RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: eileendavid on Sunday 03 August 25 14:24 BST (UK)
-
Hello
Hope you can help a friend. William Armstrong married at Manchester Cathedral 07.02.1814. He married Elizabeth Lowndes and he is recorded as being a private in the 36th foot regiment. He says he is from Manchester. Can't find a birth for him but wondered if there are any records that may help establish his age and what happened to him. Been unable to find any census. Remaining hopeful ???
-
Listed as a deserter in the muster book for 4Q 1816:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/60546/records/397104
-
Just to add that the marriage record shows Esther Lownds not Elizabeth Lowndes.
-
In February 1814 the 36th (Herefordshire) Foot Regiment consisted of two battalions. The 1st Battalion was fighting in the Battle of Orthez (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Orthez) in Southern France so it is unlikely that he was serving in that battalion, unless he had been wounded in an earlier part of the campaign (the Peninsular War) and had been shipped back to Britain to recuperate or be discharged as no longer fit for service. Or he might have been a member of the 2nd Battalion which was then stationed in Brighton, but was well under strength. Indeed the 2nd Battalion was disbanded in October 1814 and its remaining soldiers transferred to the 1st Battalion when it returned to Britain in August.
-
Yes I was aware of the Esther/Elizabeth Lowndes both have been recorded on FS both the same date.
Is there anyway his muster rolls can be found to find his discharge and his date of birth. Thank you both for your response. Thank you all for your help so he deserted in 1816 wow
-
Shaun J
My friend does have ancestry but they are asking for more subscriptions to see the muster rolls. Is there any more information. Please.
-
The muster rolls have not been digitised. You can find them at TNA in the following series:
1st Battalion
WO12 / 5028 for the year 1800
to
WO 12 /5039 for the years 1817-1818
2nd Battalion
WO12 /5097 for the years 1807-09
to
WO12 /5099 for the year 1814 (to October only)
You will not find his date of birth in the muster rolls. They are also unlikely to tell you exactly when he was discharged if he deserted and was not subsequently found. All that will have happened is that his name will no longer show up in the muster rolls. While the 1st Battalion was fighting in the Peninsular Wars, the 2nd Battalion will have acted as the depot back in Britain, therefore you may need to look at both sets of rolls to determine when he enlisted.
-
Sorry but do they not have information as to when he signed up ???
-
The muster and pay rolls are a bit like a school attendance register. They merely note a soldier's presence in order to account for his pay. You can only deduce his date of enlistment from the date he first appears in the rolls, but of course this may not be definitive. Similarly the absence of his name might be for a number of reasons, including desertion, being in prison or in hospital, having been transferred to the other battalion, or of course because he has been discharged.
By the way, I am puzzled by Shaun's reference to the muster rolls for 1818 appearing to be on Ancestry. TNA specifically says the rolls for that year have not been digitised. The TNA entry may be out of date.
-
I am puzzled by Shaun's reference to the muster rolls for 1818 appearing to be on Ancestry.
The link I posted is to the 25th September- 24th December 1816 muster, not 1818. I didn't mention 1818.
-
Apologies Shaun, but my point is the same. TNA also say that the 1816 rolls have not been digitised. If you have found them on Ancestry, clearly the TNA Discovery entry is out of date. Quite possibly all of the rolls for the 36th for that period (c. 1800 - 1820) have likewise been digitised which will make eileendavid's job a bit easier.
-
Ancestry have indexed images of a selection of muster books and paylists covering the period 1812-17.
Looking again for Wm Armstrong of the 36th, the paylist for the period 25/12/1814 to 24/3/1815 reveals that he was then in the custody of the civil power. Possibly in Ireland (they were based at Birr per the paylist).
Just noticed that the paylist for 3Q 1816 has two entries for William Armstrong - two soldiers with the same name? One is annotated above his name - something about Manchester. The other is noted as deserted 13th December.
-
Yes I was aware of the Esther/Elizabeth Lowndes both have been recorded on FS both the same date.
Does FS show the parish record? I can’t see it.
It looks as though it has been transcribed wrongly as Elizabeth is the name transcribed in England, select Marriages’ which is an index.
The parish record page is shown in both Lancashire and Manchester marriages where it is clearly Esther. It is also ‘Lownds’ without the ‘e’ .
Your friend can find the entries on Ancestry.
Lancs opc also transcribes it as Esther.
It may make a difference to your search and your friend’s records.
-
Just noticed that the paylist for 3Q 1816 has two entries for William Armstrong - two soldiers with the same name? One is annotated above his name - something about Manchester. The other is noted as deserted 13th December.
I wonder if it is the same person with two entries perhaps?
The first entry looks a bit like ‘Cutler - Manchester’ or ‘C…ter’
The second crossed through presumably because that person has deserted.