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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Lisajj on Thursday 17 July 25 20:48 BST (UK)
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In 1976 my husbands grand father, George F Johnson, married for a third time to
Ellen A Lang, registered in Uttlesford. They lived in Thaxted, however, this marriage was not approved of by the rest of the family. He died in 1985 but neither my husband or his older brother remember meeting her or even hearing about her until we started doing the family tree! My mother in law referred to her as "Penny". I don't know what happened to her, she's not mentioned in his will and we haven't found any documents relating to her at all.
Can anyone find Ellen A "Penny" Johnson, previously Lang? I have found a birth which is possible, and if its correct she had a twin called Marie R Lang.
So where did Ellen A Johnson go?
Thanks in advance
Lisa
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Possible births?
Births Sep 1916
Lang Ellen A White Bethnal G. 1c 281
Lang Marie R White Bethnal G. 1c 281
Since you've seen George's Will and she's not mentioned- could she have died before him? George's death certificate will give his marital status (married, widowed, divorced)
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Hi,
Are you sure about his DOD? When I look at the National Probate Calendar there is a George Frederick JOHNSON of Thaxted Essex who died on 12 Jan 1991. This death matches him,
George Frederick JOHNSON Jan Q 1991 Cambridge 09 667
DOB: 1903
Are you sure that Ellen A LANG was a single when she married George, she could have been married before and then married George using her married name, her maiden name could be something different.
Regards,
Daisy
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You may need to buy a copy of the 1976 marriage cert to establish Ellen's marital status at the time
If George was b 1903 he was 73 in 1976 so it's very likely Ellen was previously married
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I'm not sure that the Ellen born in 1916 is the correct one. Her name is Ellen Alice LANG, in 1921 she is living in Hackney then there is a marriage,
Ellen A LANG Jul 1937 Hackney 1b 1421
Frederick A SEABROOK
I think you can find this couple still in Hackney in 1939.
This Ellen dies in 1963,
Ellen A SEABROOK Jan 1963 Hackney 5c 977
DOD: 45
Probate notice Ellen Alice SEABROOK 1963.
I agree with CaroleW you need George's marriage certificate.
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When was George Frederick Johnson born?
If he died in Thaxted - the RD would be Chelmsford & there is only one death in Chelmsford RD & that was 1974. There is an Administration entry on the Probate site but no names mentioned
If the 1991 death is his - that death was registered in Cambridge but he may have died in a hospital in that area
How have you established that the 1976 marriage to Ellen is the correct one given your mother in law refers to her as Penny?
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Notes.
There is an Ellen Alice Johnson death reg. Chelmsford 1990 --vol 9 page 1818
the date of birth shown is 1 April 1902.
Thaxted is part of the Chelmsford registration district.
If she died the year before him would be the reason she is not mentioned in the will.
To know for sure the marriage certificate is the best way to go.
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Ellen Alice Johnson died 1990 left a will. Her address was 44 Sawkins Ave Great Baddow. Different address to the 1991 entry for George
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If you are a member of Ancestry or Newspapers.com you can see an Obituary about the 1991 death of George. He was of Thaxted and died in hospital in Cambridge, I'm not posting it here as it names people who could still be living.
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/824863851/
Click on "Keep Reading 2" to see the transcription, I can't see the actual article.
Daisy
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Ellen Alice Johnson died 1990 left a will. Her address was 44 Sawkins Ave Great Baddow. Different address to the 1991 entry for George
I think it's only £1.50 for a copy of the will. It's worth taking a chance as there could be relatives of hers named.
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How about
SAVAGE, ELLEN ALICE mmn NEALE
GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 444
Baptism records dob 1st April 1902, parents George Piercy & Rosina Sophia
Marriages Mar 1921
Elliott Walter A(Arthur) Savage St.Clave 1d 297
Savage Ellen A Elliott St Olave 1d 297
1939 dob for Ellen A Elliott 1st April 1902.
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Death
Deaths Mar 1964
ELLIOTT WALTER A 69 MIDDLESEX S. 5F 62 (dob 3.3.1894 per 1939 war register, school admission and royal marines records suggest dob 4.3.1894)
Marriages Mar 1966
ELLIOTT ELLEN A LANG CHELMSFORD 4A 1303
LANG ALFRED C S ELLIOTT CHELMSFORD 4A 1303
Death
Deaths Sep 1974
LANG ALFRED CHARLES -AP1913 CHELMSFORD 9 1502 (1939 dob 16.4.1913)
Marriages Sep 1976
JOHNSON GEORGE F LANG UTTLESFORD 9 3797
LANG ELLEN A JOHNSON UTTLESFORD 9 3797
death
Name Ellen Alice Johnson
Death Age 88
Birth Date 1 Apr 1902
Registration Date May 1990
Registration District Chelmsford
Inferred County Essex
Volume 9
Page 1818
SS
added
George Frederick 1st marriage to Nora B W Hollaway, 1934 Dunmow
Births Jun 1939
Johnson Female mmn Holtaway Dunmow 4a 1476 (married 1962 Dunmow)
Deaths Jun 1939
Johnson Norah B W 38 Dunmow 4a 924 (Possibly died during/post birth of daughter)
Births Jun 1901
HOLTAWAY Nora Bessie W W. Ham 4a 292
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Death of Lilian Johnson nee' Drane George F Johnson's 2nd wife.
Deaths Dec 1975
JOHNSON LILIAN 8MR1898 CAMBRIDGE 9 844