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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: aidansrest on Tuesday 05 August 25 13:15 BST (UK)
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Hi
Just after some advice, or confirmation of what we've been told is correct.
My friend's husband's grandfather was adopted. He was born in 1926 and died in 1988, and we are trying to locate his original birth certificate to obtain, at the least, his mother's name.
As far as we are aware, he had no other siblings.
We have his name at birth, his date of birth and the exact location of where he believed he was actually born, but, because he was adopted (and we do know both the adoptive parent's names - he was living with them at the time of the 1939 register), there does not appear to be a record of his original birth registration in the public domain.
We were told that this is because he was adopted and that special forms have to be filled in for the Home Office/GRO, and to access information about an adopted person the family must use a registered adoption intermediary.
We have done this, and been given some advice and guidance of what would be needed for a investigation to begin, but it is very costly!
Does anyone know of an easier way to do this without the use of an intermediary?
Many thanks
Sue
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Hi Sue
His birth will have been registered. Perhaps you are using the wrong details when looking at the birth index? An adoption certificate does not supersede a b/c index entry.
CD
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You have another post on this subject :)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=892336.
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Hi
Firstly, yes, I must apologise I should have tagged this onto the previous post, but we had moved on slightly from then, so I thought I would have to start over again.
Secondly, we have searched for the person using the details he knew about himself for his original birth registration and were unable to locate it.
I did mention this to the intermediary and she replied;
If it is in the public domain and you know the details you can, but if the person was adopted and you are trying to find their original birth certificate then you cannot as special forms have to be filled in for the Home Office/GRO.
Some people know their original identity in which case they already hold the information.
So, from that I'm guessing that this may be why the original cannot be traced?
Would you agee?
Sue
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I think you would be better off just relating the information as you have it.
add in the 1939 register details too. The gentleman is long gone.
Was it a formal adoption? Is there a certificate in the adoptive name?
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Hi
Firstly, yes, I must apologise I should have tagged this onto the previous post, but we had moved on slightly from then, so I thought I would have to start over again.
Secondly, we have searched for the person using the details he knew about himself for his original birth registration and were unable to locate it.
I did mention this to the intermediary and she replied;
If it is in the public domain and you know the details you can, but if the person was adopted and you are trying to find their original birth certificate then you cannot as special forms have to be filled in for the Home Office/GRO.
Some people know their original identity in which case they already hold the information.
So, from that I'm guessing that this may be why the original cannot be traced?
Would you agee?
Sue
Sorry to disagree with the intermediary. His original birth will have been registered. Therefore, it will appear in the indexes. This item can be ordered.
When a person is legally adopted they are given an adoption certificate this supersedes the original b/c for legal purposes. The original b/c will be marked in the lower right hand corner 'adopted'. And just for clarity legal adoption was established with the Adoption of Children Act 1926, which came into effect on January 1, 1927.
So, was he legally adopted? Have you looked for him in the GRO index using his 'adopted' name just in case? Just a thought??
CD
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Hi
Thank you _ will definitely take a look!
Sue
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You say you know his birth name, do you mean just his first name or both his first and surname? If the latter then you should be able to find it in the normal GRO Index.
Some years ago when a friend was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, before it became too late he wanted to find out if he had any younger half siblings as his parents had divorced. He thought his father may have remarried and he wondered if there were further children. The answer to that question was NO, his father had remarried but there were no children from that relationship.
What I did discover was that his father had actually been married three times and my friend was the result of the second marriage. There had been a son and daughter from the first marriage which were his older half siblings. I ordered their birth certificates hoping to discover what had become of them, only to find both certificates had Adopted out written in the margin so it was a dead end.
Most people know the Adopted name and are looking for the birth name, there's no way to link a certificate marked Adopted out with the new Adopted certificates.
I should have added that the two births we 1921 and 1927.
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My MIL was adopted in 1930. I have her adoption certificate and her original birth entry definitely still appears in the indexes. I also have the original court order for the adoption and this gives the reference in the birth indexes to the original birth entry.
Was he legally adopted and if so could the legal paper work still exist somewhere? Also are you sure that the birth name that is know is correct eg, he may think his name was "John" at birth, but could it have been James John and maybe appear in the indexes as James J making it hard to find.
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Thanks for that!! I will investigate further!
Sue
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If you can find the Medical Card with No. on it for the person for whom you are serarching...you stand a chance of locating the original, with good luck and patience. CAN YOU LOCATE HIS MEDICAL CARD NO. SHOWING THE DOCTOR'S NAME WHOM HE WAS REGISTERED WITH FOR HIS CARE?
i MANAGED TO DO THIS IN 1975 WITHOUT KNOWING MINE, OR MY MOTHER'S NAME IN 1944.
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On the 1939 Register prior to WW11 the name on that register will be his name that he was known by, through his Adopted parents.
He may have been given a different name from the one his mother called him at birth.
My Adopted name was Doreen.
(Name at birth although) I didn't know it when I saw my Medical Card No. was Eleanor Winifred .....
My Medical card No. was FKII 381. So my orginal Birth Record was No. 381 in the Registry book FKII.
All I had to do was find where it was...WHICH I DID AFTER SOME TIME.
However, Now we know the sequence, and with patience. Go through the lists and find the Registry No. and Book - to find THE BIRTH NAME. You mention that you think you know the area and Date of Birth, so it should be a lost faster than the time it took me to locate my mother.
Then I had my journalist friend, fill in the application form (and the Seconded officer, had no idea, The certificate shouldn't have been given at the time!) it took me four hours to locate and speak to my mother after 33 years.
Alternatively, you could go to the Social Services; and as you are not searching for your own parent...and the person for whom you are searching, is a blood line, and long gone...perhaps they will allow you to have your ancestors information.
Failing that.....DON'T BY PAYING ANYONE TO DO THE WORK FOR YOU. DO IT YOURSELF. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANT AND WHY. YOU ARE BLOODLINE. APPLY TO THEM DIRECT, ASKING FOR THE INfORMATION. I WANTED MINE FOR MEDICAL REASONS, AND IN 1975 WAS GOING TO HAVE TO GOV THROUGH COURT A LONG DRAWN OUT PROCEDURE AND COSTLY EVEN MY PAYING DIRECT. HOWEVER THE HEAD HONCHO, FOR MENTAL HEALTH, AND I, DID NOT SEE EYE TO EYE, AND HE INFORMED THAT THAT I DIDN'T NEED HIM, I WOULD FIND OUT ON MY OWN (which i did, a few weeks after him, not backing me in my request) BIG PAPER REPORTS AND HEADLINES. I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE SEEN HIS FACE, KNOWING THAT I DID GET THE INFORMATION WITHOUT HIS HELP, AND BEFORE MY CAMPAIGN FOR ADOPTEES RIGHTS WON THE VOTE IN PARLIAMENT.
AFTER THAT WE ONLY HAD TO GET THE THOMAS CORAM FOUNDATION (FOUNDLINGS) TO AGREE TO HAND OVER THEIR CHARGES NAMES AND CERTIFICATES ----AS THEY WEREN'T UNDER THE ADOPTION LAWS, AND A PRIVATE MEMBERS BILL WAS GOING TO BE TOO COSTLY. WE GOT THEIR RIGHTS TO CERTIFICATES A SHORT TIME LATER. WIN, WIN. NEVER GIVE UP. NEVER GIVE IN. GOOD LUCK IN YOUR QUEST.
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Thank you so much!
Sue