RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: Norfolk Nan on Saturday 26 July 25 14:53 BST (UK)
-
Hello
Dorothy Keating, born 1888 in Persia (father in army) but back in Islington, Middlesex in 1891 census In 1894 she is sent from Liverpool to Quebec, Canada on the Mongolian, I have no idea of the circumstances or who sent her - the passenger list showed her among a number of other unrelated young children with no obvious relative or adult escort so it's likely she was being sent as a Home Child. So, can anyone tell me how I can discover the facts please? All pointers would be very welcome. Thank you.
-
Did she have a sister Margaret who was sent to Canada as a home child - ??
Canada Passenger List shows a Margaret Keating, aged 9 years. Landed Halifax Nova Scotia.
19 March 1893 on the Sardinian.
1901 census Durham Ontario
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KH2J-F2G?lang=en
In 1908 a marriage of Margaret Keating to William Thomas Lingard. Parents listed as John Keating and Mary Mathison ?? Ancestry tree gives her name as Margaret Clitton Keating. Father Richard John Keating and mother Mary Mathieson Flannery.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KSZJ-GW6?lang=en
1911 census - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV9T-MG6M?lang=en
FIND A GRAVE
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tw1/
Margaret passed in 1936 - burial Port Hope Union Cemetery
Port Hope, Northumberland County, Ontario, Canada
Plot 16, Section SR
Added Death Certificate - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JKNJ-4T7?lang=en
husband William Thomas Lingard - 1889 -1967
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/199462538/william_thomas-lingard
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/199462538/william_thomas-lingard#view-photo=186402396
Seems to be a brother who married in Canada 1927 - Charles Edward Keating.
Sandra
-
Hello and thank you.
Dorothy's father was Richard Bernard Keating and mum, Mary Flannery, I don't know about the other names, and there was a brother Charles but a Margaret wasn't mentioned on the 1891 census. But thank you - I'll store that away! Any ideas about the circumstances Margaret went to Canada?
-
Richard B Keating - Spouse Mary Flannery
Child Charles Edward Keating- marriage to Dorothy Hill - 1927
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKMR-JTDC?lang=en
A death of Charles Edward Keating in New Zealand - 1971
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKDL-Q594?lang=en
Death Certificate of Margaret Keating/Lingard have added above as well
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JKNJ-4T7?lang=en
Sandra
-
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
KEATING, MARGARET FLANNERY
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in CANTERBURY Volume 02A Page 793
Sandra
-
Thanks for that, I wonder where she was in 1891? But why did the girls go to Canada? The boys went into the army and navy and travelled I think. Mum died in 1902.
-
1891 census East Grinstead, East Grinstead, Sussex,
Margaret Keating born Canterbury Kent 1884.
Age 7 - Relationship Orphan
Civil parish East Grinstead
Residence Place East Grinstead, East Grinstead, Sussex, England
Registration District East Grinstead
Sub registration district East Grinstead.
loads of children listed as orphans on this entry.
St Margaret's Home for sisterhood orphanage and school. East Grinstead.
Sandra
-
Well that's confusing. Her parents were alive! A puzzle ???
-
Hello
Dorothy Keating, born 1888 in Persia (father in army) but back in Islington, Middlesex in 1891 census In 1894 she is sent from Liverpool to Quebec, Canada on the Mongolian, I have no idea of the circumstances or who sent her - the passenger list showed her among a number of other unrelated young children with no obvious relative or adult escort so it's likely she was being sent as a Home Child. So, can anyone tell me how I can discover the facts please? All pointers would be very welcome. Thank you.
Going back to the original question, I've located the image of the outgoing record for the Mongolian and I've taken a look the image of the record that you found.
The Mongolian set sail from Liverpool on 14 June 1894 bound for Quebec and Montreal.
As you say, there were many children on board including Dorothy. Some of the children were listed (bracketed together) as being "from the workhouse"). Dorothy was among a group marked as "not from the workhouse".
There is a note on the record that says all of the children were "Revd Father Ledoon's Party". At least, that's what I think it says.
There is also a note saying "for Montreal" so I assume that was were Dorothy and the other children were headed, not Quebec.
The children were in fact accompanied by an adult, namely a 55 matron called "Mrs Soffe".
1891 Census of Nigara, Ontario in Canada records that Hannah Soffe (matron age 50, born England) was living with a very large number of children all of whom had been born in England. I have not yet identified the property in question, but it was probably a children's home.
-
Definitely the Hannah Soffe I found.
One of the other occupants in the 1891 Census was a Miss Rye. Just found a newspaper item dated 2 June 1894 recording the minutes of the weekly meeting of the Board of Guardians for Minster in Thanet, Kent. It says that "Miss M S Rye wrote saying that the four girls from the workhouse would sail for Canada in the ship Mongolian, on June 14th. They must meet her at Euston Station, London, on June 13th at 11 am. A doctor's certificate that each child is in good health would be required on June 7th, together with a cheque for £36 for the emigration expenses."
So, Miss Rye seems to have been in the business in accepting waifs and strays from England and arranging for their emigration to Canada. But who was she working for? Revd Father Ledoon? And where was this children's home in Niagara?
-
from Google
In the 19th century, Niagara was home to "Our Western Home," a reception center for British Home Children, a program that sent orphaned and impoverished children from the UK to Canada for foster care and work. Specifically, the former Niagara Courthouse and Gaol were converted into this home by Maria Rye in 1868. These children, often referred to as "Rye Girls," were typically between 5 and 12 years old and were trained in domestic tasks before being placed with families.
-
Miss Rye's Emigration Home for Destitute Little Girls, Peckham, London
https://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/PeckhamMissRye/
Added: Maria Susan Rye (1829-1903)
-
Marie Rye Homes child database.
https://www.britishhomechildren.com/mrhcdatabase
Sandra
-
Thank you, Dave. I didn't see those details, either I missed them or the version I saw was a rough list. But that's really useful, gives me more to work with. Thank you.
And thank you, Sandra and Alanboyd. More interesting info... it's all very sad. Wonder what happened to Dorothy? I know one brother spent time in Canada but then headed for New Zealand, and a younger half brother followed her to Canada but under his own steam. I'd like to think the pair met up...
-
1891 census East Grinstead, East Grinstead, Sussex,
Margaret Keating born Canterbury Kent 1884.
Age 7 - Relationship Orphan
Civil parish East Grinstead
Residence Place East Grinstead, East Grinstead, Sussex, England
Registration District East Grinstead
Sub registration district East Grinstead.
loads of children listed as orphans on this entry.
St Margaret's Home for sisterhood orphanage and school. East Grinstead.
Sandra
St Margaret's orphanage for girls, East Grinstead. Sussex.
https://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/EastGrinsteadStMargaret/
-
Thank you. But I still don't understand why one daughter is in an orphanage in Kent when the rest of the family is in Islington? All very odd!
-
Charles Edward Keating 1883 Kent England aged 44 years, crossed the border USA to Cobourg, Ontario, Canada, arriving 13 March 1927. Going to sister Mrs Lingard, Barratt Street, Port Hope, Ontario.
Had a brother Richard Keating, Hartlepool, Durham.
Sandra
-
So, Miss Rye seems to have been in the business in accepting waifs and strays from England and arranging for their emigration to Canada. But who was she working for? Revd Father Ledoon? And where was this children's home in Niagara?
There are newspaper snippets which refer to Father Thomas Seddon/FatherSeddons of the Westminster diocese and children to Canada.
1891 101/75
Thomas Seddon, 54 yrs is a priest in Marylebone.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tw2/
There are other articles online which mention his work.
-
Have you thought of adding Dorothy Keating to the special interests board for British Home Children ?
http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/dbsig/index.php?dbsig_num=1
Added:- Rev Thomas Seddon passed in 1898 on a journey to Canada with Home Children
Evening Standard
London, Greater London, England
Tue, 27 Sept 1898
Page 3
https://www.newspapers.com/article/evening-standard/177518054/
https://britishhomechild.com/resources/sending-agencies-organizations/catholic-child-immigration-from-england-and-liverpool/
If you use facebook - there is a Home Children Canada Research Group.
Sandra
-
I didn't know about the special interest page so thanks for that, I'll take a look.
-
There was a scheme organised in Manchester’s poorest neighbourhood ,the inappropriately named Angel Meadow,
The worst slum in Europe .
A centre was opened fot the children to get some education,food and clothing and for girls shelter.
One of the American writer of Hymns - either Sankey or Moody, visited and he instigated the transporting of those children to American farms .There is no real record of how well they fared,but certainly there were accidents and tragedies.
I have no idea if their parents were consulted or even if the children knew their parents.They literally were street urchins ,begging and probably having to steal to keep alive.
The organisation was called “Charter Street Mission “.
Viktoria.
-
Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who contributed and shared their research expertise here. Your time and efforts are appreciated.
I'm still interested in Dorothy and her life in Canada but it's just out of curiosity, the Keatings aren't in my family tree exactly. A while ago I discovered that my 3xggrandfather had fathered a child with Mary Keating in 1892. It was a bit of a shock as he was a 60-ish widower and she was nearly 25 years his junior. A second boy was born but shortly died. The three spent most of the next decade in the workhouse in Islington before Mary died of TB in 1902. Their child took himself off to Canada after a stint in the army and now I imagine that he was looking for his half-sisters? He stayed and made his own family.
I didn't know anything about Mary's life before 1892 but found her, with first husband and three older children, in Islington in 1891 I was surprised and curious. It was easy to track the lives of the two boys but the father seemed to disappear - I think he died in 1920 - as did Dorothy, until I found her on a ship bound for Canada. Clearly something happened to shatter the Keating family but perhaps it was already fragmenting if Margaret had been placed in an orphanage by 1891! I expect I'll never know the full story but it's a sad, sorry one.
Thank you again. ;D
-
A sad tale indeed.
I have not been able to find any trace of Dorothy after her arrival in Montreal. I suspect that given her age she might have been adopted into a family there and had her surname changed.
Anyway, food for thought.
PB
-
Have you traced the half brother in Canada ? Perhaps an obituary might mention a name if he did make any contact.
He did use the Keating name on workhouse records but did he use the Keating name in Canada or did he perhaps use his biological fathers name ?
Sandra