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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Bellas girl on Monday 18 August 25 19:18 BST (UK)
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Hi There.
I am really at a brick wall with this gentleman. I just cannot find him before his marriage in 1908. The statements he gave at that time, come to nothing, so I am appealing to you guys ( and gals) for help.
This is what I have.
Charles Edward , committed suicide , whilst serving with The Army Service Corp, in 1915, at Weston-Super-Mare. From his grave, he is noted as Sgt Major, MS/1220
He married in 1908, stating his father was Ralph Clark , of independent means.
I want to find his birth, supposedly born 1884. December? Mother is supposedly Lily Nesbitt
I would really love to solve this. I am doing this for my grandson. I have been trying for months, so would appreciate any help at all. Would his service records state his parents, birth date ? I got all my information from Ancestry.
Thank, in desperation.
JeannieR
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Army service records https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1219/images/31240_210368-00579
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Interesting that he initially gave his next of kin as Nellie Eastham, 7 Leamington Terrace, Acton rather than his wife. Was that his mother or a sister perhaps? At that address in the 1891 census there is a Charles R Eastham aged 7.
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Info only, birth of son
Births Sep 1912
Clarke Edward S Gould Islington 1b 339
Nesbitt-Clarke Edward S Gould Islington 1b 339
SS
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Is this him?
I don't have access
Weston super Mare Gazette, 14 August 1915
Soldier's Tragic Suicide. Died in Weston Hospital after Shooting Himself at Burnham...
An inquest was held at the local Hospital on Tuesday afternoon by Dr. Craddock, Coroner for North Somerset, concerning the death of Charles Clark, a sergeant-major in the Army Service Corps, at present stationed in Burnham...
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Long thread here, very recent
Topic: Marriage certificates
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=891049.0
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Great Research ShaunJ
I find Researching Soldiers that I can't find at First their Bith Details it is usually because they were born under another name and not the name they later grew up under and served and Died under.
They often adopt their Step Father's Surname
I think ShaunJ's theory that Eastham is possibly his Mother's
Elizabeth Ann King married Charles Eastham in Brentford June 1881
They had a Son Charles in 1884 albeit Charles R
Charles Edward had been in the Army pre 1914 before rejoining in Seaforth Liverpool in August 1914 and wounded Home in March 1915
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His service record on FindMyPast runs to several dozen pages. Details of his marriage to Elizabeth Bertha Gould are given as Islington Register Office on 29 Nov 1908 and birth of their son Edward Stephen in Islington on 3 Aug 1912. His suicide was by gunshot. He didn't die immediately, at first being listed as critically ill. There was a flurry of telegrams and other correspondence trying to inform his wife (later widow) but the addresses on file were out of date. Initially she was thought to be at 100 Rochester Street, Chatham, then 346 King's Street Hammersmith, and the address of 24 Five Bells Lane, Rochester also appears later on. At one point his widow is being referred to as Bertha Hayward. His paperwork contains the record of the inquest, although the statements of witnesses are virtually illegible. The verdict was suicide whilst temporarily insane. Someone mentions that he was very depressed prior to the suicide and was having marital difficulties. His widow was awarded a pension of 15 shillings per week, starting from Feb 1916. Some wonderful insights into the War Office bureaucracy, with correspondence about paying a guinea for the Coroner's report, and where and when his promotion to acting mechanist sergeant major was authorised. Incidentally, throughout his documentation he is referred to as Clarke, and Nesbitt is just one of his forenames.
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Hello all
Thank you so much for your responses. I don’t know where to start to reply ,
AndyJ2022
This is definitely my guy. His widow, Bertha, married Mr Hayward, very shortly after his death. Perhaps he committed suicide, because she was “carrying on “
I have met his son, Edward Stephen, who was born and baptised in The Workhouse in 1912. A delightful man. Long since deceased.
I am doing this because my grandson is confused. His father is the great grandson of Charles Edward, but he was adopted by his stepfather, so brought up with another name.
Thank you every one. Please bear with me, until I have perused all this info. I am 80 , so have to study every thing. The info about his sister is very interesting too. I never thought that my guy may also have been adopted/brought up under another name. I will be back!,
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At that address in the 1891 census there is a Charles R Eastham aged 7.
Charles Robert Eastham was born 23 June 1883 per his baptism record. He's in the 1939 register in Westmorland so he's not our man.
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Thank You Shaun
I was just about to do that.
Just been reading all of his Military Records. I think it highly likely, that his wife was having an affair, and committed suicide because of it.
I am really wanting to find his parentage
Back to the drawing board !
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Charles Eastham was also investigated, and eliminated, in April 2025.
Following them back there is a son Charles R. Eastham he was born 1883. And despite the answer to the children question he is alive in 1911. Boarding with the Newnham family. He is a Baker.
BUT he then marries Rose Louisa Newnham in 1912, and they are still both accounted for in 1921.
It is likely that Nellie Eastham was Charles Clarke's paramour, but passed off as a relative on his army papers, as suggested a few months ago.
That thread is well worth reading, some excellent research.
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1) When he signs up he states he was apprenticed to J Simpson and Sons of London since October 1910.
Do you know who they are?
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2) There is a George Lisle N Clark reg. Tynemouth 1878 June quarter Vol 10B page 199 mother's maiden name Wake
When he marries the N is Nesbitt.
His birth certificate might help
3) Is it possible that Nellie Eastham is the girl he referred to that she thought they were promised to each other, he was going to break it off and then married Elizabeth Bertha Gould. Ref: inquest testimony.
Listed as sister on the records in error.
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1) When he signs up he states he was apprenticed to J Simpson and Sons of London since October 1910.
Do you know who they are?
It's all on the other thread, amondg.
Brilliant stuff from JenB.
Interestingly Charles Edward Nesbitt Clarke stated on his 1914 Attestation papers that he was a foreman fitter and had worked with J Simpson & sons.
In 1911 Isabella Weare's son William Weare was an electrical engineer, and in 1921 was working for Worthington Simpson
Coincidence?
Worthington Simpson was the name of the company.
Previously it had been James Simpson.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worthington-Simpson
It’s just rather coincidental that ‘our’ Charles Clarke, a foreman fitter, was working for J. Simpson according to his attestation papers.
And that Charles N Clarke in 1891 and 1901 was with a family who had a member who was also a fitter and worked for Worthington Simpson in 1921.
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The plot deepens.
LM
Indeed, LM.
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1921 for the Weare family has same address as on his enlistment, with others. 364 Kings Street Hammersmith. So definitely a connection there.
Cas
Gosh!
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1921 for the Weare family has same address as on his enlistment, with others. 364 Kings Street Hammersmith. So definitely a connection there.
They are there in 1911 as well.
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I thought this name rang a bell!
Anyone reading this thread please look at the earlier 10 page thread about this person, mentioned by jonw in reply #5, as there is a great deal of research and information there which it would be a shame to duplicate https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=891049.0
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He married in 1908, stating his father was Ralph Clark , of independent means.
I want to find his birth, supposedly born 1884. December? Mother is supposedly Lily Nesbitt
Where has the mother's name come from? The birth found in 1889 has the mother as Lilian (not Lily) NESBITT.
Debra :)
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He married in 1908, stating his father was Ralph Clark , of independent means.
I want to find his birth, supposedly born 1884. December? Mother is supposedly Lily Nesbitt
Where has the mother's name come from? The birth found in 1889 has the mother as Lilian (not Lily) NESBITT.
Debra :)
I don't see any reference to a Lily or a birth in December 1884 on the earlier thread :-\
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Jen,
To be honest, I can’t remember where I got that name from. I have been researching this family for a while, and this guy has driven me mad ! Perhaps I dreamt
I am now going to read the thread through again, perhaps something will jump out at me. I can’t remember where the birth in 1889, mother Lilian Nesbitt came from either…
Thank you for your input.
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It came from the GRO Index
Charles Nesbitt Clark Reg. Islington1889 December quarter Vol 01B page 230 mother's maiden name
Nesbitt.
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I can’t remember where the birth in 1889, mother Lilian Nesbitt came from either…
You purchased the certificate, details here https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=891049.msg7650771#msg7650771
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Bertha seems to have been admitted several times to Islington Workhouse
St John's Road Workhouse. There are some other admission records hidden away on ancestry, they don't have much detail, but some extra info here and there.
For 10 April 1912
Bertha Clarke, 24, Married, admitted from 8 Waterloo Buildings
Husband Edward deserted
No. of Case Paper 345
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1557/images/47015_553012-00386
Other entries say she was homeless, again reference the case paper.
That could be the key, find case paper 345. If Bertha's husband had deserted her, they would have wanted to know all about him.
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My, You have been busy!
Thank you all SO much. I am so very grateful. I took today off, because I just didn’t sleep last night, thinking of all this.
I think it may be correct that Nellie was a paramour, and maybe why the marriage broke down.
Jonwarn. Thank you for finding those workhouse entries. Answaers a lot. I know that there son, Edward Stephen, was born and baptised in Islington workhouse, but had not found his mother’s details…Poor lady
Amondg !!
You marvellous wonderful person. THANK YOU. It seems you have found the certificate, that will solve this mystery. I have been looking for MONTHS for this.
My next task tonight is to send for it.
Can’t thank everyone enough for your help.
JeannieR
Ni
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You already have the birth certificate.
***Up Date***
I could stand it no longer, so I have got a digital copy of the birth certificate .
Here goes
November 2nd 1889
87 St John’s Road. Charles Nesbit/ Boy/Father Charles Clark/ Mother Lilian Clark/
Formally Nesbit / Fathers Occupation Amalgamated Gold Mining Company /Registered by mother / 20th November 1889.
I jut hope this is the right guy, but don’t know where Ralph comes into it.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=891049.63
Debra :)