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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Zaphod99 on Saturday 02 August 25 10:00 BST (UK)
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What might W. A. S. Inspection be short for in an occupation on the 1939 register?
Zaph
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War Agency Survey Inspection. Abbreviation was used to indicate that the individual was employed by a war-related agency and subject to a survey or inspection.
Sandra
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War Agency Survey Inspection. Abbreviation was used to indicate that the individual was employed by a war-related agency and subject to a survey or inspection.
Sandra, I can't tell if this is just a guess, or if you have some source to back this up.
I am dubious for three reasons. First, this was September 1939 so while there was a War Office, most other government organisations still had their peacetime title. Technically speaking the country had only been at war for 27 days at that point. I can find no mention of a War Agency in TNA, Hansard* or elsewhere. Secondly "Survey Inspection" is tautologous. since in this context they mean the same thing. And lastly, in 1941 the War Damage Commission was set up to inspect and assess the damage to real property ('hereditaments') caused by enemy action, principally bombing, and to award payments to cover the cost of repair. If there had been a pre-existing Agency such as the one you mention I would have expected this fact to be noted in the War Damage Act 1941 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/4-5/12/pdfs/ukpga_19410012_en.pdf) since no doubt the War Damage Commission would have subsumed some or all of the duties of the earlier agency.
* there is one reference (https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1940-10-23/debates/42a49ff3-aaed-4413-b6ed-26bb25f3545d/BritishPrisonersOfWar?highlight=%22war%20agency%22#contribution-0d17e1ce-aa4e-4ac6-801f-1de5b7bfe594) in Hansard between 1 January 1930 and 31 Dec 1945 to a 'Central Prisoners of War Agency'.
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An inspection job related to Engineering?
Tony
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Connected to ‘Women’s Auxiliary Services’ ?
However, I’ve no evidence to justify beyond the tie in with the first letters of the abbreviation.
Is it possible to show the description as shown in the Register?
In any event will delve deeper.
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Can't find the source now Andy !! Oh, I wonder if it was one of those Al overviews !!
Another ..............maybe................
Welfare Assistance Section (Eng) (Eng for England)
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Sorry deleted last as a red herring.
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The only person I can find with this job description in the 1939 register is Ernest A. Thompson born 30th April 1908, single, living in Steadman Terrace, Bradford.
Occupation W.A.S inspection (Eng).
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Another ..............maybe................
Welfare Assistance Section (Eng) (Eng for England)
What’s the source for that, please Sandra?
I had thought that Eng might mean engineer/engineering :-\
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Yes, he's my one! How did you find him?
Zaph
The only person I can find with this job description in the 1939 register is Ernest A. Thompson born 30th April 1908, single, living in Steadman Terrace, Bradford.
Occupation W.A.S inspection (Eng).
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Wondering if the job was a reserved occupation maybe ‘Water and Sewerage’ with ‘Eng’ for Engineer?
However I couldn’t see that exact description in online sources with lists of reserved occupations during WW2.
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Yes, he's my one! How did you find him?
I searched the occupation on Ancestry. He was the only hit I got.
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Jen, how did you search for the occupation? I must be exceptionally thick today.
It does seem odd that you only got the one hit. Was he really the only man in the country who did that job?
Apart from that, I quite like the water & sewerage option, if this was Call My Bluff.
Zaph
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https://www.debenham-ops.org.uk/ReservedOccupations.pdf
Link to a list of reserved occupations which includes ‘Drainage and Sanitary Service’ ‘all occupations other than labourers’ which may fit with ‘W’ for Water and ‘S’ for sanitation?
Corroboration with the occupation of the Mr Thompson found by JenB would be great.
(A digression, there are some occupations on the list which is from not that long ago which makes me realise just how much our world has changed since then.)
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Jen, how did you search for the occupation? I must be exceptionally thick today.
It does seem odd that you only got the one hit. Was he really the only man in the country who did that job?
I put the occupation you quoted into the ‘occupation’ box on the Ancestry 1939 Register search, and ticked ‘Exact’. I only got the one hit.
I suppose there might have been others with the same occupation but it might have been differently entered on the register
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I can't believe that I had never noticed the OCCUPATION field for searching. Thank you.
Zaph
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Welding and Smelting Inspection (Engineer)?
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Welding and Smelting Inspection (Engineer)?
Welding and smelting are very different activities. Although (critical/structural) welds might be inspected, I can't think what 'inspection' would take place for smelting - it would be the resulting castings which might be inspected for quality, and that would probaby be a "casting inspector".
I'd lean towards the possibility of "Water and Sanitary Inspect(or) (Engineering)".
'Sanitary Inspector' was a formal and statutory occupation, roughly equating to the modern environmental health officer.
When Local Authorities were responsible for the supply of clean water and the provision of sewerage this may have come under the domain of the 'Chief Sanitary Inspector'. The functions of this department would have included both the infrastructure (engineering) and quality/'wholesomeness'. The latter is what evolved into Environmental Health.
So I think it is plausible someone would describe themselves as a "Water and Sanitary Inspector (Engineering)"... but I have absolutely no proof of this, other than past experience working in a drainage department where such words regularly cropped up in the historic records.
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Fair enough, but considering this is the only example of this occupation in the entire 1939 Register, I imagine whoever wrote it either made a mistake or invented this abbreviation. ???
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As many of Mr Thompson's neighbours in the 1939 Register were involved in the woollen trade, might I suggest that he was possibly a Weaving and Spinning Inspector. The importance of which role is currently summarised via Google AI Overview.
Willyam
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Welding and Smelting Inspection (Engineer)?
Welding and smelting are very different activities. Although (critical/structural) welds might be inspected, I can't think what 'inspection' would take place for smelting - it would be the resulting castings which might be inspected for quality, and that would probaby be a "casting inspector".
Yes, they are different. How about Welding and Soldering ? (not very serious, but if we are going in that direction ?) ;D
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Just to throw more confusion in, does anyone think that if in the original the A is indeed a capital letter, followed by a full stop, then it is unlikely to be an abbreviation of “and”
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Mazi, I think that is a very good point and you are correct. I don't think it stands for the word 'and'.
Zaph
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As written on the 1939 form it is indeed as originally posted by Zaphod.
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So... it's actually W. A. S Inspection (ENG) as you had posted before, JenB ;D
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I'm sure I've heard the expression "Wool, Acrylic and Silk" somewhere!!! ???
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Acrylic yarn wasn't invented until 1940s
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Acrylic yarn wasn't invented until 1940s
Maybe Bradford was ahead of the game :)
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When I search for occupation "W. S. Inspection" in Bradford in the 1939 Register on Ancestry another chap comes up - John S Brown, DOB 1917 - can someone with a subscription have a look?
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Ernest A Thompson was Ernest Allen Thompson, born in Norwich. His father's WWI service record is on Ancestry which list spouse and children with birthdates. It looks like he married in Bradford in 1941 to Margaret Hensby. He died in 1960 in Bradford and left a will
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Ernest A Thompson was Ernest Allen Thompson, born in Norwich. His father's WWI service record is on Ancestry which list spouse and children with birthdates. It looks like he married in Bradford in 1941 to Margaret Hensby. He died in 1960 in Bradford and left a will
Minor correction, Lizzie, Ernest and Margaret married in 1944.
It’s a shame it’s not possible to get cheap digital copies of marriage certificates- it might just possibly have given a clue to his occupation.
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Ernest A Thompson was Ernest Allen Thompson, born in Norwich. His father's WWI service record is on Ancestry which list spouse and children with birthdates. It looks like he married in Bradford in 1941 to Margaret Hensby. He died in 1960 in Bradford and left a will
Minor correction, Lizzie, Ernest and Margaret married in 1944.
It’s a shame it’s not possible to get cheap digital copies of marriage certificates- it might just possibly have given a clue to his occupation.
Ah yes 1944 was what I intended to type. I use the numbers in a block of 9 at the right of the keyboard (not the top row), and I must have hit the 1 instead of 4.
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Possible children in 1947 and 1959 (seems a big gap)
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So... it's actually W. A. S Inspection (ENG) as you had posted before, JenB ;D
I don't think you can assume much from the omission of a stop after the S . I also tend to favour the W meaning War (it had been expected for some time) and the likelihood that ENG suggests engineering rather than England ?
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So... it's actually W. A. S Inspection (ENG) as you had posted before, JenB ;D
I don't think you can assume much from the omission of a stop after the S . I also tend to favour the W meaning War (it had been expected for some time) and the likelihood that ENG suggests engineering rather than England ?
Without the "inspection" I'd have suggested "War - Active Service" but that doesn't seem to fit.
I have seen other people with "WAS" (meaning 'previously') before some other occupation - such as "WAS Chief Bottle Washer". I suppose the dots could have been added in error at some point in the process, but that's probably a bit of straw clutching.
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A very long time ago I was responsible for producing items used in the manufacture of instruments,
Any which were to be used for instruments in RAF or Navy equipment had to pass an inspection, I think it was then known as A.I.S inspection certificate, without which the actual instrument manufacturer would reject them
I wonder if this is something similar
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When I search for occupation "W. S. Inspection" in Bradford in the 1939 Register on Ancestry another chap comes up - John S Brown, DOB 1917 - can someone with a subscription have a look?
The entry for John S Brown, gives occupation as W.O. Inspection Engineer Cll. The "Cll" part is not clear.
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When I search for occupation "W. S. Inspection" in Bradford in the 1939 Register on Ancestry another chap comes up - John S Brown, DOB 1917 - can someone with a subscription have a look?
The entry for John S Brown, gives occupation as W.O. Inspection Engineer Cll. The "Cll" part is not clear.
Could the W.O. be war office, and the Cll be short for civilian.
In which case I hazard a guess that the “A.” is admiralty or air
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When I search for occupation "W. S. Inspection" in Bradford in the 1939 Register on Ancestry another chap comes up - John S Brown, DOB 1917 - can someone with a subscription have a look?
The entry for John S Brown, gives occupation as W.O. Inspection Engineer Cll. The "Cll" part is not clear.
Could the W.O. be war office, and the Cll be short for civilian.
In which case I hazard a guess that the “A.” is admiralty or air
Forgive me, but I’m losing the plot a bit.
The John Brown entry (reply #36) doesn’t contain the letter ‘A’. The only similarity it has to Ernest Thompson’s occupation is the letter W and the word ‘Inspection’.
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Perhaps I’m jumping the gun a bit but to me the phrase ‘inspection eng(ineer) is a dead giveaway,
I have a wartime ships compass in its box and it is covered with admiralty inspection certificates.
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It may not be relevant but W.A.S appears often under civil defence (not occupation), sometimes with ARP or First Aid after it.
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Just to add to all the ideas Goggle search has this to say ??? ???
"In the 1939 Register, "W. A. S" likely refers to Women's Auxiliary Service, which was a part of the civil defence services during World War II. The register includes various abbreviations to denote different roles within institutions, with "W. A. S" being one of them." ;D ;D
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Just to add to all the ideas Goggle search has this to say ??? ???
"In the 1939 Register, "W. A. S" likely refers to Women's Auxiliary Service, which was a part of the civil defence services during World War II. The register includes various abbreviations to denote different roles within institutions, with "W. A. S" being one of them." ;D ;D
That makes sense, especially now when I look at the names. ::)
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Just to add to all the ideas Goggle search has this to say ??? ???
"In the 1939 Register, "W. A. S" likely refers to Women's Auxiliary Service, which was a part of the civil defence services during World War II. The register includes various abbreviations to denote different roles within institutions, with "W. A. S" being one of them." ;D ;D
It's possible that is a Google AI hallucination. There was a pre-war "Women's Auxiliary Service" which was a renamed Women's Police Service. But it isn't clear what was left of it in 1939.
In June 1940 Parliament was told "It is extremely doubtful whether this so-called organisation has any corporate existence at the present time"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_Police_Service#Decline
And why would a man living in Bradford be 'inspecting' it?
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Would a man be a W. A. S. Inspection (Eng) if W. A. S. was Women's Auxiliary Service?
Zaph
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Maybe this publication has the answer?
January 24 2025
Occupational Titles in Census Data: England and Wales
Matteo Calabrese, Bas van Leeuwen
Author and Article Information
The Journal of Interdisciplinary History (2024) 55 (2): 243–267.
https://doi.org/10.1162/jinh_a_02039
Abstract
Historical census data are a pivotal source for studying occupational dynamics, yet analyzing them is often challenging due to the large number of unique occupations and the need to standardize unspecific titles. A new methodology for attributing occupational titles to industrial sectors, demonstrated with the 1939 National Register for England and Wales (a dataset of approximately 42 million entries), produces findings that align with the trends across the agriculture and mining, secondary, and tertiary sectors identified in previous studies. At the subsector level, however, this procedure revises the shares for agricultural workers and individuals employed across the tertiary subsectors. At the district level, the sectoral allocation process results in a redistribution of workers into certain secondary subsectors driven by more precise sectoral estimations for previously underrepresented groups and the empirical allocation of generic laborers.