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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 00:25 BST (UK)

Title: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 00:25 BST (UK)

HI List
    I'm wondering if it is possible to find the actual parents names listed for this marriage please.

  I'm now collecting information on this couple.  Many thanks Dianna

Marriage: 21 Oct 1822 St James, Haslingden, Lancashire
James Whittaker - Newrow near Love Clough
Matty Pickup - Love Clough in this Chapelry
    Witnesses: John Dobson; Thos. Wilding
    Married by Banns with consent of parents by William Gray Minister
    Register: Marriages 1822 - 1831, Entry 53
    Source: Original Parish Register
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 08 August 25 02:29 BST (UK)
Marriage by banns. Parents not named.

I would suggest starting by looking for them in the census to see their place of birth.
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 02:53 BST (UK)
Hi Neale 1961
     Thanks for that.  LOL I didn't think it would be that easy.

I have on the 1841 Census in Habergham Eves Twp James Whittaker age 35, wife Matty age 35.  He is a Colour Mixer I think.

That occupation is listed on some of the baptismal records of the children.

I've tried to attach the census but it will not work sorry

Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 02:57 BST (UK)
OH It worked that time.  Good.  My aim is to find out who this Matty's parents are.

There is only one record (haven't seen it though) that suggests her name was MARTHA ALICE  and that is on the marriage of her daughter Elizabeth WHITTAKER to William PICKERING in 23rd APRIL 1863 at West Gate Chapel in Burnley.

Maybe some one has the actual marriage certificate for Elizabeth and Wiliam.

Witness's Martha Alice WHITTAKER and Jonathan (Elizabeths older brother) Many thanks Dianna
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 08 August 25 05:17 BST (UK)
Is this Matty in 1861 at Watkinson Court, Habergham Eaves?

Matty WHITAKER  58  Mar  (Manager's wife at Paint works)  Tatham
Susan                      35   Barrow
Martha                    26   Burnley
Elizabeth                24
Eliza                        19
????                          17
Mary JACKSON      37  (dau)  Love Clough
Alfred                      8  (gr son)  Burnley
Martha                   6 (gr dau)
William                  3  (gr son)
RG9/3072/21 pg36
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 08 August 25 05:32 BST (UK)
And in 1851 at 16 West Gate Habergham Eaves

Martha WHITAKER   48  (Mar)  Higher Booths
Susan                         25  Whalley
James                         20  Habergham Eaves
Jane                            20  Todmorden (dau in law)
James                          1  Habergham Eaves  (gr son)
Jonathan                    18 (son)
Martha                      16
Elizabeth                     14
Eliza                               9
Ormerod                     7
Margaret                    5
HO107/2252/239 pg44 &45         

(Note the name I was having trouble with - Ormrod Enoch birth registration Dec qtr 1843 Burnley (21/203) mmn PICKUP.)
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 05:37 BST (UK)
Hi maddys52

I'm not sure really! I found two baptisms for a Mary and a Susan.  Will try and attach here.  It's possible considering the description of the husband.  Would he not be head of the household though?? Many thanks Dianna
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 08 August 25 05:40 BST (UK)
James WHITAKER is not with the family in 1851 or 1861 - will keep looking for him.  :)
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 05:46 BST (UK)
There is the "odd" baptism for James Pickup Whittaker at the age of 23.  Mums name is Martha on this record in Habergham Eves. 

Oh Wonder where James was?? Dianna
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: heywood on Friday 08 August 25 06:54 BST (UK)
Do you mean it is odd because James was 23 yrs?

He was already baptised at the age of 3 yrs at Goodshaw in 1833, along with Jonathan.

Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: amondg on Friday 08 August 25 07:11 BST (UK)
Martha Alice was the sister not the mother. Re: witness to Elizabeth's marriage

Lancs OPC
Birth dates unless otherwise written
Mary   11 August 1823
Susan  22 January 1826
Thomas 23 April 1828
James Pickup 28 August 1830
Jonathan 13 November 1832
Martha Alice * 17 September 1834
Elizabeth  22 July 1836
Lucy 15 March 1839
Eliza Ellen 8 August 1841
Ormerod Enoch 7 November 1844  (bap. 6 March 1864)
Margaret  no birth date listed bap. 18 August 1845
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 07:38 BST (UK)
Hi heywood yes I thought it was odd he was baptised aged 23!!  Well I guess that is possible that the sister was the witness along with the brother.

That's the problem when you take too much notice of the "trees".

A lot of the trees say that the mother is MARTHA "Matty" Alice PICKUP.  Possibly a mix up as I have not found a birth or baptism of a Matty/ie or a Martha in Lancashire.

I am descended from Elizabeth born it seems 22 July 1836.  Thanks for that I've never seen it before.  She emigrated to Australia in 1881 and died here in 1916.

It does say Thomas as father on her death certificate but of course that may be incorrect.

Thanks for the help and information
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: heywood on Friday 08 August 25 08:06 BST (UK)
Do you have Matty’s death certificate for her marital status?

Letters of Administration were granted to Susan Whitaker, one of the next of kin. Her death was 25th February 1870 and the probate granted in April.
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: heywood on Friday 08 August 25 08:12 BST (UK)
It looks as though Matty was buried in the graveyard of Goodshaw Particular Baptist church
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tws/
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: amondg on Friday 08 August 25 08:19 BST (UK)
GRO Index

Enoch Whitaker reg Burnley Union 1838 mother's maiden name Pickup  - Died 1841 age 3
 
Eliza Ellen Whitaker reg 1841 Burnley  mother's maiden name Pickup

Ormrod Enoch Whitaker reg. 1843                 ditto

Margaret Whitaker reg. 1845                          ditto
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 08:28 BST (UK)
Hi No I don't have Matty's death certificate, this is all new research. Thanks for finding he burial.

Don't know if James died before her!  It is possible I guess seeing as Susan Whitaker was granted Letters of Administration.

That would be interesting to see!  Many thanks Dianna
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: amondg on Friday 08 August 25 08:28 BST (UK)
Lancs OPC

There are two possibilities - maybe more on other sites

Matilda Pickup Born 10 April 1804 of Edmund and Elinor  of Old Accrington bap. St James

Matty Pickup daughter of James and Ann Born 31 December 1805, abode Elton. bap St Anne, Tottington
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: heywood on Friday 08 August 25 08:37 BST (UK)
This might be a bit too early.
Lancs opc has:
Baptism: 1 Apr 1800 Wesleyan, Newchurch in Rossendale
Martha Pickup - Daughter of Alexander Pickup & Alice
Birth: ? Mar 1800
Abode: Holm meadow in the parish of Haslingden
Occupation: Woollen weaver

There are other children to this couple, one baptised at Goodshaw.
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: Jebber on Friday 08 August 25 09:10 BST (UK)
Are you sure that the entry you are referring to of the 23 year old is a Baptism and not a Burial?
I am sure the word on left of the entry says Phthitis.  So I would suggest it was a Baptism done when he was dying and someone was unsure if he had been Baptised as a child.

There is a death registration which exactly fits his name and age in Burnley Union in 1853.
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 09:21 BST (UK)
Hi Jebber well I'm not sure now LOL.  I thought I could see a small word in the column.  So he died age 23 in 1853, therefore he will not be on the 1861 Census just looked not on the 1861.

Thanks for checking that.  Dianna

Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 08 August 25 09:25 BST (UK)
From LANCAT
Archdeaconry of Chester Probate Records
Testator's name: James Pickup
Occupation/status: Grocer
Place: Union Row near Love Clough Whalley
Date: 19 Sep 1857

Copy will is on FamilySearch
Daughter Matty Whitaker, wife of James Whitaker
Here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6X7B-TZ

James Whitaker had left Matty and their ten children and gone to America :o

EDIT!
Add in full text link, the images can be downloaded (see where transcript is)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6X7B-TZ?view=fullText&keywords=James%20Whitaker%2CPickup&lang=en&groupId=
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 09:27 BST (UK)
Hi just checked you were right, it was a burial for James Pickup Whittaker.  Should have my eyes checked.  Thank you.
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: heywood on Friday 08 August 25 09:32 BST (UK)
What a great find, jonwarm and how sad that is too.
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 09:38 BST (UK)
Hi jonwarrn THAT IS AMAZING Thank you so much.  Now I know Matty's fathers name and what actually happened to James Whittaker. 

Wonder what happened there!  So the last child Margaret was born in 1845 and James the father takes off.

Well now we know why he was not on the census.

Curious why it say's on the 1861 Census that "Matty's husband was a manager at the paint works"

Many thanks Dianna
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 08 August 25 09:48 BST (UK)
1841 census Whalley, Union Row
James Pickup, 70 grocer
Betty Pickup, 70
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 10:00 BST (UK)
HI Neale1961 Thanks very much for that.  Now I have Matty's parents, wonderful. 

Will be interesting to see if James Whittaker came back to England.  Shame on him!!  He may have died in America perhaps. Regards Dianna
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 08 August 25 10:46 BST (UK)
Great find jonwarn. Explains why I couldn't find James WHITAKER in England.

I recall seeing earlier a Thomas WHITAKER in the US with parents James and Matty PICKUP. (A banking record on Ancestry) He is in Pawtucket, Rhode Island in the 1870 census.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MFFH-4HW?lang=en

Also in various later censuses. Interestingly on his death his parents are listed as Thomas and Martha.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:D61K-M8PZ?lang=en
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L984-9DPQ

Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: heywood on Friday 08 August 25 10:51 BST (UK)
Interesting that his occupation is a ‘Color Maker/Mixer’ and he is the right age for Thomas b 1828.
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 08 August 25 11:17 BST (UK)
1841 census Whalley, Union Row
James Pickup, 70 grocer
Betty Pickup, 70

Just to note that this is in Higher Booths. As "Martha" gives as her birthplace in 1851.
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 08 August 25 11:41 BST (UK)
1850 census Johnston, Providence, Rhode Island
James Whitaker 55, colour mixer, born England
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 08 August 25 11:48 BST (UK)
snap! Was just about to post this.  :D
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MDJ6-1HR?lang=en
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: heywood on Friday 08 August 25 15:27 BST (UK)
 :) Good research
Title: Re: James WHITTAKER and Matty PICKUP
Post by: haney on Friday 08 August 25 20:34 BST (UK)
All this is amazing.  I will read through it all again.  So glad I asked the question!!  Many thanks everyone.  Regards Dianna