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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: DianaCanada on Tuesday 19 August 25 16:04 BST (UK)
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I wonder if someone could help me find my step-great grandmother on the 1939 register. Before and after 1939 she is at Boston Villa, 10 Lincoln Road, Blackpool. She was born in 1872. There is a Rachel Dixon there, same year, but at a different address.
Rachel Ann Monchier married (1) William Henry Moore, and (2) Elijah Dixon, my great-grandfather. He died 30 Nov 1929 in Blackpool and she died there in 1962. Her probate gives her address as 10 Lincoln Road. When Elijah died in 1929 they were at that address. They ran a guest house.
Rachel visited Canada twice, in 1930 (10 Lincoln Road) and then in 1937 (Hornby Road, Blackpool).
Any help appreciated.
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Rachel visited Canada twice, in 1930 (10 Lincoln Road) and then in 1937 (Hornby Road, Blackpool).
Could she be in Canada still?
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I don't have any proof that she wasn't, but I doubt she would have stayed two years. My grandmother was her stepdaughter, and I guess it is possible she paid an extended visit (I have a photo of the family group and her sister is with her in Canada, that's something I can check to see if she returned to England).
There is a family story that my parents visited her in Blackpool, and I think that was during the War as my father did not go back to England after his service in the Canadian army until the 1970's, and Rachel was dead. He might have got some leave and took my mother up there before they were married in 1945.
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I cannot see the lower even numbers for Lincoln road on the 1939 index :-\
Have you any idea which number Hornby Road
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I cannot see the lower even numbers for Lincoln road on the 1939 index :-\
Have you any idea which number Hornby Road
It was 144. According to my notes, Hornby Road was very close to Lincoln Road.
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I have looked at that address before ;D. She is not there.
I think that wherever 10 Lincoln Road is hiding so is she :). There are separate entries for no's 2, 18 & 22 but full lists for even numbers after for no 24 onwards
Looking at a current map Hornby Road is a long road with lots of streets running off it including Lincoln Road.
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Rachel visited Canada twice, in 1930 (10 Lincoln Road) and then in 1937 (Hornby Road, Blackpool).
Could she be in Canada still?
She arrived back 29 August 1937 Liverpool
Address 144,Hornby Road Blackpool
Rosie
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Could she have be visiting someone not in Blackpool?
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Could she have be visiting someone not in Blackpool?
Rachel and Elijah were from Burnley but I haven't found anyone who fits her name, age, etc. there either.
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I have found a number of references to her in the Newspaper Archive. I will read them in depth and see if there are any clues.
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Hi,
Her DOB might help find her but it will cost £3 from the GRO site.
Rachel Ann MONSHERE Sep Q 1872 The Burnley Union 08e 232
mmn: WARRINER
I can't find a baptism for her in case it recorded her DOB as well as her baptism date.
Regards,
Daisy
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Yes, I wanted to find her birthdate from the 1939, but no joy yet.
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I have found a number of references to her in the Newspaper Archive.
Allegations that Rachel was defrauded (a lot of money)
She and her family put a lot of memorial announcements in the papers
Burnley Express, 10 Dec 1938
Sweet memories of a dear brother and niece—Mrs. Dixon, 144, Hornby-road, Blackpool.
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I have found a number of references to her in the Newspaper Archive.
Allegations that Rachel was defrauded (a lot of money)
She and her family put a lot of memorial announcements in the papers
Burnley Express, 10 Dec 1938
Sweet memories of a dear brother and niece—Mrs. Dixon, 144, Hornby-road, Blackpool.
Thank you, I saw those. My father’s family arrived in Canada in the 1920’s, returned to Burnley once, and then back to Canada. (I have a wonderful school photo of my father around age 7, with his classmates in Burnley - a scruffy bunch!). My grandmother was the only surviving child of Elijah Dixon and she ran memorial notices in the Burnley papers - likely inserted by her stepmother.
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It's nice to hear that they were remembered.
I wonder if Rachel ever got her money back? :-\
I cannot see the lower even numbers for Lincoln road on the 1939 index :-\
I'm not sure what other resources are available online, so in desperation I tried the phone books.
I didn't see Rachel.
But, from 1936 to the June 1938 directory, a Hilda Slater has an entry at 10 Lincoln Road
Tel Blackpool 2486, so I guess it's the right road.
But from the December 1939 directory Hilda is at 9 Lincoln Road, with the same telephone number.
Can a likely Hilda be found in the 39 Register?
Collating similar sources, we may have a Thomas McCandless, who probably died in 1946, age 85
Probate for him, of 8 Lincoln Road, Blackpool, died 22 May 1946
Similarly William Hemming, died 1943, age 69
Probate calendar - 12 Lincoln Road, Blackpool, died 13 May 1943.
I'm not sure that either of those can be found.
I think that wherever 10 Lincoln Road is hiding so is she :).
Possibly Rachel slipped back to 10 Lincoln Road during the course of 1939.
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It's nice to hear that they were remembered.
I wonder if Rachel ever got her money back? :-\
I cannot see the lower even numbers for Lincoln road on the 1939 index :-\
I'm not sure what other resources are available online, so in desperation I tried the phone books.
I didn't see Rachel.
But, from 1936 to the June 1938 directory, a Hilda Slater has an entry at 10 Lincoln Road
Tel Blackpool 2486, so I guess it's the right road.
But from the December 1939 directory Hilda is at 9 Lincoln Road, with the same telephone number.
Can a likely Hilda be found in the 39 Register?
Collating similar sources, we may have a Thomas McCandless, who probably died in 1946, age 85
Probate for him, of 8 Lincoln Road, Blackpool, died 22 May 1946
Similarly William Hemming, died 1943, age 69
Probate calendar - 12 Lincoln Road, Blackpool, died 13 May 1943.
I'm not sure that either of those can be found.
I think that wherever 10 Lincoln Road is hiding so is she :).
Possibly Rachel slipped back to 10 Lincoln Road during the course of 1939.
There are two Hilda Slaters on the 1939, both quite young, neither living on Lincoln - one is on Park Road and the other on Lytham Road. I will check out the others.
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I checked for Thomas McCandless and William Hemming and could not find either of them in Blackpool. In fact, there was not one Thomas McCandless in the 1939.
Perhaps that part of Lincoln Road was not enumerated or has been lost?
Thank you for looking these references up for me, jonwarm, and to everyone else who has helped.
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Hi
I am afraid I can't check this at home, maybe you or someone can.
Reference: RG 101/4242F
1939 Register Booklet.
County: Lancashire.
Enumeration District: NCBY.
Borough, Urban or Rural District: Blackpool County Borough.
Volume Number: 4242.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C15068441
Is there a page missing? :-\
From findmypast free search, Piece number / Item number
4242f / 18 (43 results)
Includes 144 Hornby Road - Harry Hartley, born 1890, and Gertrude C Hartley, born 1910
4242f / 20 (41 results)
Includes 24 Lincoln Road - Marion E Walker, born 1889, three others, inc. John Storr Walker, born 1921
4242f / 19
Zero results!
I think 144 Hornby Road is at the junction with Lincoln Road.
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Sorry John, your link is just taking me to the 1939 search page if I select 'visit FindMyPast' .
I do think that there is at least one page missing, the odd numbers are all there and the evens from no 24. I did find 144 Hornby Rd earlier
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I do not recognize the Hartley couple living at 144 Hornby rd., although I have several Hartley family connections, no direct ancestors.
I too think part of Lincoln rd is missing, the lower even numbers.
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Hi Rosie and Diana
Yes I know, Rosie, I'm sorry, I was using it again for illustrative purposes, including for myself (I am working blind here, no images!)
The high odd numbers in Lincoln Road are on 4242f / 21, then next page (22) is the low odd numbers, and Hornby Rd pops up a little as well.
So I agree there is a possibility of a missing page, perhaps findmypast didn't scan it? I wonder if anything can be done to get them (or TNA) to relook at it? :-\
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I had not realised that I could search FindMyPast with just those references so thank you for that. There must be a way of reporting them to both TNA and FindMyPast. Shame the originals are now archived somewhere, I wouldn’t have minded a trip to Kew.
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Hi Rosie and Diana
Yes I know, Rosie, I'm sorry, I was using it again for illustrative purposes, including for myself (I am working blind here, no images!)
The high odd numbers in Lincoln Road are on 4242f / 21, then next page (22) is the low odd numbers, and Hornby Rd pops up a little as well.
So I agree there is a possibility of a missing page, perhaps findmypast didn't scan it? I wonder if anything can be done to get them (or TNA) to relook at it? :-\
I was searching using the 1939 on Ancestry, so there might be an issue with the original.
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Was it not one of those databases that FindMyPast had transcribed in conjunction with TNA and Ancestry got it from them 12 months later
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Yes, FindMyPast made it available first and had exclusive use for a period. See:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/help/articles/115004852045-how-can-i-contact-findmypast
They aim to reply within 2 days.
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Having seen the images, there is a page missing
4242f / 18 ends 212 Hornby Road, schedule 239
next image is
4242f / 20 begins 24 Lincoln Road, schedule 253
That's about 13 schedules missing.
Those references are also given on ancestry downloads.
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Hilda Slater is at 9 Lincoln Road, born 13 March 1900
Her name has been altered to HEMSLEY (married 1944)
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Aha!
Three images from the end of 4242f, where they start the added/amended entries, whatever they are
Stella E Baverstock, born March 1907, and David W Baverstock, at 22 Lincoln Road (one of the missing addresses)
It says see NCBY Book 1 Page 19
Schedule is 252
Attached
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If you look at this page - https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/1939-register-enumeration-districts
you will see in the left-hand column that the 3-letter codes for Lancashire county boroughs all ended in A. Blackpool borough was NCA, so the code NCB was not apparently used. (A fourth letter and three numbers were added to create a person's identity number.)
So what is the significance of NCB?
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Hi Molly
NCBY is the enumeration district
Reference: RG 101/4242F
1939 Register Booklet.
County: Lancashire.
Enumeration District: NCBY.
Borough, Urban or Rural District: Blackpool County Borough.
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Then the people in that district would have received IDs starting NCBY and the list in FindMyPast is not explaining all the details.
A few months ago we found Doncaster County Borough is completely missing from their list, but there is a gap for it at KDA. A Rootschat member had someone's ID starting with those letters.
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The image has E.D. Letter code NCBY in the top left hand corner and that is what FindMyPast have quoted
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Hi Molly
I'm afraid I am not expert on all this, quite the opposite.
Identity numbers started with the three letter code for the administrative area, i.e. NCA was the area code for Blackpool, as you say.
These areas were urban districts, rural districts, county boroughs, etc.
Within each of these were the enumeration districts, just like in the census. You can scroll through all the EDs on the ancestry browse facility. Blackpool has loads, from NBAA to NBPL.
Findmypast seem confused.
Article is called 1939 Register Enumeration Districts
Then says Understanding 1939 Registration Districts ???
I've dug out my father's National Registration Identity Card, it can't be the one originally issued.
It starts CDA, which is the code for Leyton, but in September 1939 he was evacuated to the south coast.
John
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Diana, if you do decide to contact findmypast about the missing page/image, please let us know how you get on.
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The schedule numbers jump from 239 (212 Hornby Road) to 253 (24 Lincoln Road)
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Thanks to everyone who helped me with this, I have found out more about Rachel just by posting although it does appear she is not on on the 1939.
Now this is almost spooky. Jonwarm posted showing who was living at 144 Hornby Road, an address that Rachel had given, in 1939 (Harry and Gertrude Hartley). I did a little research on this couple - it turns out Gertrude's maiden name was Dixon! Of course I thought she might be connected to the Dixons of Burnley, but no luck there. Her father was born in Crewe, Cheshire (1911 census), and I can't see anything placing him or his family anywhere near Burnley.
The other weird thing is that the husband of the couple is named Harry Hartley - it has always been a tragic story in our family that David Dixon, Elijah's only other child, and my grandmother's brother, died in 1899 trying to save another boy from drowning in Burnley. David was 15. The name of the boy who also died - Harry Hartley.
From findmypast free search, Piece number / Item number
4242f / 18 (43 results)
Includes 144 Hornby Road - Harry Hartley, born 1890, and Gertrude C Hartley, born 1910"