbitt born 28 Apr 1880 so much so that some of her children were recorded as Nesbitt?
I know it's a fairly common surname but wonder when and where John was born and what happened to him?
Cr
-
Could he have been in the Armed forces? Although Florence is recorded as being married, that doesn't necessarily mean she was married to Thomas Nesbitt. There is a 25 year age gap between them, not impossible of course but less likely I would think.
This is all supposition but could Thomas be a family member and the children listed as Nesbitt were Thomas' children but not hers? Do you know Florence's maiden name? Or perhaps he was her employer and she was a live in carer for the children.
-
so much so that some of her children were recorded as Nesbitt?
Have you checked the birth registrations of those children?
The little girl is registered with both surnames and Blake mothers name
The little boy is registered with both surnames and Blake mothers name
The 1926 marriage to John Armstrong would reveal more about him.
I don't suppose he could be Thomas Nesbitt as well could he :-\
Do you know who the older people are whose names are hidden?
-
Do you have the 1926 marriage cert which may give John's age but should also give his occupation plus his fathers details, You may be able to find him on the 1921 census with that info
-
A tree on Ancestry has John Armstrong b 1900 Middlesborough but no evidence to support it.
Suspect they have assumed he is the one on the 1921 census but haven't checked as he married Miriam Houghton in 1927 Rotherham
-
Of the 6 children born between 1926 & 1939, only 3 had the name Nesbitt, from 1936 onwards. The 3 born before 1936 were all Armstrong only; the last one born 1933.
-
Thomas Nesbitt was b Co Monaghan & died 1940. Parents William Andrew & Roseanna possibly nee Tierney
-
Looks like I'll have to buy the marriage certificate as there is no easier answer.
Cr
-
Electoral registers (on ancestry) have
1935
1 Baker Street
Thomas Nesbitt
Florence Armstrong
May Conley
Thomas and Florence there till 1938.
1939
72 Grange Road West
Thomas Nesbitt
Florence Armstrong
Is this Thomas? :-\
Middlesbrough Standard, 20 May 1933
Objected to Wife's Friends
Sarah Nesbitt, the wife of a Grangetown smelter, was granted a separation order by which her husband Thomas Nesbitt, was ordered to pay her £2 per week for the maintenance of herself and two children. It was stated that Nesbitt earned £8 10s. per week, although at the present he was only working one week in two. When he was in regular employment he told the court that he gave his wife £6 or £7 per week for household expenses. He objected though to her present ‘‘friends” in Grangetown, but would be quite willing to go back to her if she would get away from them.
Is Sarah the lady at 52 Vickers Steet, Eston with two probable sons in the 1939 Register? No husband around.
Sarah Nesbitt, originally said born 14 Mar 1881 (can't read what it is altered to), Married, Unpaid Housework
Thomas Nesbitt was b Co Monaghan & died 1940
Gets interesting here!
Thomas Nesbitt death registered in Cleveland (covers Eston), not Middlesbrough
Dec 1940 Cleveland 9d 919
Nesbitt, Thomas
Age 60
Evening Gazette, 18 Nov 1940
R.I.P. NESBITT.—On November 16th, Thomas, beloved husband of Sarah Nesbitt. Cortege leaves 52, Vickers-street, Grangetown, Tuesday, 9.45 a.m., for Requiem Mass in St.Mary's Church. Interment at Eston Cemetery. Friends please accept this (the only) intimation.
-
Electoral registers (on ancestry)
I didn't see John and Florence Armstrong on those Middlesbrough electoral registers.
There is a pair with the same names, but they are not the right ones at all (appearing on the wrong dates!)
An idea...what if they were in Eston? And Florence met Thomas Nesbitt there?
Of the few John Armstongs in Eston in 1939, one may be a possibilty.
At 5 West Street.
Margaret Armstrong, born 1870, Widowed
Gweneth M Armstrong (later Chinery), born 1906, Single
Richard J Armstrong, born ??, Single
John Armstrong, born 16 Apr 1905, Married, Stocktaker Section Mill ??
-
In for a penny, in for a pound!
Going back to 1921, and in High Street, Eston.
John Armstrong, age 16 years and 2 months, born Yorkshire Eston, Clerk Steel + Ironworks
Father is here and he is Thos Wm Armstrong, 57, Drapers Assistant
Mum Margaret and sister Gweneth M.
Richd J Armstrong is with them, 32 yrs 9 months, turns out he was a nephew of Thomas.
-
An idea...what if they were in Eston? And Florence met Thomas Nesbitt there?
Just checking, Eston was in Middlesbrough RD between 1875 and 1934. So OK for the Armstrong-Blake births.
Then it was very briefly in Guisborough RD, which was abolished in 1936, and then in Cleveland RD.
Was Grangetown part of Eston?
-
John Armstrong married Florence Blake Q2 1926 Middlesbrough
This is interesting...
Tees Valley Indexes
https://www.teesvalley-indexes.co.uk/index.php?id=1
Marriages
1926
John Armstrong + Florence Blake
Ref: R-X231M-1-0-19
Record at Redcar & Cleveland Register Office
There is another John Armstrong marriage in 1926 on there, to Margaret Readman.
That one says record at Middlesbrough Register Office.
-
Have sent for marriage cert from GRO.
Cr
-
Well you now have a suggestion (or guess!) for John, we will see if it's him or not.
Where was Florence Blake in 1921?
What happened to her?
-
I don't know where she was in 1921.
Cr
-
Is she the Florence Blake at Cleveland Lodge, Great Ayton, Yorkshire in 1921? :-\
A servant, age 15 years 6 months. Birthplace seems to say Dinsdale nr Crook Durham.
The family is that of John Pease Fry, Baronet, Chairman + MD of Colliery something!
Here is his photographic portrait
https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp80229/sir-john-pease-fry-2nd-bt
Do let us know how you get on with that marriage certificate.
-
John Armstrong married Florence Blake Q2 1926 Middlesbrough
This is interesting...
Tees Valley Indexes
https://www.teesvalley-indexes.co.uk/index.php?id=1
Marriages
1926
John Armstrong + Florence Blake
Ref: R-X231M-1-0-19
Record at Redcar & Cleveland Register Office
There is another John Armstrong marriage in 1926 on there, to Margaret Readman.
That one says record at Middlesbrough Register Office.
[/b][/color]
They appear together in 1939, John's dob 26.12. 1901
SS
-
The below appear with Sarah Nesbitt in war register.
William A(Andrew) Nesbitt 06 Apr 1914 Male Steelworks Bricklayers Labourer (1)
Thomas Nesbitt 21 Feb 1916 Male Steelworks Labourer (2)
Gertrude Aben (Nesbitt) 11 Jul 1919 Female Domestic Worker (3)
1 died 26th January 1959 Middlesborough
2 died 8th June 1967 Middlesborough
3 died 1984 as Gertrude Patton, Central Cleveland.
Cannot find any births for any of them?
SS
-
I can't find them in 1939 (on Ancestry)
-
The below appear with Sarah Nesbitt in war register.
William A(Andrew) Nesbitt 06 Apr 1914 Male Steelworks Bricklayers Labourer (1)
Thomas Nesbitt 21 Feb 1916 Male Steelworks Labourer (2)
Gertrude Aben (Nesbitt) 11 Jul 1919 Female Domestic Worker (3)
1 died 26th January 1959 Middlesborough
2 died 8th June 1967 Middlesborough
3 died 1984 as Gertrude Patton, Central Cleveland.
Cannot find any births for any of them?
A public tree has this
William Andrew Nesbitt
Birth 1914 Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Died 26 Jan 1959 Middlesbrough
Parents Thomas Nesbitt & Sarah Quinn ( no details on parents)
SP has this birth entry
NESBITT WILLIAM ANDREW mmn QUINN 1914 Dalziel
Marriage Thomas Nesbitt to Sarah Quinn Year 1903 RD Gorbals
-
Well found Ladyhawk, also Thomas & Gertrude born in Glasgow. They also had another son John Joseph Gerald Nesbitt 1917, died 1979 Eston, and buried Eston.
added they had a lot more kids between 1904-14
SS
-
Need to know about John Armstrong.
Cr
-
Have sent for marriage cert from GRO.
Cr
You will know more hopefully when it arrives.
SS
-
Info only, dob as per 1939 register
Death
John Armstrong
16 Apr 1905
Jan 1978
Jan-Feb-Mar
Cleveland
Cleveland
SS
-
so much so that some of her children were recorded as Nesbitt?
Have you checked the birth registrations of those children?
The little girl is registered with both surnames and Blake mothers name
The little boy is registered with both surnames and Blake mothers name
All the Armstrong - Blake births were registered in Middlesbrough RD.
But, as I said, there were boundary changes in the mid 1930's, including for Eston (which was taken out)
Tees Valley Indexes have the first three births, and say the records are held at Redcar & Cleveland Register Office.
So presumably John and Florence were not actually living in Middlesbrough itself, as evidenced by their absence from the electoral registers there. Possibly then in in Eston / Grangetown.
For the later births indexed by the GRO under both Armstrong and Nesbitt, the TV indexes have them only as Nesbitt, and say that the records are held at Middlesbrough Register Office.
Suggesting that when Thomas Nesbitt and Florence Blake got together they moved (possibly not very far!) into Middlesbrough, as evidenced by them being on the electoral registers there and as per the 1939 Register.
-
Is she the Florence Blake at Cleveland Lodge, Great Ayton, Yorkshire in 1921? :-\
A servant, age 15 years 6 months. Birthplace seems to say Dinsdale nr Crook Durham
Is this her, Rebel?
-
Florence (b 15/12/1905)
There's a death registration in 1992 which has the right date of birth, but it's in Lancashire :-\
1992, Chorley 40 1312
Florence Armstrong
Born 15 Dec 1905
-
Florence (b 15/12/1905)
There's a death registration in 1992 which has the right date of birth, but it's in Lancashire :-\
1992, Chorley 40 1312
Florence Armstrong
Born 15 Dec 1905
Newspaper article Thursday 27th February 1992 records dearly loved mother of Joyce, Alma, Barbara, Eileen, Tom & David
SS
-
Wondering if Florence was pregnant when Thomas Nesbitt died in 1940.
Births Jun 1941 (Female)
Armstrong ****** N Blake Middlesbro' 9d 1187--went on to marry in 1962.
Deaths Dec 1940
Nesbitt Thomas 60 Cleveland 9d 919
SS
-
Florence (b 15/12/1905)
There's a death registration in 1992 which has the right date of birth, but it's in Lancashire :-\
1992, Chorley 40 1312
Florence Armstrong
Born 15 Dec 1905
Newspaper article Thursday 27th February 1992 records dearly loved mother of Joyce, Alma, Barbara, Eileen, Tom & David
Wondering if Florence was pregnant when Thomas Nesbitt died in 1940.
Births Jun 1941 (Female)
Armstrong ****** N Blake Middlesbro' 9d 1187--went on to marry in 1962.
Deaths Dec 1940
Nesbitt Thomas 60 Cleveland 9d 919
For info. there is a Public tree with the 1941 birth (picture) - link below for those that have Anc*y
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01typ/ - some info.
Florence A M Blake - N (middle name of dau)
born 15 Dec 1905 d1992 Chorely
parents named as
John Edward Blake 1863-1929
Mary Jane nee Tindale 1873-1923
Sadly no info. on 1926 marriage to John Armstrong other than the registration details
Spouse Thomas Nesbitt
-
Awaiting marriage cert.
Cr
-
Awaiting marriage cert.
To increase the anticipation, I'll bet 10p that John's father is Thomas William Armstrong (who married Margaret Bird in 1894?)
-
johnwarrn you were correct in that his father was Thomas William deceased at the time of his marriage to Florence, he is recorded as aged 20.
Cr
-
Thanks for telling us, Cr.
Glad you have it sorted.
John
-
Your 10p is safe for another week jonwarrn
SS
-
Strange that Joh was living with his widowed mother in 1939, recorded as married and Florence was with Thomas Nesbitt? I guess John must have separated from Florence before 1939?
Cr
-
Softly where did you find the newspaper article with Florence's obituary?
Cr