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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: CForlow on Wednesday 16 July 25 15:31 BST (UK)
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Dear Rootschat'ers
I've came to this forum in hope of aid in, perhaps, the largest "brickwall" in the my family tree at the moment - mostly concerning the parents of "Margaret Bruce Campbell", commonly referred to as "Maggie". Maggie's two birthdates are listed at abt 1863 and abt 1865, indicating she was probably born in the early-mid 1860's in Glasgow (Meaning a birth certificate for her should exist). Maggie developed a life-lasting relationship w/ William West Robertson, a Glaswegian Steward, whilst her only registered occupation I've found is a Calender Worker; although, there is nil evidence that William & Maggie ever married. Maggie had her first child, William West Robertson (Named after the credited father) c. 1885. His birth certificate marks him as "Illegitimate", although still lists both the parents and their names in full. Maggie had a second child, Thomas, in 1887 - although, Thomas was illegitimate aswell with the identity of his father unknown. Again, this is as William & Maggie weren't married. Thomas was eventually sent to live with William, and assumed the "Robertson" surnamed.
In the 1891 Census, I have William & Thomas living at No. 20 Gladstone St, adjacent to No. 22 Gladstone St (Where William was born). They are lodging alongside their paternal uncle, Charles Robertson. I can't find accurate census records for William Snr or Maggie in 1891. In the 1901 Census, the most accurate census record is for a household at No. 97 Camden St, where William & Thomas reside alongside William Snr & Maggie; who are listed as a married couple. I am not 100% sure this is the right record, but it's the best I can get. Now, the interesting part - I've found the death record for Margaret Bruce Campbell, on 10 Oct 1910 at 16 Sawmillifield St in Milton; she is aged 46 y/o, listed as the husband as William West Robertson (Widower). Her parents are listed as John Campbell, Newspaper Reporter (Deceased) & Margaret Forbes, formerly Campbell, m.s. Bruce (Deceased). Now, the challenging: looking at basic Marriage Entries on Scotland's People, there is no appropriate entries for a John Campbell & Margaret Bruce with any spelling variations. The same issue occurs after searching a [?] Forbes & Margaret Bruce. The only plausible entry for a [?] Forbes & Margaret Campbell is a 1865 Thurso Marriage, which I have inspected, and is incorrect.
So, Rootschat'ers, hopefully you all may be able to give some suggestions or a "helping hand". I am almost certain that William & Maggie weren't married, due to the lack of a marriage record - although this doesn't totally rule out the possibility. I don't understand why they'd live together and go to such lengths instead of simply marrying. Perhaps there is more to the story? Perhaps finding a suitable 1891 Census for them would help with this, and provide information regarding Maggie's parents? Just ideas, but I hope to hear back from others who can concur solutions to this problem. Most online family trees seem to list Maggie's parents as a John Campbell & Margaret Crea b. 1829 & 1825 in Ireland - but the mother's maiden name doesn't line up, and neither of them seems to have remarried to anyone, let alone a Forbes.
Best Wishes,
CForlow.
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Have you found her on the 1871 or 1881 censuses
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Have you found her on the 1871 or 1881 censuses
Hi CaroleW,
Unfortunately it is difficult to find this particular Maggie, as the forename "Maggie" appears very frequently in numerous household composed of a "John" & "Margaret" as head(s); and of course there is the possibility that John is deceased (Due to Margaret remarrying), which would narrow the search even more. Although, I can try looking through "Forbes" households instead, to see what that'll bring.
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Minor point, Margaret Bruce Roberson died 10.10.1911, have you found her in 1911 census.
SS
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I've run out of credits, but believe you can find William, Margaret and William jnr in 1911 ref
ROBERTSON
WILLIAM
1911
M
17
644/9 47/ 18
Milton
Lanark
ROBERTSON
WILLIAM
1911
M
49
644/9 47/ 18
Milton
Lanark
ROBERTSON
MARGRET
1911
F
50
644/9 47/ 18
Milton
Lanark
Address could be Sawmillfield Street.
SS
Incorrect as per following post
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William jnr was b 1885 according to opening post so would be 26 in 1911
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Minor point, Margaret Bruce Roberson died 10.10.1911, have you found her in 1911 census.
SS
Hi SS,
I've checked the "Milton" district in 1911, unfortunately couldn't find anything. I assume they could've relocated to Sawmillfield St mid year? I'll have another check soon, perhaps also including the "Hutchesontown" district may provide accurate answers (As they residing at Camden St in the 1901 Census). The household in 1911 should include William Snr, Maggie & Thomas - should've mentioned it in original post, but William Jnr married Helen Deacon c. 1906, and Thomas married Mary Norah MacKillop c. 1913.
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I had an appointment at the City Archives in the Mitchell Library today. So I had a look through the poor-relief applications but couldn't see anything that fitted for Maggie. There is a "Margaret Campbell Robertson", wife of William Robertson but, they were married in Crieff (Perthshire) in 1883 so it doesn't match, plus the parents don't match either. (They were a dreadful couple, both in and out of prison, she tried to strangle her son and attacked the policeman with a poker and a brush, when he intervened, while calling on someone to fetch her a hatchet!).
I did find what looks to be William senior.
The Archives reference is D/HEW 16/13/625 - 93774. Parish of Glasgow.
WILLIAM WEST ROBERTSON.
Application made by his brother Charles Robertson, with whom he resides.
Date of claim - 23rd May 1924. From 30 Oran Street, 1 up, right door.
Applicant was born 10th June 1861 at 51 Clyde Place, Tradeston (Glasgow)
Age - 63 years.
Condition - Single.
Parents - Charles Robertson, commercial traveller & Janet West. Both dead.
His brother had concern over his mental health and he was subsequently removed to hospital.
Not much information I'm afraid but it may help.
CForlow, have you checked all the information in your original post? Or have you taken it from someone else's work?
Oran Street would have been quite close to Sawmillfield St.
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I don't want to confuse anyone but this is too interesting not to share, just as an example of what hidden gems there are to be found in the Glasgow parishes poor relief applications.
I must stress that, as far as I know, this is NOT the same Margaret Campbell Robertson as the one mentioned in CForlow's original post.
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Have you looked just for a birth of a Margaret or Maggie Bruce as it could be the same situation that her parents never married or were even together especially if her mother took on the name Forbes. Is the only evidence you have for her being born in Glasgow and the dates from the census records?
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Have you not looked at the original 1891 census? Maggie CARRIGAN, Charles and the children are in their own section of the census record. Maggie is the mother of the two ROBERTSON boys and likely Catherine CARRIGAN as well, but obviously can't be the mother of Charles.
https://postimg.cc/HjdY7Czn
Marriage
CARRIGAN, DANIEL
CAMPBELL, MARGARET
1877
644 / 14 / 180
Kinning Park
Birth
CARRIGAN, CATHERINE
Mother's maiden surname: CAMPBELL
1878
644 / 11 / 1763
Hutchesontown
Debra :)
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Great find Dundee :)
For ref only a possibility on the 1881 Census
Address 5 Towers Street Kinning Park Glasgow
Alexander Henderson age 24 b Ireland
Elizabeth Henderson age 23 b Ireland
Kate Cardigan age 2 b Glasgow adopted
Rosie
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I have 6 floating spare credits, what would you like me to look up as a priority.
SS
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.... her only registered occupation I've found is a Calender Worker....
William's birth shows her occupation as 'Calenderer's folder'. In 1881 she is probably the Margaret CARIGAN, aged 21, born Glasgow, Sewer & Folder Calanderer, also boarding at 5 Towers Street, Kinning Park. This is from a transcription only and doesn't give her marital status. I think you need to be a bit flexible with her year of birth.
Debra :)
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I have 6 floating spare credits, what would you like me to look up as a priority.
SS
The CARRIGAN/CAMPBELL marriage in 1877? I think there is enough circumstantial evidence for it to be the correct person.
Debra :)
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SS
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From the marriage SS has posted looked for the death
28 January 1906 251 Kennedy Street Glasgow
Caroline Pennington age 55 ?
Married first to William Campbell
Married to Thomas Forbes he registered the death
Sorry I don't know how to copy and post C Forlow if you pm your email address I will send you the copy if required
Rosie
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Were they in Durham in 1861?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7XS-TPM
Debra :)
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Were they in Durham in 1861?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7XS-TPM
Debra :)
Would say that's them his occupation matches the death record for Caroline and she was born in England obviously made herself younger
Rosie
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According to the 1881 st Rollox census, son William is aged 17, born in Wales, and Alfred is aged 10, born in England, but he was actually 14.
CAMPBELL, ALFRED JOHN
Mother's maiden surname: PENNINGTON
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 515
I can't see a birth reg. for William.
It is all a bit complicated ;D
Debra :)
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According to the 1881 st Rollox census, son William is aged 17, born in Wales, and Alfred is aged 10, born in England, but he was actually 14.
CAMPBELL, ALFRED JOHN
Mother's maiden surname: PENNINGTON
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 515
I can't see a birth reg. for William.
It is all a bit complicated ;D
Debra :)
It certainly is and no further forward with birth for Margaret :)
Rosie
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1901 census address 251 Kennedy Street St Rollex
Thomas Forbes age 45 house painter
Carolina Forbes age 50 b England
Carolina Forbes age 20 born Glasgow
Eva Forbes age 20 b Glasgow
William Campbell age 32 born England
Rosie
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1871 census 43,St James Road Glasgow transcribed as Christiner on Ancestry
Christiner Campbell age 27 born England ( dressmaker )
William Campbell age 8 b England
Alfrid Campbell age 4 b England
Rosie
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I had an appointment at the City Archives in the Mitchell Library today. So I had a look through the poor-relief applications but couldn't see anything that fitted for Maggie. There is a "Margaret Campbell Robertson", wife of William Robertson but, they were married in Crieff (Perthshire) in 1883 so it doesn't match, plus the parents don't match either. (They were a dreadful couple, both in and out of prison, she tried to strangle her son and attacked the policeman with a poker and a brush, when he intervened, while calling on someone to fetch her a hatchet!).
I did find what looks to be William senior.
The Archives reference is D/HEW 16/13/625 - 93774. Parish of Glasgow.
WILLIAM WEST ROBERTSON.
Application made by his brother Charles Robertson, with whom he resides.
Date of claim - 23rd May 1924. From 30 Oran Street, 1 up, right door.
Applicant was born 10th June 1861 at 51 Clyde Place, Tradeston (Glasgow)
Age - 63 years.
Condition - Single.
Parents - Charles Robertson, commercial traveller & Janet West. Both dead.
His brother had concern over his mental health and he was subsequently removed to hospital.
Not much information I'm afraid but it may help.
CForlow, have you checked all the information in your original post? Or have you taken it from someone else's work?
Oran Street would have been quite close to Sawmillfield St.
Hi Lodger,
Thank you for the small insight concerning William Snr's admission to Hospital - I was aware that, at the time of his death, he was in the "Old" Stobhill Hospital on Balornock Rd. To clarify - the majority of the work on the original post have been either found or backtracked by myself; some elements coming from coming from my Uncle as-well. I have the digital records of all mentioned events on the post, and I am certain they are for the described people. Although, through my research, I've found lots of supposed parent's for Maggie (Again, listed on Online Trees and my Uncle's research) to be incorrect of incoherent. I will be making a trip to the Record's House in Edinburgh in due course, and will thoroughly investigate as much 1860's entries for a "Margaret Campbell" as I can. Although, looking back I wonder is William Snr, whilst registering her death, gave incorrect information regarding her parents? Perhaps her mother's maiden name isn't "Bruce", and the middle name comes somewhere else in the family?
P.S. Just got back from a short Holiday break, trying to respond to all replies one-by-one! Whilst writing this reply, I hadn't seen pages 2 or 3 w/ Dundee, Rosie & SS's wonderful work.
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From the marriage SS has posted looked for the death
28 January 1906 251 Kennedy Street Glasgow
Caroline Pennington age 55 ?
Married first to William Campbell
Married to Thomas Forbes he registered the death
Sorry I don't know how to copy and post C Forlow if you pm your email address I will send you the copy if required
Rosie
Hi Rosie,
You can email me at [blank] - I'll be glad to see this record! I think this may be the mystery finally being "put to bed"!
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From the marriage SS has posted looked for the death
28 January 1906 251 Kennedy Street Glasgow
Caroline Pennington age 55 ?
Married first to William Campbell
Married to Thomas Forbes he registered the death
Sorry I don't know how to copy and post C Forlow if you pm your email address I will send you the copy if required
Rosie
Hi Rosie,
You can email me at - I'll be glad to see this record! I think this may be the mystery finally being "put to bed"!
Have noted your email you would be better to delete it now
Rosie