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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Antony1977 on Monday 28 July 25 10:10 BST (UK)

Title: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Antony1977 on Monday 28 July 25 10:10 BST (UK)
My partners family history states that a relative of hers married in 1925, groom being 21 and bride being 12 😱

Attached cert suggests it’s true

However looking at 1939 register suggests DObS as

William george mallet bn
2nd April 1892
Gladys whitehead bn
3rd Sept 1891

Wedding 2nd April 1925

So ages at time of marriage would be early to mid 30s

I’ve checked GRO but can’t for the life of me find any certs for those dobs or even the year of birth if she was actually 12

Can anyone help with gro for Gladys and William?
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Marmalady on Monday 28 July 25 10:16 BST (UK)
The wedding on that certificate took place on 25th April, not 2nd (can't see year in the clip shown)
The groom was 21 and the bride was 22, not 12
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Antony1977 on Monday 28 July 25 10:18 BST (UK)
The wedding on that certificate took place on 25th April, not 2nd (can't see year in the clip shown)
The groom was 21 and the bride was 22, not 12

That’s what I said to my partner. But I can’t find the GROs to back me up and the 1939 register suggests they are a lot older 🤔
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Marmalady on Monday 28 July 25 10:27 BST (UK)
According to FreeBMD
Gladys M Whitehead and William G Mallet were married in June quarter 1914 in the Northleach district of Gloucestershire
(June quarter covers April, May, June -- so fits the April 25th date)

There are two possible births that are worth investigating:
Gladys Mary Whitehead Northleach Sept qtr 1891
Gladys May Whitehead Salford  Sept qtr 1892

but for a Sept birth , I would expect a Dec qtr registration
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Antony1977 on Monday 28 July 25 10:28 BST (UK)
Looking at my research from years ago ( which was minimal as I was supposed to be looking at paternal side) I had the wedding date as April 25th 1925)

It was only as a result of my partners relative saying it was well known in the family that she was 12 that I thought I’d take a look
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: MollyC on Monday 28 July 25 10:29 BST (UK)
From FreeBMD Births (corrected):
Whitehead, Gladys Mary  Northleach  6a 378  SepQ 1891
Mallett, William George   Crediton 5b 381   SepQ 1894

(There are three others named William George Mallett 1891-95)

Bride was 23. Looks like the groom was only aged 20.  Possibly born April but not registered until July. 
What birth dates do you have in 1939?
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: fiddlerslass on Monday 28 July 25 10:30 BST (UK)
The bride is on the 1901 census with father James a police constable and mother Rose, sister Elsie Maud. This is the birth registration of the 2 sisters, Gladys actually registered with second name Mary!

    WHITEHEAD, ELSIE  MAUD      BIGNELL     
GRO Reference: 1889  S Quarter in NORTHLEACH  Volume 06A  Page 378
   WHITEHEAD, GLADYS  MARY      BIGNELL     
GRO Reference: 1891  S Quarter in NORTHLEACH  Volume 06A  Page 378

Marriage
Marriages Jun 1882   
BIGNELL    Rose        Tetbury    6a   617    


Whitehead    James         Tetbury    6a   617   

 

Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Antony1977 on Monday 28 July 25 10:31 BST (UK)
William george mallet bn
2nd April 1892
Gladys whitehead bn
3rd Sept 1891

That was from 1939 register
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Antony1977 on Monday 28 July 25 10:37 BST (UK)
The bride is on the 1901 census with father James a police constable and mother Rose, sister Elsie Maud. This is the birth registration of the 2 sisters, Gladys actually registered with second name Mary!

    WHITEHEAD, ELSIE  MAUD      BIGNELL     
GRO Reference: 1889  S Quarter in NORTHLEACH  Volume 06A  Page 378
   WHITEHEAD, GLADYS  MARY      BIGNELL     
GRO Reference: 1891  S Quarter in NORTHLEACH  Volume 06A  Page 378

Marriage
Marriages Jun 1882   
BIGNELL    Rose        Tetbury    6a   617    


Whitehead    James         Tetbury    6a   617



Thanks for your help
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: MollyC on Monday 28 July 25 16:47 BST (UK)
Where is Gladys in the 1901 census, NW or SW England?  What age and place of birth?
I think both need their ages checking in 1911 and 1921 to form likely conclusions.

I have corrected Gladys' birth from Salford to Northleach in reply #5, but that means she was 33 at the marriage in April 1925, not 22 as on the cert, because she would have turned 33 on 3 Sep 1924 (and was probably registered in SepQ).

If William George Mallett was born 2 Apr 1892 as per 1939 register, then his birth must be the registration in Gloucester, JunQ 1892 and he was 33 at the marriage.
If he was born 2 Apr 1894 and registered at Crediton, he had just turned 31 before the marriage on 25 Apr 1925, but his birth must have been registered at least 3 months later, in the Sep quarter.

I think!  Please check my calculations.
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Antony1977 on Monday 28 July 25 16:51 BST (UK)
Will do in a bit

I researched Gladys dad James, he was a ex policeman at the time of the marriage of Gladys

I’ve Found he lived in the police station in Northleach with his wife rose so that would give more weight to it being northleach Gladys and not Salford Gladys

He retired in 1912
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: MollyC on Monday 28 July 25 17:07 BST (UK)
However if they were married in 1914, then Gladys would have been 12 and William would have been 12 or 10 - which bears out your original story.

Correction: They would have been 22.  See Reply#15
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Marmalady on Monday 28 July 25 17:10 BST (UK)
However if they were married in 1914, then Gladys would have been 12 and William would have been 12 or 10 - which bears out your original story.
1914 - 1892 =22, not 12
She would have had to be born in 1902 to be 12 at the time of a 1914 marriage
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Antony1977 on Monday 28 July 25 17:11 BST (UK)
I think the entry from Fiddlerslass confirms the GRO birth certificate entry

The bride is on the 1901 census with father James a police constable and mother Rose, sister Elsie Maud.

This is the birth registration of the 2 sisters, Gladys actually registered with second name Mary!

    WHITEHEAD, ELSIE  MAUD      BIGNELL     
GRO Reference: 1889  S Quarter in NORTHLEACH  Volume 06A  Page 378
   WHITEHEAD, GLADYS  MARY      BIGNELL     
GRO Reference: 1891  S Quarter in NORTHLEACH  Volume 06A  Page 378

  

According to FreeBMD

Gladys M Whitehead and William G Mallet were married in June quarter 1914 in the Northleach district of Gloucestershire

(June quarter cover April, May, June -- so fits the April 25th date)



 
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Millmoor on Monday 28 July 25 17:34 BST (UK)
There is a baptism for Gladys May  Whitehaed in Northleach  in 1891

Baptism 25th October Born 3rd Sept Parents James and Rose Whitehead. Father's occupation Police Constable. Abode is Prison Stamfsnelt( place name difficult to be sure off). Presumably this is the correctional facility in the parish and where James was an employee not an inmate!

Dob therefore confirms the 1939 register.

William
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: MollyC on Monday 28 July 25 17:43 BST (UK)
You are quite correct and I had got myself in a twist with this!  The marriage certificate must be 1914, not 1925.  Both were aged 22, the bride being 7 months older than the groom.

Looking at age at death, they would appear to be a pair who were registered in Birmingham.

Mallett William G    61    Birmingham 9c 445  JunQ 1953 - fits a birth in Apr 1892
Mallett Gladys M    77    Birmingham 9C 530  DecQ 1968 - fits a birth in Sep 1891
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 28 July 25 17:47 BST (UK)
Quote
Stamfsnelt

Hampnett.  That's where Northleach prison is.
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Antony1977 on Monday 28 July 25 17:47 BST (UK)
You are quite correct and I had got myself in a twist with this!  The marriage certificate must be 1914, not 1925.  Both were aged 22, the bride being 7 months older than the groom.

Looking at age at death, they would appear to be a pair who were registered in Birmingham.

Mallett William G  61   Birmingham 9c 445  Jun 1953 - fits a birth in Apr 1892
Mallett Gladys M  77   Birmingham 9C 530  Dec 1968 - fits a birth in Sep 1891

No problem , thanks for the help

Perhaps if they were more accurate on documents back then this would t have arisen, but I suppose they never thought people from the future would have an interest in them!
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: jonwarrn on Monday 28 July 25 18:02 BST (UK)
Mallen in the 1921 census free TS?
In Smethwick (Kings Norton RD)
William George Mallen, 29 yrs 2 mo, born Gloucester, Gloucestershire
Gladys Mary Mallen, 29 yrs 9 mo, Northleach, Gloucestershire
Leslie Arnold Mallen, 3 yrs 2 mo, Birmingham, Warwickshire
Charles James Mallen, 8 mo, Birmingham, Warwickshire
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Monday 28 July 25 18:17 BST (UK)
My partners family history states that a relative of hers married in 1925, groom being 21 and bride being 12 😱

Attached cert suggests it’s true

I think the handwriting doesn't suggest that at all.  Apart from the improbability of being married at 12, the written digits indicate that the writer uses a single stroke for a 1, as in the 21 above.  In any case a minister would not sanction such a marriage !
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: Antony1977 on Monday 28 July 25 18:20 BST (UK)
My partners family history states that a relative of hers married in 1925, groom being 21 and bride being 12 😱

Attached cert suggests it’s true

I think the handwriting doesn't suggest that at all.  Apart from the improbability of being married at 12, the written digits indicate that the writer uses a single stroke for a 1, as in the 21 above.  In any case a minister would not sanction such a marriage !


Appears back in the olden days it was allowed

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Marriage_Act_1929
Title: Re: Just can’t find birth cert ?
Post by: jonwarrn on Monday 28 July 25 18:24 BST (UK)
Mallen in the 1921 census free TS?
In Smethwick (Kings Norton RD)

MALLETT, LESLIE  ARNOLD GEORGE    
Mother's Maiden Surname: WHITEHEAD 
GRO Reference: 1918  M Quarter in KINGS NORTON  Volume 06D  Page 71
   
MALLETT, CHARLES  JAMES     
Mother's Maiden Surname: WHITEHEAD 
GRO Reference: 1920  D Quarter in KINGS NORTON  Volume 06D  Page 62