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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: wifeofanirishman on Tuesday 29 July 25 14:08 BST (UK)
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My husband has built and enormous family tree of the McCollum family of Strabane.
His father's mother had 3 sons. None have their fathers name on birth certificates.
What is strange is that my husbands father has his christian name and one other brother, but the youngest just has Male - no christian name then McCollum no fathers details then a version of her name plus the date this child was born in 1933.
This child lived until he was 73 and is buried in Strabane graveyard with all the other McCollum's.
How does a birth get registered with so little information. Surely they would need birth certificate later in life?? He was known as Billy to family
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Not unusual for no first name on the birth certificate if he was born in a hospital.
For example here is 5 on one page from the Coombe Dublin in 1924
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1924/01098/1461400.pdf
And another 5 from the Rotunda Dublin 1924
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1924/01098/1461237.pdf
Note cert 469 from the Rotunda
Only a few years ago I heard a member of staff in the local Registry office advising a couple to choose a name before registering their baby’s birth so sounds like it can still happen.
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The father's name on birth certificate for illegitimate children was only supposed to appear on the certificate if he came with the child's mother to register the birth (presumably for mother naming someone who might not have been the child's father).
When I had my children in hospital in the 1990s the local registrar came round the maternity ward a few days each week giving mothers the option to do the registration right away. By that time they were very reluctant to do a registration without Christian name(s) being chosen.
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Technically, the registration was (is?) of a birth, not a name.
Older registration forms had a separate column to add Christian names added after initial registration.
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Older registration forms had a separate column to add Christian names added after initial registration.
For that it was necessary to bring a baptismal certificate from the church signed by the minister and to pay a fee [as quarterly returns may have been already submitted and the entry had to be annotated with the change in both the Strabane ledger and any copy; GRONI then with head office in Belfast]. Many didn't bother. My Gran got through life and pension without a forname on her 1906 birth registration. Her 1919 paper copy to satisfy the Factory & Workshops Act regulations for 13-14 year olds has Margaret written the the Baptismal column by herself (different ink and hand from the rest).
Others got through life with a 'Certificate of Registry of Birth' or Short birth cert which has just the name + surname of the child, DOB, and District of Registration; no mother or father or place of birth. Thats what I used for employment and anything else as was the only copy I had after leaving home. My parents did have a full cert purchased on the day of registration too (1965), that I now have, but have not needed to produce so far. Which the passport office needed c.1980 couldn't tell you, thereafter it was renewed so not necessary.
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I heard a talk by the then head of GRONI a couple of years ago. She mentioned that occasionally people still register births without a forename. It doesn’t create a very useful certificate as has been commented but it does happen. She also mentioned that in NI only it is possible to change a forename on a birth certificate (twice I think) which I have never come across before. That isn’t allowed in Scotland, England or Wales. Not sure about the Republic of Ireland.
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Elwyn
I don't know about the twice bit. But Once was possible possible in all juristictions. Look at a birth cert image from England and Wales Column 10 is Name entered after registration in 1837 and on my mother's 1943 cert issued on the registration day. A baptismal name/ a forname can be added or altered up to 12 months after the birth by the 1953 Births & Deaths Act currently in force and the previous back to the 1836 Act (then up to 6 months after). https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/1-2/20/section/13/enacted
Also possible to re-register name/birth after Legitimization by subsequent marriage of parents.
forms and payment in appendix 1874 Act
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/37-38/88/schedules/enacted
As Ireland used the Adaptment of Enactments to continue use of a lot of pre-partition legislation, was the same there, the 1863 Act + Births and Deaths Registration Act (Ireland), 1880, with a 12 month window. Parents not recognising the sacrament of baptism could also change a name themselves using Form B name not given in Baptism.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/43-44/13/pdfs/ukpga_18800013_en.pdf [section 8 and Schedule 1 forms A,B,C]
From 1956 a TWO year window was allowed in Northern Ireland, that is different from England & Wales. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisro/1956/61/contents/made
But in Ireland under the Vital Statistics and Births, Deaths and Marriages Registration Act, 1952 there is no time limit.
"Registration of birth—removal of time limit for registration of name or of alteration of name." https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1952/act/8/enacted/en/html
Civil Registration Act 2004 (Ireland) still there https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/3/section/25/enacted/en/html#sec25
Scotland it was also possible to add a name after Baptism by the original 1854 Act (up to six months after, so the same as the original 1836 E&W Act).
An Act to provide for the better regulation of Births, Deaths, and Marriages in Scotland. [7 Aug 1854]
http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/View?path=Browse/Legislation%20(by%20date)&active=yes&mno=4048
XXXII. Name given in Baptism after Registration may be registered within Six Months. ...
and XXXIII. Provision for Name given without Baptism after Registration. In the Case of any Child of Parents not recognizing the Sacrament of Baptism or Infant Baptism, it shall be lawful for such Parents or the Guardians of such Child, within Six Months after the Birth of any such Child shall have been registered, or if after Six Months, then only with the written Authority of the Sheriff, granted on a Statement of the Circumstances submitted to him, when any Name shall have been given to any such Child by the Parents or Guardians of such Child, other than that by which it may have been registered, to deliver to the Registrar in whose Custody the Register of the Birth of such Child shall be, a Certificate in the Form of the Schedule (E.) to this Act annexed, or to the like Effect, signed by such Parents or Guardians, whereupon, and upon Payment of a Fee of One Shilling, such Registrar shall, without Erasure as aforesaid, register therein the Name of such Child; and such Certificate shall be certified and transmitted by the Registrar to the Registrar General in the like Manner and to the like Effect as is herein-before prescribed regarding Certificates in relation to Names given in Baptism.
1836 England & Wales wording:
XXIV. And be it enacted, That if any Child born in England whose Birth shall have been registered as aforesaid shall, within Six Calendar Months next after it shall have been so registered, have any Name given to it in Baptism, the parent or Guardian of such Child, or other Person procuring such Name to be given, may within Seven Days next after such Baptism, procure and deliver to the registrar or Superintendent Registrar, in whose Custody the Register of Birth of the Child may then happen to be, a Certificate, according to the Form of Schedule (G.) to this Act annexed, signed by the Minister who shall have performed the Rite of Baptism, which Certificate such Minister is hereby required to deliver immediately after the Baptism, whenever the same shall then be demanded, on Payment of the Fee of One Shilling, which he shall be therefore entitled to receive; and the said Registrar or Superintendent Registrar, upon Receipt of such Certificate and on Payment of the Fee of One Shilling, which he shall therefore be entitled to receive, shall without any Erasure of the original Entry, forthwith register therein that the Child was baptized by such Name, and the Registrar shall thereupon certify upon the said Certificate the additional Entry so made, and shall forthwith send the said Certificate through the Post Office to the Registrar General.
The Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages (Scotland) Act 1965 allows one change of name and one change of surname in respect of any one child after Baptism under clause 4, but sub-clause 5 for teenagers/adults wishing to eg adopt step-fathers name were allowed one change of name and three changes of surname https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1965/49/section/43/enacted
Example of a baptismal forname change 1896 (bottom row)
https://irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1896/02176/1824139.pdf
Registered as Joseph Irvine Wetherall 13 Apr 1896 for birth 29 Mar 1896. David Irwin by baptism 3 Mar 1897.
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Jon,
Much obliged for that detail.
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I can only comment on the process in E/W ....but registering a birth still does not require the child to be given a forename and such registrations do happen occasionally.
A "Space 17" amendment ( previously Column 10) can be made later to add, or change, the forename of the child and that can be either after baptism or just on a change of mind by the parents. If the name is changed there has to be evidence that the name was given/used in the first 12 months after the initial registration, although the actual change can be recorded at any time later.
The 1836 Act covers change of name after baptism, the 1874 Act included the process for the name to be changed with or without the baptism requirement.
Re-registrations are a complete different process and most commonly done after the later marriage of the parents, or to add an unmarried father who wasn't named o the original entry. In certain circumstances a re-registration will allow the forename(s), and sometimes the surname, to be changed, but can be recognised as re-registrations because they will generate a completely new entry, and different index number.
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Not relevant as such but on the subject of making changes to birth certs.
A 1922 change to a 1887 birth cert, the child's gender and first name were incorrect (Surname mis-spelt but no correction to that), the note on the side is cut off but I think it's clear enough to read that John the 'baby's' brother swore a Statutory Declaration and provided the baptism cert.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/cert_amends/cert_1887/1940351a.pdf
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A Statutory Declaration was required to modify facts as a marginal annotation with the original entry preserved. Re-registration under Legitimacy Act (NI) 1928 or Ireland (1931) created an additional new entry.
Dublin GRO continued to be copied with changes in Belfast after partition for births that occurred pre-partition so official paper certificates issued from either location/juristiction would contain the same info. Have seen several, below is one.
https://irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1910/01563/1631013.pdf
Entry #440 for a 1910 birth in Belfast with surname corrected from Porter to Porte in 1939 by S.D. by the mother who was the original informant.
Others where original informant has died may say something along the lines of by XX who was aware of the true facts of the matter, or your Newbridge one the S.D was by an elder brother 'present at the birth', wonder what age he was in 1887.