RootsChat.Com

Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: oldtimer on Friday 15 August 25 18:15 BST (UK)

Title: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation COMPLETED, WITH THANKS
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 15 August 25 18:15 BST (UK)
Hi friends,

This is an excerpt from the 1711 marriage allegation of Francis Power of Atherstone and Sarah Whateley of Stockingford.  They were later married in Lichfield Cathedral.

Can you help me with the first word on the last row please?  I am presuming it is a Latinized Christian name, but I could be wrong.  ;D

I read it as  - ? Power White Smith.

Thanks for looking,

Judy  :)


Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation please
Post by: horselydown86 on Friday 15 August 25 19:07 BST (UK)
Does Ob deus mean something?  The first word will be contracted.
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation please
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 15 August 25 19:16 BST (UK)
Oh, I can see that! I think Deus means God.  No idea what it means though!  Thanks for your suggestion.
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation please
Post by: horselydown86 on Friday 15 August 25 19:25 BST (UK)
I think Deus means God.

Yes, probably in the nominative case (alternatively, it could be the vocative case).  We need to know more about the first word.
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation please
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 15 August 25 19:30 BST (UK)
A quick look on Google says that "ob" can mean "before", so I'm thinking it means "before God" .

That would sort of make sense.  Thank you for putting me on the right track.
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation please
Post by: MollyC on Friday 15 August 25 19:32 BST (UK)
You just beat me to it...
"Ob" can be a preposition: in front of, on account of, for the sake of...

Added: not "before" in the sense of time, that would be "ante"

(A whitesmith is a tinsmith)
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation please
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 15 August 25 19:34 BST (UK)
Thank you too, MollyC! Mystery solved!  :D
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation please
Post by: horselydown86 on Friday 15 August 25 19:37 BST (UK)
Mystery solved!  :D

Not so fast.

It's possible but grammatically it should be:  Ob deum

Furthermore, there's a clear indication of contraction in the horizontal line above the end of Ob.
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation COMPLETED, WITH THANKS
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 15 August 25 19:39 BST (UK)
Oh, okay!  I'm open to any other suggestions, thanks!
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation please
Post by: Viktoria on Friday 15 August 25 19:40 BST (UK)
Dei perhaps God,— Ob perhaps short for in the sight -observing - sight (of God, )those words are in the marriage ceremony in one form or another.
“ Dearly beloved,we are gathered together here in the sight of God “
Viktoria.
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation COMPLETED WITH THANKS
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 15 August 25 19:43 BST (UK)
Thanks for your suggestion, Viktoria  :)
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation please
Post by: Bookbox on Friday 15 August 25 19:46 BST (UK)
In this context Ob definitely stands for the Latin Obligatus, meaning 'is bound'.

I'm still uncertain about the word before Power.
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation please
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 15 August 25 19:52 BST (UK)
Thank you BookBox.  I find it strange that the writer has only used Power's surname and not his Christian name.  That's why I originally thought it was a name that had been Latinized.
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation please
Post by: Bookbox on Friday 15 August 25 19:53 BST (UK)
The second word is d(i)c(t)us, so ...

Ob(ligatus) d(i)c(t)us Power Whitesmith = 'The said Power, whitesmith, was bound'.
Title: Re: Help with Latin? word from 1711 marriage allegation please
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 15 August 25 20:00 BST (UK)
Oh brilliant!  Thank you very much BookBox. Your help is really appreciated.

Thanks also to horselydown 86, MollyC and Viktoria for your interest in it too.  :)