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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: wolfman99 on Wednesday 06 August 25 02:10 BST (UK)

Title: What is a "deal"?
Post by: wolfman99 on Wednesday 06 August 25 02:10 BST (UK)
My 5 x great grandfather Thomas Brown was recorded into Newgate Prison in 1794. He was charged with what looks like "Stealing Deals" - the print is pretty vague.

Does anyone know what that means in today's terms?

Thanks

Jim
Title: Re: What is a "deal"?
Post by: maddys52 on Wednesday 06 August 25 03:10 BST (UK)
Can you attach a snip of the writing so that we can see? Or a date of the trial so we can look at it?

I can see a Thomas BROWN committed to Newgate for stealing 16 shillings in silver from Richard SPICER - 29 Sept 1794.
   Tuesday,  Sept. 30, 1794
Publication: Oracle
Title: Re: What is a "deal"?
Post by: Kay99 on Wednesday 06 August 25 03:13 BST (UK)
I wonder if it relates to stealing soft wood.   I noticed a newspaper report 23 Oct 1869 Watford Observer

Stealing Deals at Watford

George Watford boatman of Doddington Leicester, was charged with stealing six deal planks value 30s ....

Title: Re: What is a "deal"?
Post by: maddys52 on Wednesday 06 August 25 03:24 BST (UK)
Looking in newspapers I can see quite a few references to "stealing deals" from around 1750 onwards. Sounds right that it may be wood - some refer to "stealing Deals from on board a Lighter ..."; "stealing deals out of the sea"; "stealing deals from the timberyard"; "stealing deals from the raff yard"; etc.
Title: Re: What is a "deal"?
Post by: PatLac on Wednesday 06 August 25 03:27 BST (UK)
deal noun (WOOD)

[ U ]
the pale, soft wood of a pine or fir tree, used especially for making furniture:
Title: Re: What is a "deal"?
Post by: maddys52 on Wednesday 06 August 25 03:30 BST (UK)
Also:
" ‘Deals’ were timber suitable for making boards, imported into east-coast ports from the Baltic, sometimes called Prussian deals. "
https://yorkshiredictionary.york.ac.uk/words/deal
Title: Re: What is a "deal"?
Post by: Neale1961 on Wednesday 06 August 25 03:47 BST (UK)
A “deal” was a measurement used for lumber.
Title: Re: What is a "deal"?
Post by: David Nicoll on Wednesday 06 August 25 04:28 BST (UK)
I knew about floorboards being made of deal,

But as maddys52 gives

An alternative etymology.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/deal

Always interested in language.

@Neale1961 can you expand, I have not come across that usage.
Title: Re: What is a "deal"?
Post by: Neale1961 on Wednesday 06 August 25 05:14 BST (UK)


@Neale1961 can you expand, I have not come across that usage.
Expanded here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deal_(unit)
Title: Re: What is a "deal"?
Post by: David Nicoll on Wednesday 06 August 25 07:24 BST (UK)
Neale1961,

Thanks the reason I was particularly interested is that most of the floorboards of Edinburgh Tenement flats are made of deal. Very hard to get now I understand.
A bit frustrated as being interested, I looked up the reference in the article, and the book does not give a proper reference for his source, frustrations frustrations, I will now have to do some more research!
Title: Re: What is a "deal"?
Post by: wolfman99 on Wednesday 06 August 25 09:10 BST (UK)
Thanks for all your answers. This site is truly where the experts live.

Kinds regards

Jim
Title: Re: What is a "deal"?
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 06 August 25 10:33 BST (UK)
Thanks for the post - enjoyed trying to get my head round this ready reckoner/guide (searched for deal or deals)
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_London_and_Country_Builder_s_Vade_me.html?id=s_jaqGg2UdcC&redir_esc=y
Title: Re: What is a "deal"?
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 06 August 25 11:06 BST (UK)
Also:
" ‘Deals’ were timber suitable for making boards, imported into east-coast ports from the Baltic, sometimes called Prussian deals. "
https://yorkshiredictionary.york.ac.uk/words/deal

I'm involved in a transcription project and in a lot of letters from Newcastle merchants in late 17th to mid-18th century there are frequent references to the import of timber 'deals' from Sweden.