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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: collwyn ap tangno on Wednesday 23 July 25 12:07 BST (UK)
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hello, I’ve got a dna link on ancestry that I’m trying to fathom.
I’ve got the following: Ellis John Roberts ( born 4th october 1878 no. 2 corn hill place) son of William Roberts (born 1850 machynlleth) and Jane Roberts ( born 1851 to 1849 Tremadoc/ ynyscynhaiarn).
Jane Roberts was the daughter of William Roberts ( b1821 ynyscynhaiarn) and Ellen Roberts (nee roberts) ( born 1820 llanystumdwy). Ellen is living in corn hill in 1864 on her daughter’s ( Laura) birth record.
I don’t think I’m dna linked to the machynlleth branch. So it’s either William Roberts or Ellen Roberts that I need to find their origins.
There are no trees on ancestry that go further than this.
So to summarise: I need to find the parents of Ellen ( eleanor) Roberts born abt 1820 llanystumdwy.
or
William Roberts born about 1821 ynyscynhaiarn
There is no obvious marriage record for these two otherwise my next step was to get a certificate.
Any clues?
Diolch
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FindMyPast baptism
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Eleanor, the daughter of Will'm Roberts by Dorothy his wife, of Cefn y maesydd in the Parish of Ynys cyn haiarn, Farmer, was baptised January 6th 1822
Trancript
Place - Llanystumadwy, Denomination - Independent
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FindMyPast baptism
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Parish Church of Ynys Cynhaiarn
1821, Nov 18th, William, son of Griffith & Margaret Roberts, abode Coldy, occpn. labourer
Note - FindMyPast has transcribed "Marg't" as "Mary" in 2 instances (it has 7 entries!) but it's clearly "Marg't"
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ok, diolch yn fawr, will try these.
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cefn y meysydd is in T Ceiri Griffith. I’ve not seen these two yet. I have found a Dorothy and william roberts in Beaumaris. Dorothy being from tremadog. Could it be these two? William is a slater not a farmer though.
If I am linked to this family it would explain many other dna links. Every dna link search tends to circle around farms around nantcyll/ hendre cennin/llecheiddor/llwyngwnadl.
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ok, diolch yn fawr, will try these.
Pam lai.
You asked for William Roberts, Ynyscynhaiarn, 1821. YoB/age can be somewhat suspect and PoB the same. Casting around for William Roberts I can see -
1. bap 14 Nov 1819, Criccieth
2. bap 18 Apr 1819, Parish Church Llanystumdwy, abode Pencarth?
3. bap 3 Feb 1819, Rhoslan Independent Llanystumdwy, abode Hendre Isaf, Llangybi parish
4 bap 19 Aug 1820, Dolbenmaen
5. bap 11 Apr 1823, Isa Garn Calvinistic Methodist, Dolbenmaen
6. bap 23 Mar 1823, Ynyscynhaiarn
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diolch eto.
Nothing has jumped out from the dorothy and william roberts (born about 1800) suggestion yet. I’ll try your other suggestions.
There’s two cefn y meusydd ( uchaf and isaf), they look like substantial farms. It could be that Dorothy and William were living there as servants.
Their prospective child's wedding record ( william roberts ynyscynhaiarn and eleanor llanystumdwy) is not obvious. Their eldest child was born 1844 so there should be wedding near this date.
Porthmadog is always a problem (same for penrhyndeudraeth!). It should be ynyscynhaiarn but often penmorfa, treflys, tremadoc(g), portmadoc.
The family dna line I’m researching is someone who is llanifihangel y pennant throughout the records, then, in his last census, gives portmadoc as place of birth!
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Porthmadog, Ynyscynhaiarn and Llanfihangel-y-pennant seem to be linked together in census.
Is this a possible
1851 CENSUS YNYSCYNHAIARN, District 5a
Ty Bach, Tremadoc
William Roberts, head, 30
Elinor, Wife, 29
Robert, son, 7
Margaret, daughter, ?
Elinor, 4
Jane, 2
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I have just added Llanfihangel-y-Pennant Chapel/cemetery to 'Find-a-Grave' as it was missing. Don't think its online at present. Website tried to keep sending me to the one near Tywyn
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Yes, thanks, that’s them, they’re in graig tremadog in the next census.
Spelling of ellin’s name is different but the children and ages are consistent.
Ellin’s birthplace is ynyscynhaiarn here but llanystumdwy on the other records.
Llanfihangel y pennant caernarvonshire is not an easy parish to search. Especially the detached parts. The prenteg part records are sometimes with Beddgelert parish.
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I can't find a marriage for William and Elinor unless someone else can.
The youngest child is 7 in 1851 so I assume they got married 12 months or more before his birth. If Elinor got married at the nearest church/chapel to where she lived then a search of the 1841 census in Ynyscynhaiarn or Llanystymwy may bring up one or maybe 10 Elinors of about the right age. Then you have to research each one you find to see if you can make a connection. (Is that you I can hear groaning lol). Look for 'Ty Bach' at the same time may turn up William.
A small point. It is quite possible Elinor has left home and working as a domestic.
Where did the DNA link come from? DNA doesn't lie. Is there a tree connected to that DNA you can research. If it came from Ancestry then you probably have a lot more connections.
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I can't find a marriage for William and Elinor unless someone else can.
The youngest child is 7 in 1851 so I assume they got married 12 months or more before his birth. If Elinor got married at the nearest church/chapel to where she lived then a search of the 1841 census in Ynyscynhaiarn or Llanystymwy may bring up one or maybe 10 Elinors of about the right age. Then you have to research each one you find to see if you can make a connection. (Is that you I can hear groaning lol). Look for 'Ty Bach' at the same time may turn up William.
A small point. It is quite possible Elinor has left home and working as a domestic.
Where did the DNA link come from? DNA doesn't lie. Is there a tree connected to that DNA you can research. If it came from Ancestry then you probably have a lot more connections.
Marriage Registration
Eleanor Williams, Sep Qtr 1843, Reg. Dist. Ffestiniog, 27 213 - on same page is a William Roberts
Ynyscynhaiarn falls within the Ffestiniog Registration District - sub district Tremadoc.
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thanks both. The dna link is a person who is a great great grandson of these two. 33cm match , so something like a shared ancestor at 4th or 5th great grandparents. What’s piqued my interest is that he’s only got 14 shared matches and two of these are known descendants of my dad’s dad’s family. This narrowness of this type of dna match is very useful.
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The 1851 Census has children Robert 7 (1844), Margaret 5 (1846), Elinor 4 (1847), Jane 2 (1849)
The 1861 Census has children Jane 12 (1849), Elizabeth 8 (1853), Catherine 7 (1854), Margaret 4 (1857)
Jumping ahead and assuming Roberts/Williams marriage, 1843, Ffestiniog (Merionethshire) is a possible, possible birth registration with mother's maiden name Williams is Jane Roberts, Sep Qtr 1849, Ffestiniog (Merionethshire).
Finding others Roberts who match ages on '51 and '61 Census, mother's maiden name Williams and Reg district Ffestiniog proving somewhat difficult. There are possibilities but collectively they don't hang together.
PS - I know absolutely nothing about DNA!
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Diolch
Dna is not an exact science!
you have 6000cm ish
You have 3000cm ish from each parent
it halves each generation (ish)
cousins share 800cm ish
second cousins 400cm ish
….and so on!
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O'r diwedd dw i'n deall!!
Roberts a heck of a surname to chase in North Wales.
pob lwc
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It doesn't help that Ancestry still haven't sorted out their links for Capel Curig
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Gadlys llannor may work, not too far from llanystumdwy. I’ll check T ceiri griffith’s book. I’m related to the family on top of that page too😂