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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: AR.Usher on Sunday 03 August 25 01:52 BST (UK)

Title: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: AR.Usher on Sunday 03 August 25 01:52 BST (UK)
Trying to find information on his parents

Harry Victor Usher, b. October 05, 1900, Hammersmith, Middlesex to Joseph Thomas Usher and Elizabeth Fanny ?.

Unable to find a birth registration that contains mmn, and a census for him.

He marries Lily Town in 1926, and they immigrate to Canada during ww2.
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 August 25 02:06 BST (UK)
Maybe this birth registration?

Births Dec 1900
USHER   Henry Victor       Fulham   1a   206
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: AR.Usher on Sunday 03 August 25 02:14 BST (UK)
Maybe this birth registration?

Births Dec 1900
USHER   Henry Victor       Fulham   1a   206

That's him, but the GRO index doesn't have that record, only FreeBMD. I have no idea if it was transcribed weirdly, or I'm doing something wrong.
The GRO index usually has the mother's maiden name too.
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 August 25 02:27 BST (UK)
Yes, I am also having trouble finding the entry in the GRO.
I wonder what it has been entered under?
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 August 25 02:32 BST (UK)
At least one with the same reference is on there, (Frederick Horace Carpenter) so the batch hasn’t been missed.

However FindMyPast has been slowly adding the MMN. They have done Frederick Horace .
On there the MMN for Henry Victor is a blank.
So perhaps an illegitimate birth??

Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: amondg on Sunday 03 August 25 02:36 BST (UK)
He married 25 December 1924 (not 1926) St Peter's Battersea, he was 24 and Pastry Cook

Her father was Albert Town deceased, Lily was 22.

His father Joseph Thomas Usher was a Painter
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 August 25 02:38 BST (UK)
His baptism record has his father as Joseph Thomas USHER, a foreman.
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: amondg on Sunday 03 August 25 02:42 BST (UK)
1939 register
Harry V Usher born 5 October 1900 Pastry Cook
Lily  Usher born 18 December 1902

Children
Victor Thomas Usher born 1926 reg. Wandsworth
Joyce Ellen Lilian Usher born 1927 reg. Wandsworth
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 August 25 02:46 BST (UK)
Age is a bit out but

Shipping

Kingston Jamaica to Aviemouth, arrived 11 May 1924
H.V. Usher age 22 no occupation
Miss D. B Usher, 26 typist

Going to 32, Madeley Rd, Ealing.
Country of last permanent residence, British Honduras

(Modified to add…I think this is unlikely to be right man. See later developments).
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: AR.Usher on Sunday 03 August 25 03:14 BST (UK)
He married 25 December 1924 (not 1926) St Peter's Battersea, he was 24 and Pastry Cook

Her father was Albert Town deceased, Lily was 22.

His father Joseph Thomas Usher was a Painter

I was told Lily and Harry first met as orphans in an orphanage (details were a little messy)so it seems Lily was the orphan. Her mother seems to be Selina, and both her parents die in 1911. I was also told Harry Victor was a baker.

Albert was a painters labourer from the 1911 census, so maybe painter was accidentally put in Joseph's occ.

Age is a bit out but

Shipping

Kingston Jamaica to Aviemouth, arrived 11 May 1924
H.V. Usher age 22 no occupation
Miss D. B Usher, 26 typist

Going to 32, Madeley Rd, Ealing.
Country of last permanent residence, British Honduras
I don't know who D. B. could be, or why they were there in the first place.
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 August 25 03:19 BST (UK)
In 1939 with the Ushers is

Charles   Minton   12 Dec 1910   Male   Automobile Electrical Engineer

There is a marriage in 1907
Elizabeth Usher to Joseph Thomas MINTON, a painter

But they seem to be together a lot before that.
In 1901 they are at 77 Chancellors road, same as the baptism, with a 5 month old Henry Minton
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: AR.Usher on Sunday 03 August 25 03:31 BST (UK)
In 1939 with the Ushers is

Charles   Minton   12 Dec 1910   Male   Automobile Electrical Engineer

There is a marriage in 1907
Elizabeth Usher to Joseph Thomas MINTON, a painter

But they seem to be together a lot before that.
In 1901 they are at 77 Chancellors road, same as the baptism, with a 5 month old Henry Minton

That other name seems familiar. I believe I saw a Henry or Joseph somewhere with the names Usher and Minton together, let me try to find it quickly.
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 August 25 03:32 BST (UK)

In 1901 they are at 77 Chancellors road, same as the baptism, with a 5 month old Henry Minton

Good find, mckha489 !!
I have been looking for that address in 1901.
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 August 25 03:38 BST (UK)
 1921 in 99 Grant Rd, Battersea
Joseph Thomas Minton – a decorator
Wife Elizabeth
son H V Minton age 21 and 1 month – recorded as away with army
3 other children in house
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: AR.Usher on Sunday 03 August 25 03:39 BST (UK)
Thank you to all of you!!

I did go look at more of Fulham's Ushers, and there are a few more without a mmn listed on the GRO index, which makes me believe they are Illegitimate + I couldn't find a census for them.

Edit: putting them here for now, i'll do more research on them soon.

   USHER, WILLIAM  JOSEPH     - 
GRO Reference: 1898  S Quarter in FULHAM  Volume 01A  Page 212

   USHER, IVY  ELIZABETH     - 
GRO Reference: 1902  J Quarter in FULHAM  Volume 01A  Page 217

   USHER, GERTRUDE  BESSIE DRAKE    - 
GRO Reference: 1904  S Quarter in FULHAM  Volume 01A  Page 210

   USHER, IVY       - 
GRO Reference: 1906  M Quarter in FULHAM  Volume 01A  Page 355
^ does seem to have an 1911 census, living with completely unrelated people.

Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 August 25 03:47 BST (UK)
This record set
Wandsworth Intermediate School Swaffield Road: Admission and Discharge Register, 1909-1916

Has Joseph William, Henry & Edith  all as Minton or Usher

Henry’s dob on that is said to be 4th November 1900
Name of parent or guardian = Joseph Minton
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: AR.Usher on Sunday 03 August 25 03:50 BST (UK)
1911 Wandsworth London

Henry Minton 11
Ivy Minton 9
Edith Minton 7

theres also this
   USHER, EDITH       - 
GRO Reference: 1903  S Quarter in ST MARYLEBONE  Volume 01A  Page 530

Edit: 1901 has a son Joseph Thomas, which I'm assuming to be William Joseph, the census officer just got mixed up.
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 August 25 03:51 BST (UK)
1901 census mentioned above

Entry is badly transcribed on Ancestry. It does say
Elizabeth F. Usher Minton, wife 31, born Pimlico London.


In 1891 census
Elizabeth F Usher is a servant for the Chapman family in St George Hanover Square.
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 August 25 03:51 BST (UK)
1924 electoral register Joseph Thomas, Elizabeth and Harry Victor MINTON are all registered at 99 Grant road, which is the address he gives at his marriage.

The witness, Thomas Cook is at 109 Grant Road. (Lily’s address)
Also Emily Cook, Annie Russell and Edward James Sutton

(I think the shipping from Jamaica in my earlier post must be a complete coincidence)
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 August 25 04:00 BST (UK)
19 August 1910, Henry, Ivy Elizabeth and Edith Minton Usher admission recorded at Wandsworth Union “parents in the workhouse”
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 August 25 04:01 BST (UK)
1881 census St George Hanover Square
Elizabeth Usher 9 years, with parents Thomas (carpenter) and Harriet

1871 census St George Hanover Square
Elizabeth Usher 2 months, with parents Thomas (carpenter) and Fanny

Baptism St George Hanover Square 17 Apr 1874
Born 19 Jan 1871
Elizabeth Sophia, daughter of Thomas and Fanny USHER
Carpenter, Elizabeth Place.


Birth rego -
USHER, ELIZABETH  SOPHIA                         Mother - DANCE 
GRO Reference: 1871  M Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE  Volume 01A  Page 352

My guess is that Elizabeth often changed her middle name from Sophia to Fanny, thus taking on her mother's name.
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 August 25 04:10 BST (UK)
Fanny DANCE married Thomas USHER (carpenter) 31 May 1857 Henley on Thames, St Mary, Oxfordshire.

Fanny died in 1877
Burial 18 Oct 1877 in Brompton Cemetery
Address Elizabeth Place, Pimlico


Thomas USHER (widower, carpenter) re- married on 25 Nov 1878 St Martin-In-The-Fields, London
to Harriett WEST (widow) nee Hawkins.

?Possible Death for Thomas Usher in 1896 (Battersea)
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 August 25 04:11 BST (UK)
Small side track, just to build a picture.

this man is on the electoral roll with the Mintons at this same address.

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/91b0a52d-12cf-4ecc-9d6b-5544a79cd38f
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 August 25 04:28 BST (UK)
1924 electoral register Joseph Thomas, Elizabeth and Harry Victor MINTON are all registered at 99 Grant road, which is the address he gives at his marriage.

The witness, Thomas Cook is at 109 Grant Road. (Lily’s address)
Also Emily Cook, Annie Russell and Edward James Sutton

(I think the shipping from Jamaica in my earlier post must be a complete coincidence)

Looking at that address in 1921.
Lily Town is Thomas’s sister in law
Also present is Ada Town sister in law 20 years 8 months
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 August 25 04:34 BST (UK)
Wandsworth
Intermediate School Swaffield Road: Admission and Discharge Register, 1911-1912

Ada and Lily recorded as orphaned. Sister recorded as Mrs Emily Cook

1912, they were sent to Anerley (I presume that is Anerley Residential School, Broadstairs)
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 August 25 04:39 BST (UK)
I see that Albert & Selina Town were alive for the 1911 census. What did they die of so close together?
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 August 25 05:00 BST (UK)
Is this Joseph Thomas’s death?

MINTON, JOSEPH  THOMAS     74 
GRO Reference: 1933  D Quarter in CHELSEA  Volume 01A  Page 448

And perhaps Elizabeth’s

MINTON, ELIZABETH       67 
GRO Reference: 1938  D Quarter in CHELSEA  Volume 01A  Page 388
 
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 August 25 07:58 BST (UK)
6th Dec 1909 Wandsworth
Enrolled Intermediate School Swaffield Road
 - Joseph William MINTON or USHER b. 20 June 1898
 - Henry MINTON or USHER b. 4 Nov 1900
 - Edith MINTON or USHER b. 14 May 1905
(Father – Joseph Minton, labourer, Shillington Street)



Baptism in Wandsworth Workhouse
Dec 1910
Charles Thomas MNTON
Father – Joseph Thomas (painter, Battersea)
Mother Elizabeth Saphira (sophia)
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 August 25 08:04 BST (UK)
Military Enlistment into 13th Norfolks (231)
8 July 1919
Recruitment at Kingston upon Thames, Surrey
Henry Victor Harry MINTON
age 18, Born Hammersmith London
Occupation – Stoker
5 ft 5½ inches tall, brown eyes, brown hair.
 
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 03 August 25 13:22 BST (UK)
Harry Victor Usher, b. October 05, 1900, Hammersmith

Unable to find a birth registration that contains mmn

GRO birth index

FANNY, HENRY  VICTOR 
Mother's Maiden Surname:
GRO Reference: 1900  D Quarter in FULHAM  Volume 01A  Page 206
Title: Re: Harry Victor Usher Parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 August 25 16:48 BST (UK)
Well done, jonwarrn. I don't know how you found it.
What a most strange way of indexing that birth. Mind boggling! ???