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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Zaphod99 on Tuesday 12 August 25 17:23 BST (UK)
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I have a not so distant instance of incorrect information being put on a birth registration. It's too recent to name names, but a teenage girl, living at home, with her parents and other siblings, gave birth, and, presumably to save any embarrassment to the rest of the family, she specified her rather unusual middle name as the mother's maiden name.
That strikes me as probably being illegal, but what sort of penalty could she have faced?
I will probably buy a copy of the birth certificate, just to see if it gives any information about the father, but I think that is unlikely.
Mrs Zaph
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It’s quite common for inconsistency in names on birth certificates to occur, people often lied on certificates often done to conceal illegitimacy. Most of us will have come across many examples. She may have started using that name once she realised she was having a baby It is not illegal to call yourself what ever you like.
It occurs on marriage and death certificates .
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If you don't have the certificate, then you don't know what's on the entry.....you're guessing.
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That strikes me as probably being illegal, but what sort of penalty could she have faced?
It's not illegal!
A person can call themselves anything they like, just as there is no intention to deceive or defraud.
No proof of name is asked for by the registrar.
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If the information she gave was deliberately false then she potentially committed an offence of perjury..... but if the name was one she "used or was known by" then it was perfectly OK.
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If the information was false then she potentially committed an offence of perjury..... but if the name was one she "used or was known by" then it was perfectly OK.
As No Oath was made to Register the Birth - then No Offence of Perjury was Committed
I have a Relative - the Mother Registered the Child in August but the Baptism was logged previously 3 months earlier in May
On Another Son The Mother declared the Father Named was Declared Deceased which was True - I have his Death Certificate 8 years previously.
I was taught as a Researcher to
Remember that Records are Not necessarily the Truth
They are a Record of People "Said"
And what they Said may Not be the Truth
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Swearing an oath isn't always required for an offence of perjury. Lying to a registrar is covered as a specific offence under s4(1) of the Perjury Act 1911 ( before that it was included as an offence within the relevant B&D legislation).
4) False statements, as to births or deaths.
(1) If any person—
(a) wilfully makes any false answer to any question put to him by any registrar of births or deaths relating to the particulars required to be registered concerning any birth or death, or, wilfully gives to any such registrar any false information concerning any birth or death or the cause of any death; ....etc etc.
Was subject to a maximum sentence 7 years imprisonment ( may be two years now) ..... there is a notice warning of the potential offence displayed in every registrar's office (or should be).
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Great Find Antony
Thanks for that Knowledge
Cheers
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Is there any possibility that the biological father's surname was the same as the mother's middle name, or would that be too much of a wild coincidence?
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Not in this case.
Zaph
Is there any possibility that the biological father's surname was the same as the mother's middle name, or would that be too much of a wild coincidence?
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Could it have been a genuine mistake, and she misunderstood the registrar's question? She was only a teenager after all.
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I only had the short form Birth Certificate which only shows my given own names.
Then after a DNA test things did not look right with the Matches that I had, where I found the probability that Dad was not my Biological Father to be highly likely. Two further tests of other people confirmed that my Mother must have had a liaison with the person who was my Biological Father.
I then applied for my GRO Birth Certificate and Dad (who will always be Dad) is listed as my Father.
Now I am left wondering did Dad know he was not my Father? Did Mum know? Did my Biological Father know?
There was never any clues for me to pick up on whist growing up and during their lifetimes.
I look like my Biological Father, yet I also look like my Maternal Grandfather and despite my Brother and I looking different it was always put down as him taking after Dad’s side of the family and me after Mum’s.
There is more!
In the family line that I thought was mine there is, Great Grandmother, her Father is not listed on her Birth Certificate, yet on her Marriage Certificate her deceased Grandfather is listed as her Father.
My Biological Grandfather’s Birth, Marriage and Death Certificates are all in error! He was either the product of a liaison and the father listed on his Birth Certificate was not his Biological Father or he was adopted by the couple who registered him and raised him as their own. I have not found DNA matches who link to his Biological Mother’s line yet but I have DNA matches to and beyond my Biological Great Grandfather.
DNA again proves that Certificates can be factually incorrect and hence why now I distrust Birth and Marriage Certificates.
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I have discovered through DNA that my uncle fathered 3 children whilst he was married to my aunt ( that is 3 who have done DNA tests I wonder if there are more )
I have been able to work out all the women were married and I suspect they all worked for the large employer my uncle worked for.
I wonder what is on the birth certificates for the father? I suspect the women's husband is named as the father.
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I wonder what is on the birth certificates for the father? I suspect the women's husband is named as the father.
Firstly, the registration process is informant led.
The Registrar writes down what he is told by the informant.
Secondly, when a married woman registers a birth, it is assumed that her husband is the father.
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I wonder what is on the birth certificates for the father? I suspect the women's husband is named as the father.
Firstly, the registration process is informant led.
The Registrar writes down what he is told by the informant.
Secondly, when a married woman registers a birth, it is assumed that her husband is the father.
Yes I know that, it is obvious he is the father as my legitimate cousin ( his son ) matches with them and they were all living in the same city.
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Secondly, when a married woman registers a birth, it is assumed that her husband is the father.
It isn't just assumed. Under common law there is a presumption of paternity within a marriage which is why a married woman is allowed to name her husband as the father without him being present, but if she does so knowing that to be false (or impossible) she would be committing perjury. Happened a lot though !
But irrelevant to the original question - the OP needs to get a copy of the entry- trying to guess from the index alone is pointless.
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In the 1960's my married mother had an affair and fell pregnant with me. It's impossible to tell from the index entry alone as it looks like I'm a child of a married couple though the cert shows she registered my birth knowing her husband was not the father so didn't name him. As my father didn't give his permission to be named that section is blank on my certificate.
The certs and dna show my parents and a grandparent are NPE births, it's pretty much impossible to prove the details of the fathers were knowingly falsified at the time of registration given the timeframe (1890-1924).
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...she specified her rather unusual middle name as the mother's maiden name...
Are you saying that the birth was registered using only the mother's middle name as a surname, rather than her actual surname? How would that spare anyone's blushes?
Or do you mean that the index is showing a mother's maiden name as well as the surname the birth is indexed by? In which case the birth has been registered as if the child was born to a married couple
and there will be father's details, albeit (probably) with the wrong surname.
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Galium, the mother used her own unusual middle name as her surname. The mother's five siblings all had a fairly common surname, but the elder daughter was given what is probably a distant family name as a middle name. The elder daughter, the one who gave birth, either chose to use her middle name as her surname or was encouraged to by her own mother.
I will be buying the certificate, once I have ensured that nobody else in the family has already got it in their possession.
Zaph
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Or do you mean that the index is showing a mother's maiden name as well as the surname the birth is indexed by? In which case the birth has been registered as if the child was born to a married couple
and there will be father's details, albeit (probably) with the wrong surname.
Just because a birth registration looks as if the child was born to a married couple that does not mean a father will be named on the certificate. My birth index entry and cert are examples of that. As Anthony has said on many threads there is no way to know what is on a cert based on the index.
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Sorry Glen. I didn't read your post properly, and I had understood that a married woman's husband's name would always be recorded as the father, no matter what the truth was, or what she happened to tell the registrar.
Thanks for the information. :)