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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: JakeMcGhee on Sunday 17 August 25 23:53 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I was hoping someone could help me uncover information on my Maternal Cassidy side, my Great x3 Grandfather John Cassidy married my Great x3 Grandmother Mary McIntyre, in Greenock 1873, John Cassidy is said to have been born in Ireland, to John Cassidy, who was a soldier, and Elizabeth McLaughlin, sometime in the early 1850s (as per his death certificate in 1926 Greenock, his parents are not listed on his marriage certificate) I would be very appreciative for anything regarding him, or his parents, as I’m rather stuck , not entirely sure if he himself was Protestant or Catholic, but his marriage to Mary McIntyre was a Catholic ceremony, I’m not too sure about Mary McIntyre, as I have a baptism record in 1852 in Greenock ( which would match her age on the marriage record ) and her parents are listed as Thomas McIntyre and Catherine Docherty (same as marriage record) but her death record in 1928 has parents listed as William McIntyre and Mary Docherty, and then a census record I believe showing them in 1921 on Greenock shows John to be born in Londonderry and Mary to be born in Movile, Donegal.
Kind regards,
Jake
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If she is the same person, the marriage names would be more reliable as she herself would have supplied them.
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Can you please post the marriage certificate, so we have ALL information that is included.
You have supplied very little – ages?, occupations?, address?, witnesses?
Marriage -
CASSIDY JOHN to MCINTYRE MARY
1873 564 / 3 / 301 Greenock Old or West
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The census records tell you that BOTH John Cassidy AND Mary Jane McIntyre were born in Ireland.
Their first son John, was born in Ireland in 1874. Looks as if Mary Jane went home for the birth of her first child, (not uncommon).
See the birth record
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1874/03141/2151737.pdf
Catherine McIntyre was informant on the birth. That could be the maternal grandmother.
Take notice of the address.
Mettican
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/coleraine/errigal/garvagh/mettican-glebe/
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Most, if not all, of the McIntyres in the area around Mettican that I have come across were either Presbyterian or Church of Ireland.
To complicate things further, there are no McIntyres listed in Mettican Glebe in the Valuation Revision Books 1865 to 1880 which means that Catherine McIntyre was living in someone else's household.
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I have found some other members of the McIntyre family in Garvagh, Coleraine, County Londonderry
Marriage of Catherine McIntyre of Mettican in 1871
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11350/8166595.pdf
This is Catherine and her family in 1901 census
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Coleraine/North_Brook_Street/1518339/
Note there is also Annie McIntyre (Catherine’s sister)
Possible death of the mother Catherine McIntyre age 70 in 1883
Note that daughter Annie is the informant.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06356/4823564.pdf
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Hello all,
Thank you for the help so far, one error from my original post, the marriage to John Cassidy was actually within the church of Scotland (mix up with their son James)
These are all the documents I have regarding both. I have their marriage certificate, along with John Cassidy's death certificate, and then Mary McIntyre's death certificate, along with a baptism record for a Mary McIntyre in Greenock, with a Thomas McIntyre and Catherine Docherty listed as parents, year of baptism would match year of birth going by marriage record, could she have been born in Ireland and baptised in Scotland? I also have an 1891 census showing the family, minus the son born John born in Ireland, showing them living in Greenock and both John and Mary listed as being born in Ireland, living with their children Catherine, James, Mary and Thomas, all born in Greenock.
Kind regards,
Jake
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Another child?
Wilson McIntyre born c1841 son of Thomas McIntyre & Catherine Docherty-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6TLL-4441?lang=en
Another child?
John McIntyre (c1834-1863)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS6P-NL9V?lang=en
If that is the same family then parents married well before civil registration of marriages in Ireland.
There was a Thomas McIntyre/Catherine Doherty marriage in Ireland but as it's in 1881 it can be ruled out.
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Annie (Nancy) McIntyre still with O'Brien family in Coleraine in 1911-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Coleraine/Circular_Road/589424/
The O'Briens do have a headstone in Coleraine Cemetery- [not sure if link will work]
https://billiongraves.com/images?t=rec24407140&col=1&cat=299087&rec=24407140
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Wilson McIntyre in 1861 census, Greenock
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59ef9a2bf4040b559686fea3/wilson-mcintyre-1861-renfrewshire-greenock-1840-?locale=en
Wilson and wife and son are in 24 East - Shaw St, Greenock in 1891 census.
John McIntyre in 1861 census, Greenock
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59c54961f4040bbce0d16efd/john-mcintyre-1861-renfrewshire-greenock-1836-?locale=en
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You can view a transcription of the 1881 Greenock census on SP at no cost.
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/image-viewer/census_lds/census_lds-0bf60a11-b53e-4a94-8da1-f31f8d68eecc?search_token=174667064968a300c2c7573&row=row_0&sort=asc&order=Birth%20Place&from_page=3
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A Thomas McIntyre & Mary Jane Ches[t]nut[t] of Ballygally [Ballygawley] had a son Wilson in 1882-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1882/02786/2022641.pdf
The marriage has his father as Thomas McIntyre, labourer (deceased). The groom living in the townland of Movenis outside Garvagh-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1861/09607/5483836.pdf
IF the deceased father Thomas was the husband of Catherine Dogherty then it means he died before registration of births in Ireland.
IF this Thomas McIntyre is connected to the family in question then I'm pretty sure I have lots of details on them in my files.
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Information re your McIntyre family from 1851 census search request.
Parents - Thomas and Kate McIntyre
Bovagh, Aghadowey, Coleraine
Children – William, John, Thomas, Wilson, Nancy (Annie), Mary Jane, Catherine, Elizabeth
https://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/reels/c19/007246693/007246693_01255.pdf
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I’m not too sure about Mary McIntyre, as I have a baptism record in 1852 in Greenock ( which would match her age on the marriage record ) and her parents are listed as Thomas McIntyre and Catherine Docherty.
I think you need to take a closer look at this record. What you have posted is too small to read and is only a snip. According to the indexing on SP this baptism took place on 19 Dec 1874, for a Mary born in 1852. So the person was baptised at the age of 22. It could be your Mary deciding to be baptised RC after she had married in the Church of Scotland. I’m not sure it progresses your search much anyway.
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…. census record I believe showing them in 1921 on Greenock shows John to be born in Londonderry and Mary to be born in Movile, Donegal.
Are you sure that is what is recorded on the 1921 census? I think we have ascertained that Mary was from Londonderry. So was John Cassidy from Moville?
Have you looked at the 1911 census to see place of birth?
Note spelling in 1911 census is CASSIDAY
Reference - 564/2 13/ 7 Greenock West
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From the marriage record, it looks as if John Cassidy either did not know his parents’ names, or did not want to give detail that might give away an illegitimate birth.
It is difficult to know if the information about his parents on his death cert. is correct.
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I spent quite a bit of time extracting bits of information from my files and searching online records and the 1851 census extract shows I seem to have found all 8 of the McIntyre children. Brief outline-
Thomas McIntyre (d.bef.1861?) m. Catherine Doherty (c1813-1885 Coleraine)
1. William McIntyre m.(1856) Elizabeth Wallace- family
2. John McIntyre (c1834 Ire.-1863 Scot.)
3. Thomas McIntyre (c1835-1890 Bovagh) m.(1861) Mary Jane Chestnutt- family
4. Wilson McIntyre (c1841 Ire.-1900 Scot.) m.(1862) Jane Gage
5. Annie/Nancy McIntyre (c1851-aft.1911)
6. Mary Jane McIntyre (c1852-1921 Scot.) m.(1873) John Cassidy
7. Catherine McIntyre (c1857-aft.1901) m.(1871) John O’Brien- family
8. Elizabeth “Eliza” McIntyre m.(1888) William Letson. Family
2. John McIntyre (c1834 Ire.-1863)
1861 Census: https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59c54961f4040bbce0d16efd/john-mcintyre-1861-renfrewshire-greenock-1836-?locale=en (John McIntyre, 25, born Ire.)
Death: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS6P-NL9V?lang=en
4. Wilson McIntyre (c1841 Ire.-1900 Scot.) m.(1862 Greenock) Jane “Jeanie” Gage (d.1905)
Birth: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6TLL-4441?lang=en
1861 Census: https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59ef9a2bf4040b559686fea3/wilson-mcintyre-1861-renfrewshire-greenock-1840-?locale=en (lodger Wilson McIntyre, 21, born Ire.)
Greenock Telegraph, 20 Sept.1900: Wilson McIntyre, husband of Jane, died at 14 Blackhall Street, Greenock on 18th September 1900 age 58.
Greenock Telegraph, 20 Feb.1905: Jeanie Gage, widow of Wilson McIntyre, died at 9 Bearhope Street, Greenock on 19th February 1905.
I haven't looked for further records of Wilson in Scotland.
5. Annie/Nancy McIntyre (c1851-aft.1911)
1901- Annie with sister Catherine; 1911- Nancy with O’Brien family
More to follow when I get back home.
Regarding Mary Jane's birthplace- she was almost certainly born in Co. Londonderry, Ireland not Co, Donegal.
The baptism in Dec.1879 is interesting. Mary Jane McIntyre (Church of Ireland) married John Cassidy in Scotland in 1874 and son born Aug.1879 in Ireland. A few months later there is the adult baptism- wonder if son was baptised in Ireland or Scotland as a Catholic around that time.
Added- no baptism for John Cassidy in Errigal or Coleraine R.C. parishes in 1879. Unfortunately St. Guaire's (COI), Aghadowey baptisms don't start until 1882. St. Paul's (COI), Garvagh baptisms start 1873 but are in local custody.
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The baptism in Dec.1879 1874 is interesting. Mary Jane McIntyre (Church of Ireland) married John Cassidy in Scotland in 1874 1873 and son born Aug.1879 1874 in Ireland. A few months later there is the adult baptism- wonder if son was baptised in Ireland or Scotland as a Catholic around that time.
All Cassidy children were baptised RC in Greenock. So John was RC and Mary Jane converted after marriage.
John Cassidy burial was at RC Greenock St Mary's
JOHN CASSIDY
Male 72
Death 25/10/1926
Burial 28/10/1926
Greenock, St Mary's
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Good to know about the Scottish R.C. baptisms but I checked for John's here in
1879 1874 just in case he was baptised here first. There's still a chance he would have been baptised in COI here, especially since Mary Jane was staying with her family here at the time.
More to post in a little while.
Thanks to Neale1961 for correcting my typo ;)
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…….. but I checked for John's here in 1879 just in case he was baptised here first. There's still a chance he would have been baptised in COI here, especially since Mary Jane was staying with her family here at the time.
1874 is the correct year.
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Thank you again so much to everyone that is providing very useful information that I had no clue about, I really appreciate it, now I at least have a rough location where Mary is from, along with her siblings and parents. When I look at the Baptism for Mary McIntyre, it to me looks as if the parents names are listed as Thomas McIntyre and Catharine/Catherine Docherty, which would play into the theory that she was baptised into John Cassidy's faith after their Church of Scotland wedding, seeing as the kids are all Catholic as well, interesting that my Great x2 Grandfather James Cassidy is not on the baptism list as he was born in 1877 in Greenock, but perhaps his was elsewhere :)
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Thank you again so much to everyone that is providing very useful information that I had no clue about, I really appreciate it, now I at least have a rough location where Mary is from, along with her siblings and parents. When I look at the Baptism for Mary McIntyre, it to me looks as if the parents names are listed as Thomas McIntyre and Catharine/Catherine Docherty, which would play into the theory that she was baptised into John Cassidy's faith after their Church of Scotland wedding, seeing as the kids are all Catholic as well, interesting that my Great x2 Grandfather James Cassidy is not on the baptism list as he was born in 1877 in Greenock, but perhaps his was elsewhere :)
In regards to Great x2 Grandfather James Cassidy's Baptism I just found his record in 1877, mothers name was transcribed incorrectly on Scotland's People, also Catholic, In Greenock.
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Hello everyone I had a look back at the 1921 Census report including a John & Mary Cassidy in Greenock, just to make sure everything looked in line with what I said, it says that they live in 6 West Stewart Street, which corresponds I believe to the Death Location of John Cassidy in 1926, so I almost certain it is my John & Mary Cassidy (McIntyre) and as you can see it does have John as being born in "Derry" and Mary being born in Moville, Donegal, but seeing as everyone is in agreement that Mary and family are actually from Co Londonderry, perhaps it is the wrong way round? it also mentioned that John's occupation was sugarhouse Labourer, and his occupation on his death record was sugarhouse worker, so must be him.
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My grandfather did exactly the same thing- mixed up places of birth for his parents which made finding their families in Ireland extra challenging.
I'm still typing up stuff from my files (there is lots because of a sort of connection to my grandfather's family so I'd already done quite a bit of research).
Here's another bit-
Catherine McIntyre (c1857-aft.1901), dau. of Thomas & Catherine (Doherty) McIntyre, m.(1871) John O’Brien (c1844-Dec.1880), iron moulder
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11350/8166595.pdf (bride- Mettican)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1880/06461/4858078.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Coleraine/North_Brook_Street/1518339/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Coleraine/Circular_Road/589424/
Coleraine Cemetery: https://billiongraves.com/images?t=rec24407140&col=1&cat=299087&rec=24407140
1. Annie Bellas O’Brien (11 Mar.1872 Chapel Square, Coleraine) m.(11 Jan.1894 St. Patrick’s COI, Coleraine) John Davis, tailor.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1872/03252/2191788.pdf
Note: Bellas was the name of a local family and it's possible her father was employed by them
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10551/5843148.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Coleraine/Abbey_Street/1518127/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Coleraine/Circular_Road/589418/
2. John Armour O’Brien (12 Apr.1874 Long Commons, Coleraine-aft.1901).
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1874/03153/2156362.pdf
3. Catherina “Cassie” O’Brien (15 July 1876 Church Walls, Coleraine-31 Oct.1951).
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1876/03048/2117455.pdf
4. Thomas O’Brien (6 May 1879 Church Walls, Coleraine-27 Oct.1883 Stable La., Coleraine).
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1879/02923/2070863.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06347/4820893.pdf
5. Eliza Jane O’Brien (18 June 1881 Brook St., Coleraine-28 June 1952).
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/cert_amends/cert_1881/2034432a.pdf (father deceased)
Daughter of Catherine (McIntyre) O'Brien-
6. Ena O’Brien (24 Mar.1890 Brook St., Coleraine-21 Apr.1981) m. Alexander McClean (d.16 July 1960).
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1890/02435/1906074.pdf
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Elizabeth “Eliza” McIntyre, dau. of Thomas & Catherine (Doherty) McIntyre, m.(1888) William Letson.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10765/5925754.pdf (bride- Blackheath House, Craiglea). Three days later her brother James McIntyre married Rebecca McGraw in the same church.
Coleraine Chronicle, 14 Nov.1891: Head-Constable Tilson charged William and Eliza Letson, of Long Commons, Coleraine, with ...
Coleraine Chronicle, 23 Jan.1904: A CURIOUS CASE. O'Brien v. Letson. Charles O'Brien, Brook Street, Coleraine, sued William Letson, of the same place, for 17s 6d, price of a calf sold to defendant. There was a counter claim ... Eliza Letson, wife of the defendant ...
Possible death on GRONI: Eliza Letson, 10 Feb.1916 Coleraine (Coleraine sub-district). Note: Irish Genealogy have indexed as Leston but image not shown (several weeks of deaths not recorded on page)
1. Son (born & died 26 May 1877 Dam Side, Coleraine)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1877/03015/2104608.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1877/020550/7211641.pdf
3. Catherine Doherty McIntyre (15 Mar.1882 Rosemary La., Coleraine-1884 Stable La., Coleraine)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1882/02786/2022650.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06339/4818065.pdf
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Thomas McIntyre (c1835-2 Nov.1890 Bovagh), son of Thomas & Catherine (Doherty) McIntyre, m.(1861) Mary Jane Chestnutt (c1840-1910 Crevolea)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1861/09607/5483836.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06091/4738331.pdf
Coleraine Chronicle, 8 Nov.1890- Thomas M’Intyre, Killykergan, found dead in a mearing drain in the townland of Bovagh on Monday afternoon. He had been drinking with James Nelson, Mullinabrone, on Sunday.
Belfast Weekly News, 8 Nov.1890- Thomas M’Intyre, of Killykergan, was found in a mearing drain, in the townland of Bovagh, about three miles from Garvagh.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Aghadowey/Ballynacally_Beg/1515881/
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05414/4513134.pdf
1. Nancy McIntyre (1870 Movenis)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1870/03364/2233596.pdf
2. Catherine McIntyre (1872 Movenis) m.(1896) William Dunlop. Ch.: Margaret, Thomas
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1872/03252/2191797.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10488/5819358.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Aghadowey/Moneycarrie_Upper/1516050/
3. David McIntyre (1876 Mayogher [Mayoughill?]) m. Anne. Son: David
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1876/03073/2126325.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Aghadowey/Ballynacally_Beg/1515906/
4. William McIntyre (1879 Gortin-1881 Ballygawley)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1879/02935/2075271.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1882/06416/4842913.pdf
5. (John) Wilson McIntyre (1882 Ballygally-1918) m.(1915) Annie Jane Frizzle
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1882/02786/2022641.pdf
https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/RobertThompsonAghadowey.htm
Added- there was another son of Thomas & Mary Jane which was omitted-
James McIntyre (c1861-aft.1890) m.(4 May 1888 St. Guaire’s COI, Aghadowey) Rebecca McGraw (c1866-15 June 1890 Moneycarrie)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10765/5925754.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06099/4740790.pdf
1. William McIntyre/McGraw? (1886)- born before marriage of James & Rebecca
Bapt. 19 Apr.1889 St. Guaire’s COI, Aghadowey.
2. James McIntyre (27 June 1888 Moneycarrie-aft.1901)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1888/02509/1930137.pdf
Bapt.19 Apr.1889 St. Guaire’s COI, Aghadowey.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Aghadowey/Ballyganley/1515870/ )with McGraths)
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Jake,
See what you got yourself into?
Aghadowey will be over shortly for tea and cakes....
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And bringing a dictionary of Irish terms.....
'Mearing drain'
"Mearing" most commonly refers to a boundary or a line marking a limit. It can also be a surname, or a term for a boundary between pieces of land, particularly in Ulster (Northern Ireland).
Despite having a Limavady Grandma I cannot recall her saying this word despite that she lived on one side of what would be a mearing drain here in NZ.
I love this site for all the terms and the by the by snippets. ;D
I do remember my mother being most emphatic that her McIntyre close friend was descended from Ireland and came from Ireland to NZ. Way back they may have come from Scotland.....
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Have made some corrections & additions to yesterday's posts #18, 23, 25 (in red)
Just have William's family left to post but it's more complication since I had so much information on them to start with. Hopefully soon ...
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John Cassidy’s 1926 Greenock death record lists parents John Cassidy (soldier) & Elizabeth McLaughlin, with census showing him born in Londonderry. His 1873 marriage to Mary McIntyre was Catholic. Mary’s 1852 Greenock baptism gives parents Thomas McIntyre & Catherine Docherty; the 1928 death record naming different parents was likely an error. The 1921 census has John from Londonderry and Mary from Moville, Donegal.
Next steps: check ScotlandsPeople (https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk) for the 1873 marriage image, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org) for Cassidy baptisms, and YourRoots (https://yourroots.com/search-record/state-province-county) for Greenock and Donegal records.
Hello,
I was hoping someone could help me uncover information on my Maternal Cassidy side, my Great x3 Grandfather John Cassidy married my Great x3 Grandmother Mary McIntyre, in Greenock 1873, John Cassidy is said to have been born in Ireland, to John Cassidy, who was a soldier, and Elizabeth McLaughlin, sometime in the early 1850s (as per his death certificate in 1926 Greenock, his parents are not listed on his marriage certificate) I would be very appreciative for anything regarding him, or his parents, as I’m rather stuck , not entirely sure if he himself was Protestant or Catholic, but his marriage to Mary McIntyre was a Catholic ceremony, I’m not too sure about Mary McIntyre, as I have a baptism record in 1852 in Greenock ( which would match her age on the marriage record ) and her parents are listed as Thomas McIntyre and Catherine Docherty (same as marriage record) but her death record in 1928 has parents listed as William McIntyre and Mary Docherty, and then a census record I believe showing them in 1921 on Greenock shows John to be born in Londonderry and Mary to be born in Movile, Donegal.
Kind regards,
Jake
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Carolgenealogy1970, some ‘interesting’ comments.
Your next step would be to read the thread. ???