RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: ModGipps on Sunday 20 July 25 05:22 BST (UK)
-
Abraham married Thecla / Thekla Hadad who was my wifes great grandmother. Their daughters Lillian (Labeba) May and Ellen Nabeha married into the Chambers and Corbin families and lived in and around Modella / Longwarry / Kooweerup. Corbins eventually became Rogers.
I have a copy of Abrhams naturalisation papers dated 28/10/1901 which states that he arrived from Port Said on the ship Australien on the 6th/11/1891. When I chase up the arrivals documentation for the Australien it doesn't appear to have a record of him being on board and arriving in Melbourne in that month (that I can see).
Does anyone have any thoughts how I canresolve this?
Thanks
-
In NZ there are several families, some well known,eg Corban (Wine). They were Lebanese.
There is a NZ family spelt Chhour (One is an MP at the moment)
-
Thanks shanreagh. Agree that there are many different ways that surname is spelt. Abraham settled in Victoria and didn't travel elsewhere at all - thats not to say there weren't relatives from Syria (as it was at that time) immigrating to NZ.
-
This item about the voyage of the Australien mentions its route, including Port Said, and that it stopped via Melbourne.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/135848999
Will keep looking ...
Modified to add:
Welcome to RootsChat!
-
Thanks for the welcome and info.
The Australien is pretty well documented by painting and photographs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Australien_(1889) ), so that bit is relatively easy to track :)
-
Saloon passengers named here:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/8624149
No CHOURY or similar. Have you seen the passenger list for steerage, or a crew list, maybe he was working?
I note that the Australien arrived Albany on 28 November 1891, so Abraham's dates must be a little out. From what I can see:
3 Nov - Marseilles
9 Nov - Suez
13 Nov - Aden
28 Nov - Albany
Perhaps his recollection of 6 Nov was actually when he boarded the ship, assuming the year was correct.
-
Was his youngest daughter born in Cyprus in 1896?
Debra :)
-
Have found the passenger list now on Ancestry - saloon and steerage, no names like CHOURY. However, I can't see a crew list.
Though looking again at the list of passengers reported in the newspaper, it says 65 passengers in steerage for all ports. There are only 6 on the list of passengers in steerage on the Passenger List. :-\
-
Is this the same list?
Be sure to move through the pages on the scan.
https://marinersandships.com.au/1891/12/081aus.htm
Sue
Edit. I think this above is not the right voyage .??
-
@Dundee - I believe that he was married in Cyprus but dont have that information, also that when he arrived it was with a 2? year old child.
@maddys52 - yes the ship stopped at Melbourne on various dates and as per the attached I believe he was a passenger and not crew. (Cant attached the whole doc as its too big)
@sparret - yes same ship but he landed in Melbourne.
I guess its quite possible that the date on the naturalisation paper is wrong but I cant image that after spending all that time from Port Said that he wouldn't have the ships name forwever in his mind :-)
-
On the crew list which seems to comprise men of French sounding names because it is a Fench ship, I can see this rather unlikely longshot. Wrong given name, wrong age and transcribed as Thorey .
-
Ok
-
On the crew list which seems to comprise men of French sounding names because it is a Fench ship, I can see this rather unlikely longshot. Wrong given name, wrong age and transcribed as Thorey .
I don't think this is a long shot at all.
I do a big Grrrr when I see capital C transcribed as T. My first name starts with C and my mother wrote her Cs like this but with a longer start-up tail.
To me it reads Courey or Corey. Both are reasonable approximations of Choury etc.
-
... and y's become i's or vice versa :-)
-
Well, no doubt ModGipps will soon use the REPLY button at the bottom of the last post on the thread to let us know their thoughts and to respond to questions asked. ;D
Sue
-
Sparrette - waiting on Mods to approve….
-
Sparrette - waiting on Mods to approve….
That happens sometimes.
Good for users' protection but does create a hold up from time to time ;D
Sue
-
Agreed
-
ModGipps what interesting names you are searching, interesting as some are here in NZ.
Corbin/Corban
https://ceac.org.nz/ located in Mt Lebanon Lane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corbans
https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/3c31/corban-assid-abraham
Khouri
The name "Khouri" in Wellington likely refers to Khouri Avenue in Karori, or the Khouri Multi-use Trail on Wrights Hill. Now why would a street be named this name unless the person was relatively well-known
Jagoe is often spelt here as Jago. A family with a long history and large connections in Northern Hawkes Bay NZ, and, now I am searching, all over NZ actually.
-
shanreagh not really surprised that there are Khouri in NZ as the immigration records for Aus show many with that surname coming from Syria and then Labanon from the mid 1800's onwards, so some in NZ are likely related somewhere along the way. Whether or not they realte to Abraham I dont know.
The Jago(e)s are pretty interesting in their own right as they married into the Rogers family via Sinclair James, which is why the interest there. There has been a lot of them in Tasmania but where they fit I dont know at the moment.
Corbins relate to the Rogers and come from Jersey. The Corbins I know of are inVictoria and Western Australia.
-
Was his youngest daughter born in Cyprus in 1896?
Debra :)
@Dundee - I believe that he was married in Cyprus but dont have that information, also that when he arrived it was with a 2? year old child.
The marriage certificate of Ellen Nabeha in 1920 should give the bride's place of birth. Do you have it?
Also Thekla's death certificate will have possibly useful information including when married.
-
The online resource doesn't show the fine detail of this information. If it is available I'll have to dig deeper.
-
The full record is contained on a download of the image from the registry.
"quick search" from here
https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/search-your-family-history#5-download-an-image
Click on the surname (Choury)
Screen opens with "add to cart" options
Be SURE to select $20 option. Credit card payment
Further help is on the link i've given above at point 5.
Sue
-
Thanks - that helps. The certificate states that Ellen was born in Beruit.
-
The online tree says that Thekla was born in Beiruit too.
And married in Cyprus where the other 2 children were born
The source cited for this information is the naturalsation Application of Abraham on a Statutory Declaration attached to the application.
Is that the document you have and have attached above?
Sue
-
The above document is a Memorial for Letters of Naturalization and is a single page. I wasn't aware that there should be a Stat Dec. I'll go back to its source and see what else there is
-
Ha! Only had a boys look at the first page: https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=1934402&isAv=N
Theres LOTS more!
Thanks for your help
-
Oh! Good news.
Also a reminder that Victorian BMD certificates (which, BTW stretch across 2 pages) will be of great assistance in your searching.
They are among the best in the world for information contained and will provide a sound foundation for your family tree.
Well worth $20.
Sue
-
Thanks Sue.
I've just realised that when the ships master enters his passengers names theyre not always first name last name but be could the reverse and then the first name might be entered as an intial anyway. So lots more ferreting around to confirm the arrival date of Abraham and his family.
-
Thanks Sue.
I've just realised that when the ships master enters his passengers names theyre not always first name last name but be could the reverse and then the first name might be entered as an intial anyway. So lots more ferreting around to confirm the arrival date of Abraham and his family.
And as we say.......'hours of fun' with the ferreting, byways, rabbit holes........ :)
-
Thanks Sue.
I've just realised that when the ships master enters his passengers names theyre not always first name last name but be could the reverse and then the first name might be entered as an intial anyway. So lots more ferreting around to confirm the arrival date of Abraham and his family.
Yes!
And the richer you were, the less information there is.
Cabin/Saloon passengers might be Mr and Mrs SMITH. no age, no occ, no origin.
Then down in steerage, they are often all lumped under one heading, Steerage Passengers. Unnamed. Not easy
A point of interest for you. When Abraham gained his Naturalisation at that time, the rights attached were automatically accorded to his wife and family. All became citizens. Thekla was entitled to vote as we see on the 1914 electoral roll when they were shopkeepers in Williamstown.
So you will not find an application from her.
Sue
-
Wasnt aware of the citizenship by relationship - saves me puzzling over why I cant find it!
-
Have you looked at Abraham's probate record and will?
The will was made in 1913 and following his death, probate granted in 1926.
https://prov.vic.gov.au/
Just put Choury in search bar.
Sue
-
Yes I had seen that thanks.
The attached turned up as a bit of a surprise; obviously she was owed money but had to go all the way to the supreme court to get some action via the sheriff.
-
Good for her!
There are a couple of photos purporting to be her online and she does have an expression of fortitude in my opinion. ;D
Sue
-
Ive seen two, one of which is a family photograph (on ancestry, but I dont know whose site) and the one at https://www.beresford.net.au/history/gen/tree/587.htm (attached), which is a similar to one that my wife has, which is a hand coloured photograph in a fancy wooden frame.