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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cavan => Topic started by: jamesm113 on Sunday 24 August 25 06:26 BST (UK)
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In case anyone has FS, here's the link with sources, etc: https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/MHJR-D16
Bridget Donohoe, born 19 April 1846 in Feugh Bishops.
Marries William Maguire 12 June 1868 at Saint Mary's Staghall
Moves to Drummullagh, has 7 kids with William at Drummullagh
William dies Dec 1879, with an 8th kid on the way.
Son Terence dies, 17 Oct 1880, still in Drummullagh
Mother Bridget dies, 11 July 1898, Bridget Maguire listed as informant and residing back in Feugh Bishops.
Father Patrick dies, 25 Jan 1900, Bridget Maguire listed as informant and still residing in Feugh Bishops
Bridget Maguire Inherients £49 22 May 1900
After this, I cannot find anything on her. No death record, no 1901 census record.
Any help tracking her down would be appreciated. Thanks!
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I gather OP may descend from a son who emigrated to the US?
When someone "disppappears" like that the answer is usually one of two possibilities:
- Died, or
- Emigrated.
As she already had family in the US, have you looked in the US?
Were there children still in Ireland - did they also disappear?
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That's correct. Her son, my ancestor, emigrated to the US at some point between 1889 and 1898. I've had very limited luck tracing her children or siblings in the US. I've traced 2 of her other children to NYC as well. I have not traced any of her children.
Tracing common names in NYC is a nightmare.
You think it's likely she took her £49 inheritance and hopped on the next ship to the US and missed the 1901 census?
If she died, I would expect to find a matching death record... Is there a potential it wasn't recorded, even after 1900?
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You think it's likely she took her £49 inheritance and hopped on the next ship to the US and missed the 1901 census?
If she died, I would expect to find a matching death record... Is there a potential it wasn't recorded, even after 1900?
If she had multiple children in the US, and she was a widow, then I think it quite possible that she emigrated.
Is it any easier to use US immigration records if you know other family members who might have travelled with her?
It is entirely possible for a death to go unregistered after 1900. For example, I have a great-g-grandmother who is neither in the 1901 census, nor death registration - but died 1907, in Ireland.
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Here is a link for the townland of Feugh (Bishops).
https://www.townlands.ie/ga/cavan/loughtee-lower/drumlane/milltown/feugh-bishops/ (https://www.townlands.ie/ga/cavan/loughtee-lower/drumlane/milltown/feugh-bishops/)
It notes that Feugh is also known as Drumalla.
Drummullagh is a neighboring townland of Feugh (Bishops).
https://www.townlands.ie/ga/cavan/loughtee-lower/drumlane/milltown/drummullagh/#borders (https://www.townlands.ie/ga/cavan/loughtee-lower/drumlane/milltown/drummullagh/#borders)
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Pat Donohoe in 1833 Tythe Valuation of Feugh (Bishops)
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587434/004587434_00277.pdf (http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587434/004587434_00277.pdf)
JAMES Maguire in 1833 tythe valuation of Drummullagh - new family name?
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587434/004587434_00268.pdf (http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587434/004587434_00268.pdf)
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Unfortunately, I haven't found any church burial records. RootsIreland does not have any: https://www.rootsireland.ie/cavan-genealogy/cavan-roman-catholic-records/
I found an ship arrival record for Bridget McGuire (spelled different), age 52, from Cavan in May 1901. Even listed as a widow. Interesting she was traveling with another Bridget McGuire, age 23, also from Cavan.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TH-LSRN-9?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJFK7-T6P&action=view&cc=1368704&lang=en&groupId=
Also, a possible detention: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TH-LSRP-L?view=fullText&keywords=Bridget%2CMcGuire%20Bridget&lang=en&groupId=
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Pat Donohoe in 1833 Tythe Valuation of Feugh (Bishops)
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587434/004587434_00277.pdf (http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587434/004587434_00277.pdf)
JAMES Maguire in 1833 tythe valuation of Drummullagh - new family name?
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587434/004587434_00268.pdf (http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587434/004587434_00268.pdf)
Pretty likely that Pat was Bridget's father.
That James has been a bit of a mystery to me. Bridget Donohoe's husband, William, was born in Creeny. After their marriage, I believe they moved to Drummullagh and started their family. I cannot find any Maguires in Drummullagh in the Griffith Valuation books.
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Pretty likely that Pat was Bridget's father.
That James has been a bit of a mystery to me. Bridget Donohoe's husband, William, was born in Creeny. After their marriage, I believe they moved to Drummullagh and started their family. I cannot find any Maguires in Drummullagh in the Griffith Valuation books.
What was William's occupation on the chidren's birth registrations? GV for Cavan was published 1857, so before William would have appeared.
It is often possible to figure out who had inherited or was occupying the properties listed in GV, by comparison with names and land area in the tythe valuation. But you have to allow for the fact that tythe land area is almost always given in Irish acres, while GV is in English acres.
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William was a farmer on all the civil records I've found.
The person I know to be his father (John), was a farmer in Creeny as well.
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Link for Creeny townland
https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/loughtee-lower/drumlane/milltown/creeny/ (https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/loughtee-lower/drumlane/milltown/creeny/)
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William was a farmer on all the civil records I've found.
The person I know to be his father (John), was a farmer in Creeny as well.
So William had to get a farm in Drummullagh.
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It is often possible to figure out who had inherited or was occupying the properties listed in GV, by comparison with names and land area in the tythe valuation. But you have to allow for the fact that tythe land area is almost always given in Irish acres, while GV is in English acres.
Hmm, staring at the applotment book, I'm not sure what to make of the columns and am having trouble decoding all the values.
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If you need to convert acres from one form to another see this post in IRELAND RESOURCES-
There are several different systems of land measurement in place in Ireland at various times.
Statute acre (or English acre) = 4840 square yards
Cunningham acre = 6250 square yards
A Scottish measurement. Cunningham acres need to be multiplied by 1.29 to convert them to English, statute acres.
www.clancunningham.org/photos/Settlement6.html
Irish acre = 7840 square yards
www.sizes.com/units/irish_acre.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre_(Irish)
conversion table: www.convertcenter.com/convertunit.aspx/area/irish_acre/all/56/0/1
This may explain the differences in the acreage of a farm which seems to have changed in size.
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Hmm, staring at the applotment book, I'm not sure what to make of the columns and am having trouble decoding all the values.
It is relatively straightforward, once you know the units.
The first three columns are the valuator's estimation of the relative quality of different portions of land - 1st, 2nd and 3rd class land. The fourth colums is for the area of any included roads, while the 5th column is the total area of each holding. The units used for land area seem to cause some confusion these days - it is in A-R-P, that is Acres, Roods and Perches. There being 40 perches in a rood, and 4 roods in an acre. So there are 160 perches in in acre.
The 5th, 6th and 7th columns are the actual tythe valuation of each lot as a monetary value
The 5th column being how much was due per annum to the vicar
The 6th column how much was due to the lay impropiator, and
The 7th column is the total amount due as tythe from that holding.
These columns are in £-s-d (pronounced LSD).
Where £ is pounds, s is shillings, and d is pence.
There were 12 pennies in a shilling, and 20 shillings in a pound. So 240 pennies in a pound.
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To be honest, none of the holdings up match fairly well.
With the conversion, there was 121.96 english acres in the tithe books and 125.21 english acres in GV for the whole townland. I assume they measured differently, so that seems close enough.
Laurence Reilly Widow had 18.94 in the Tithe books and Laurence Reilly (perhaps a son) had 20.125 in GV. This one matches up the best.
John Reily had 9.95 in the tithe books, can't find a match in GV - probably redistributed
Philip Reilly had 20.1 in the tithe books, but only 10.2 in combined holds in GV
John Lynch Widow had 20.5 in the tithe books, Bernard Lynch 30.3
John Fitzpatrick had 37.4 in the tithe books. Terence had 15, Peter had 39, James had 7 in GV
James Maguire had 15.19 in the tithe books, but no Maguires were in the GV - probably redistributed land?
Regardless, I don't have any evidence that James Maguire was a relative - there were hundreds of Maguires in Cavan at the time.
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To be honest, none of the holdings up match fairly well.
With the conversion, there was 121.96 english acres in the tithe books and 125.21 english acres in GV for the whole townland. I assume they measured differently, so that seems close enough.
Laurence Reilly Widow had 18.94 in the Tithe books and Laurence Reilly (perhaps a son) had 20.125 in GV. This one matches up the best.
John Reily had 9.95 in the tithe books, can't find a match in GV - probably redistributed
Philip Reilly had 20.1 in the tithe books, but only 10.2 in combined holds in GV
John Lynch Widow had 20.5 in the tithe books, Bernard Lynch 30.3
John Fitzpatrick had 37.4 in the tithe books. Terence had 15, Peter had 39, James had 7 in GV
James Maguire had 15.19 in the tithe books, but no Maguires were in the GV - probably redistributed land?
Regardless, I don't have any evidence that James Maguire was a relative - there were hundreds of Maguires in Cavan at the time.
There are several books on the history of mapping and surveying in Ireland. The difference in area between tythe and Griffiths surveys is typically up to 5%, so 122 versus 125 acres for the total area of the townland is well within the expected difference, at just 2.6%.
I think there is an excellent match between the holding of James Maguire in the tythe survey, 15 acres, and Terence FitzPatrick in GV - also 15 acres. I would conclude that Terence obtained what had been James' farm. What would be interesting is what farm William Maguire obtained. That can be determined from the cancelled rates (valuation) books, available on FamilySearch.
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Sorry, haven't explored these records much.
Do you mean the valution books, 1829-1850? https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/276305
Or the Ireland, Valuation office books, 1831-1856:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=Q6F7-YX6%3A1069019303%2C1069047253%3Fcc%3D2329951&cc=2329951
Or Simply the valuation books?
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/1149346
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Wait, I think I found them. These are the books you are talking about? https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/revision-books.html
If so: https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/141209 page 2, but in the Family History library in Utah only.
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Wait, I think I found them. These are the books you are talking about? https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/revision-books.html
If so: https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/141209 page 2, but in the Family History library in Utah only.
Yes, those are the ones.
They were peviously available on microfilm at LDS Family History Centers (FHC) - how I used them.
A few years ago they were available online at LDS FHC - is that no longer so?
Also Dublin of course.
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Looks like they are only on microfilm now - not online.
Utah is very far away from me, but an order of magnitude closer than Dublin.
Perhaps one day
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Looks like they are only on microfilm now - not online.
Utah is very far away from me, but an order of magnitude closer than Dublin.
It looks like you haven't read through the entire page-
"All microfilms have been digitized and microfiche is currently being digitized." and "You may need to be in a FamilySearch Center or the FamilySearch Library to access digital images from microfilms and microfiche. Some may also require that you log in to your FamilySearch account."
I would contact your nearest LDS library and clarify this but it may be that you can view them not too far from where you live.
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I'm seeing the reel icon - see attachment. Unfortunately, in my experience, that means the Family History Library in Salt Lake city only. When there's triangle ! icon (see other attachment), that means it can be viewed in the Family search center.
That said, my local family search center is closed all of August, and normally only open Wednesday afternoons. I'll try to make it in next time it's open.
In the meantime, are there any other ideas on how to track down Bridget?
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If this were a civil case, I would have to say that the balance of probability is that she emigrated to the US.
The other line of attack would be to try and find family graves in Ireland, and see if there is a memorial mentioning her. Could take a look on FindAGrave, etc, or visit local graveyards in person (many not transcribed).
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The other line of attack would be to try and find family graves in Ireland, and see if there is a memorial mentioning her. Could take a look on FindAGrave, etc, or visit local graveyards in person (many not transcribed).
I actually did visit the graveyard last year and posted a dozens of photos to FindAGrave. Many of the older tombstones were covered in lichen and unreadable. There weren't many Donohoes - while I found other relatives, I only found 3 Donohoes.
I did find that May 1901 ship arrival record for a Bridget McGuire, widow, age 52, from Cavan. Unfortunately it doesn't list a more specific area. Co Cavan is small enough that I could probably attempt to rule out all other Bridget Maguire/McGuires of that age range, but it will be very tedious... I also don't know who that 23 year old Bridget Maguire would be.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TH-LSRN-9?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJFK7-T6P&action=view&cc=1368704&lang=en&groupId=
Also, a detention: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TH-LSRP-L?view=fullText&keywords=Bridget%2CMcGuire%20Bridget&lang=en&groupId=
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I did find that May 1901 ship arrival record for a Bridget McGuire, widow, age 52, from Cavan. Unfortunately it doesn't list a more specific area. Co Cavan is small enough that I could probably attempt to rule out all other Bridget Maguire/McGuires of that age range, but it will be very tedious... I also don't know who that 23 year old Bridget Maguire would be.
And she is a widow, so I think the odds are pretty high that she is yours. But as with much of Irish genealogy, not completely certain. One just has to learn to live with that.
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I wasn't able to pull the revision books in the Family History Center today - only on film in Salt Lake.
I'm also not so sure that 1901 ship arrival is the right Bridget. She was traveling with a daughter Bridget (b 1878) and was released from detention to a daughter Rose (b May 1877). The daughter names do not line up remotely with her known daughters (Mary Anne b 1873, Ellen b 1874, Catherine b 1880)
I found a widowed Bridget McGuire in the 1910 Census at the same address (but different household) in Manhattan as her son James. She is living with two boarders. Interesting enough, she listed she had 8 children, 6 living. I know she had 8 children in Ireland, with one dying before 1910. Her age doesn't quite line up, but it's a census record...
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RJY-XVK?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AM5ZD-8L1&cc=1727033&lang=en&groupId=&action=view