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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: PERKO14 on Thursday 21 August 25 23:24 BST (UK)

Title: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: PERKO14 on Thursday 21 August 25 23:24 BST (UK)
J Thurman is listed on our local war Mermorial in Shepshed, Leicestershire and I have been trying to research him for weeks.   He’s listed as on the 1917 section.    In a local Almanac there is a large section that lists the men of Shepshed and when they joined the war.   It lists J Thurman as being part of the Territorials G Company that left Shepshed with the 5th Battalion in 1914.    I’ve tried the Leicestershire Regiment website, the CWWG
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 22 August 25 12:33 BST (UK)
There is mention of a Private George .... Thurman of Shepshed being killed on 6th June in the Loughborough Echo 15th June 1917 son of Mr & Mrs W Thurman
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: PERKO14 on Friday 22 August 25 13:03 BST (UK)
Hi, yes there are more than one Thurman on the memorial.   But this one is definitely J Thurman
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 22 August 25 13:42 BST (UK)
How do you know that his name is John
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: Kloumann on Friday 22 August 25 14:02 BST (UK)
deleted
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 22 August 25 15:29 BST (UK)
There is mention of a Private George .... Thurman of Shepshed being killed on 6th June in the Loughborough Echo 15th June 1917 son of Mr & Mrs W Thurman

Came to same point as Rosie99 - apart from wrong initial/name - he fits all the other criteria.  :-\ :-\

George Albert Thurman - Birth Place   Shepshed, Leics
Death Date   6 Jun 1917 - Death Place   France and Flanders
Enlistment Place   Shepshed
Rank   Private - Regiment   Leicestershire Regiment - Battalion   1st 5th Battalion
Regimental Number   240290
Type of Casualty   Died of wounds.

Loughborough Echo
Loughborough, Leicestershire
Fri, 15 Jun 1917
Page 3

https://www.newspapers.com/article/loughborough-echo/179455351/

Free BMD only mentions two Thurman deaths in 1917 and they were both infants.  :-\

Sandra

Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 22 August 25 15:40 BST (UK)
J. Thurman appears to have been awarded the D.S.O. according to the entry on FindMyPast

That still did not help me find him  ::)
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 22 August 25 16:03 BST (UK)


J Thurman listed in 1915 on this list............ :-\

https://www.loughboroughecho.net/news/local-news/plea-issued-shepshed-town-council-7743012

Sandra
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: PERKO14 on Friday 22 August 25 16:20 BST (UK)
How do you know that his name is John


He is mentioned with a first name in the imperial war website with those numbers but no other details.
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: ShaunJ on Friday 22 August 25 19:52 BST (UK)
Quote
He is mentioned with a first name in the imperial war website

Which website is that?

Quote
with those numbers but no other details.

What numbers?

Quote
J. Thurman appears to have been awarded the D.S.O. according to the entry on FindMyPast

Does the Shepshed memorial really say J Thurman DSO? That would suggest that he was an officer.
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: PERKO14 on Friday 22 August 25 23:03 BST (UK)


J Thurman listed in 1915 on this list............ :-\

https://www.loughboroughecho.net/news/local-news/plea-issued-

shepshed-town-council-7743012

Sandra




That’s interesting Sandra because I’ve been working off the list that’s on the local councils website that has him dying in 1917.   The men before him were killed around June of that year.  However could this be a clerical error on the councils list and he did die in 1915??

The John I’ve been looking into was listed under two number 20107 Leicestershire regiments and then Labour Corp 403747
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: PERKO14 on Friday 22 August 25 23:09 BST (UK)
Quote
He is mentioned with a first name in the imperial war website

Which website is that?

Quote
with those numbers but no other details.

What numbers?

Quote
J. Thurman appears to have been awarded the D.S.O. according to the entry on FindMyPast

Does the Shepshed memorial really say J Thurman DSO? That would suggest that he was an officer.


The Shepshed memorial just says J Thurman.   The Imperial war museum
Has a entry off a medal card John
Thurman first in the Leicestershire regiment 20107 and then the Labour Corp 403747 which falls in line with with what written in the Shepshed almanac.   However you have now mentioned the possibility of him being an officer.   So im really confused now.
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: ShaunJ on Friday 22 August 25 23:41 BST (UK)
The DSO is listed on this IWM transcription of the Shepshed memorial

https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/name/757719
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: tonepad on Saturday 23 August 25 09:01 BST (UK)
John Thurman Labour Corps 403747 was placed on the Class Z Reserve on 20/3/19.
See his 1914-1915 Star Medal Roll and Medal Index Card.


Tony
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: tonepad on Saturday 23 August 25 09:08 BST (UK)
Does the WW1 Roll of Honour in St Botolph's Church have any additional information for J Thurman?

Tony
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: PERKO14 on Saturday 23 August 25 09:26 BST (UK)
Does the WW1 Roll of Honour in St Botolph's Church have any additional information for J Thurman?

Tony

No he’s not on the one in st botphs church.
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: PERKO14 on Saturday 23 August 25 09:28 BST (UK)
John Thurman Labour Corps 403747 was placed on the Class Z Reserve on 20/3/19.
See his 1914-1915 Star Medal Roll and Medal Index Card.


Thats interesting thanks.  We are just finding it hard to find out who John Thurman is and his family connection to Shepshed.   Also interested in the the DSO



Tony
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: MollyC on Saturday 23 August 25 09:33 BST (UK)
I understood Class Z Reserve was used for people who were deemed to be more useful in a civilian job.  However, was that relevant after the end of the war?

(My great uncle was placed in Class Z because he was a chemist, then directed to work in an explosives factory.  Discharged Dec 1918.)
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 23 August 25 10:08 BST (UK)
I've been trying to find his name on this image if the memorial
https://www.ww1-yorkshires.org.uk/jpg-files/photos-s/shepshed-leics-03.jpg

Comparing it with the transcriptions, this is it between F W Smith and G Walker. Definitely no mention of a DSO, so the IWM and FindMyPast transcriptions are incorrect.


Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: AllanUK on Saturday 23 August 25 11:25 BST (UK)
I spent a far bit of time last evening trying to find a DSO for a Thurman but nothing found.
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 23 August 25 11:49 BST (UK)
Looking at WW1 pension records for Thurman in Shepshed, there are only two families of deceased soldiers to be found: that of George Albert Thurman (died June 1917), and that of John Nahum Elliott (died May 1915)  whose mother Elizabeth Thurman lived in Shepshed.

It seems likely that "J Thurman" on the memorial is an erroneous rendering of G A Thurman who is otherwise not listed.

https://www.loughboroughecho.net/news/local-news/shepshed-war-memorial-name-plea-7711041
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 23 August 25 11:59 BST (UK)
Report of the death of G Thurman of Shepshed:

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/502afc01-ee7b-4672-9368-67c612720df1
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 23 August 25 12:39 BST (UK)
Report of the death of G Thurman of Shepshed:

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/502afc01-ee7b-4672-9368-67c612720df1
Looking at WW1 pension records for Thurman in Shepshed, there are only two families of deceased soldiers to be found: that of George Albert Thurman (died June 1917), and that of John Nahum Elliott (died May 1915)  whose mother Elizabeth Thurman lived in Shepshed.

It seems likely that "J Thurman" on the memorial is an erroneous rendering of G A Thurman who is otherwise not listed.

https://www.loughboroughecho.net/news/local-news/shepshed-war-memorial-name-plea-7711041

See reply 1 and 5 (with newspaper account)

Although George A Thurman has a different regt no - 240290 ??

UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919

Private George Albert Thurman Birth Place   Shepshed, Leics
Death Date   6 Jun 1917 Death Place   France and Flanders
Enlistment Place   Shepshed
Regiment   Leicestershire Regiment
Battalion   1st 5th Battalion
Regimental Number   240290
Type of Casualty   Died of wounds

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ty1/

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ty2/


Sandra





Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 23 August 25 13:45 BST (UK)
One might imagine the maker of the memorial calling out to his assistant:

"What's the next one?"

"G A Thurman"

" Right ...J Thurman".....
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: AllanUK on Saturday 23 August 25 14:26 BST (UK)
The CWGC states that George Albert Thurman was the son of William and Mary of Sullington Road, Shepshed .... the address matches the newspaper article that ShaunJ posted. The 1911 Census shows George Albert living with his parents, William and Mary Jane, at Sullington Road. Also living there was his elder brother, John Arthur.

The Medal Rolls for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal records that his original 5th Battalion service number was 1837. The 5th Battalion was a Territorial Force, in 1917 all men serving in a Territorial Force were given a new six digit number, George Albert was given 240290. To try and determine when George Albert enlisted, a search was made for a soldier of the 5th Battalion that had a service number close to 1837 and also had a surviving service record. Such a record was found for a soldier called Ernest Whitfield, service number 1834, who enlisted on the 10th March 1914. George Albert, 1837, would have enlisted just after that date. In addition to looking at the BWM & VM medal rolls, I looked at the Medal Rolls for the 1914 and 1914/15 Star Medal ... the entry for George Albert shows that he entered a Theatre of War (France and Flanders) on the 28th February 1915.

Perk014 stated in the original post It lists J Thurman as being part of the Territorials G Company that left Shepshed with the 5th Battalion in 1914 ... the website 'The Long Long Trail' shows the following ... 1/5th Battalion
August 1914 : in Loughborough. Part of Lincoln and Leicester Brigade, North Midland Division. Soon moved to Luton and by November 1914 was at Bishop’s Stortford.
Landed at Le Havre 28 February 1915.


The fact that George Albert enlisted in March 1914 would tie in with the 'G' Company (which was based at Shepshed, with drill stations at Barrowden, Bisbrooke and Ketton) leaving in August 1914.

Further searches of available military records has failed to find a John / John Arthur Thurman.

The 1921 Census records that William and Mary Jane were still living at Sullington Road along with son John Arthur.

As George Arthur died 6/6/1917 does not appear on the war memorial, I would say that an error has been made and that the J Thurman should read G A Thurman.
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: tonepad on Saturday 23 August 25 15:05 BST (UK)
G A Thurman 1917 was subsequently added to the Shepshed War Memorial as a separate plaque, but presumably nobody has previously seen the confusion with J Thurman!

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10231209064142780&set=pcb.10162066169196240


Tony
Title: Re: John Thurman Leicestershire Battalion
Post by: PERKO14 on Saturday 23 August 25 16:29 BST (UK)
The CWGC states that George Albert Thurman was the son of William and Mary of Sullington Road, Shepshed .... the address matches the newspaper article that ShaunJ posted. The 1911 Census shows George Albert living with his parents, William and Mary Jane, at Sullington Road. Also living there was his elder brother, John Arthur.

The Medal Rolls for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal records that his original 5th Battalion service number was 1837. The 5th Battalion was a Territorial Force, in 1917 all men serving in a Territorial Force were given a new six digit number, George Albert was given 240290. To try and determine when George Albert enlisted, a search was made for a soldier of the 5th Battalion that had a service number close to 1837 and also had a surviving service record. Such a record was found for a soldier called Ernest Whitfield, service number 1834, who enlisted on the 10th March 1914. George Albert, 1837, would have enlisted just after that date. In addition to looking at the BWM & VM medal rolls, I looked at the Medal Rolls for the 1914 and 1914/15 Star Medal ... the entry for George Albert shows that he entered a Theatre of War (France and Flanders) on the 28th February 1915.

Perk014 stated in the original post It lists J Thurman as being part of the Territorials G Company that left Shepshed with the 5th Battalion in 1914 ... the website 'The Long Long Trail' shows the following ... 1/5th Battalion
August 1914 : in Loughborough. Part of Lincoln and Leicester Brigade, North Midland Division. Soon moved to Luton and by November 1914 was at Bishop’s Stortford.
Landed at Le Havre 28 February 1915.


The fact that George Albert enlisted in March 1914 would tie in with the 'G' Company (which was based at Shepshed, with drill stations at Barrowden, Bisbrooke and Ketton) leaving in August 1914.

Further searches of available military records has failed to find a John / John Arthur Thurman.

The 1921 Census records that William and Mary Jane were still living at Sullington Road along with son John Arthur.

As George Arthur died 6/6/1917 does not appear on the war memorial, I would say that an error has been made and that the J Thurman should read G A Thurman.

Thank you for this it does seem like the most likely and plausible explanation it seems that for some reason George Arthur went by J and would explain why he was supposedly “left off the memorial” for all those years.   Thanks for your help.