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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: lydiaann on Monday 14 July 25 16:39 BST (UK)
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James MacDonald (could be McDonald). Ropemaker.
Born about 1816, Dundee.
Married. Ann Lawson, 7 Sep, 1835, Dundee. (Have all the issue listed, etc. - don't want people wasting their valuable time on that!)
Shown as alive on the 1871 census (although they have his age, dob, wrong) BUT Ann died in 1876 and her death reg'n shows she is a widow. So, he died between 1871 and 1876.
Scotland had mandatory death registration after 1855...so why cannot I find a trace of his death anywhere? Trouble is, such a common name.
I started on this frustrating journey because I need to confirm his parents' details and I wanted to make sure I had the right person. (They, too, were still alive on the 1871 census :John MacDonald and Flora Kennedy. And, no, I cannot find their death details either!). Oh, and I've tried every which way on LDS too.
Is there anybody out there who might be able to trace 'my' James, pretty please?
As always, grateful for any glimmer of hope you can give me.
lydiaann
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Hi
Don’t know if you have looked at Ancestry!
A fair few have his death as 26 Mar 1872 • Dundee. That doesn’t make it a fact!!
Good luck
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Hi
Scotland People have a death for James McDonald, 53. Mothers maiden name Kennedy.
Died in 1872
Reference 282 / 2 / 220 St Mary
Good luck
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(They, too, were still alive on the 1871 census :John MacDonald and Flora Kennedy. And, no, I cannot find their death details either!).
Please tell us what the 1871 census says about them: where were thy, how old were they, what was his occupation, where were they born, and who else was in the household with them?
I've tried every which way on LDS too.
If they're not on SP they're not likely to be on the LDS web site because the LDS is mostly an index to what is on SP. Unless there's a gravestone on FindaGrave or BillionGraves which has been indexed or transcribed by the LDS.
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Here is a transcription of the death found by Blairvadich. This is from LDS . These transcriptions of Scottish Civil Registration records are very useful finding aids before spending money on Scotland's People! ( Only 1855 - 1875, 1881 and 1891 have been transcribed).
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X955-NGM7?lang=en
Of course the original on SP will give you other detail such as cause of death and the name of the informant.
And of course to amplify the joy of transcriptions I do love that his occupation has been transcribed as Hopespinner!
William
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Millmoor & Blairvadich: I don't know how you did that, I STILL can't find it (I must be getting old...my brain has gone to mush I think) but thank you a thousand times. I had cottoned on to the fact that 2 or 3 other people had this date, but there was nothing in their trees to back it up. Scotland Select Deaths & Burials just had the name and the date - although there is also a date in April for a James Y. MacDonald, which threw me somewhat. The important thing was the parents, I needed to confirm that this was indeed the right James. (One person has his parents as a landed "General Sir..." and his Lady!)
I had 2 or 3 different entries in my 'Shoebox' (I've been clearing it out a little which is why I started nit-picking at this bit of Himself's tree) so now I can get rid of them- another thanks for that, it's getting rather full once again.
Forfarian: John and Flora were on S. Uist and the 1841-71 censuses show him alternately as a Joiner or a Crofter (the latter in 1871) and they were 83 and 84. That is the last of them so far. I'm not too worried about them at the moment, I'll probably get back to them when I've tidied up a bit.
Thank you so much everyone for sorting out my dilemma - I'd be lost without you!!
lydiaann
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Hi
See if this link works
God luck
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/record-results/125353140468762a0183753
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Sorry, no "...has expired or does not exist". And this despite you wishing me the 'luck of God'!!
Thanks for trying, anyway. Don't fret too much about it, I've copied the LDS entry so I can get that into James's Profile/Facts.
lydiaann :-*
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Hi
This is the details.
Cheers
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Wow, thank you so much. From no confirmatory details, suddenly I have them all! That's brilliant.
lydiaann
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Scotland Select Deaths & Burials just had the name and the date.
That's because the LDS etc mostly have only indexes or transcriptions. The clue is in the word 'select', i.e. not comprehensive. Do not rely on the LDS indexing. Make sure to view the original document,
The important thing was the parents, I needed to confirm that this was indeed the right James. (One person has his parents as a landed "General Sir..." and his Lady!)
Very wise. Never trust anything you find in an online tree!
John and Flora were on S. Uist and the 1841-71 censuses show him alternately as a Joiner or a Crofter (the latter in 1871) and they were 83 and 84.
I see that in 1871 (according to one transcription) they are at Ruaghchruach, Benbecula. Benbecula is a separate island between South Uist and North Uist, and it is part of the parish of South Uist. In 1861 the place name is written as Rhuavrach.
The 1851 census (transcription) says that James M*cdonald was born in Dundee but the 1861 and 1871 say he was born in Glasgow. How can you be sure that the John and Flora M*cD in Benbecula are his parents?
You absolutely need to view the original death certificate to confirm that the James McD who died in 1872 is the husband of Ann Lawson and to see what it says his father John's occupation was.
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FINALLY!! But...oh dear, oh dear. :'(
I have found the actual death registration of James on SP (D1872_282_02_0074Z) and it has changed a lot of stuff about his parents. They ARE John and Flora (Kennedy) McDonald but (a) they are both deceased at the time of James' death, and (b) John was a Grocer! So, the S. Uist stuff has all had to be removed - and it looks as though I may have to warn a couple of people that they have the wrong info too! - and a rethink is necessary on John and Flora. Naming patterns don't even help in this case as they simply use family names in any random order. So, once I get myself organised (we are currently in the midst of bathroom renos and I am not - shall we say - quite myself because of a non-life threatening, but extremely tedious medical condition! DON'T GET OLD!!), I should be able to update you on this saga over the next couple of days (I'm in hiding from the workmen and the noise and dust!!).
I would like to say that I am so grateful for everyone's efforts. In the meantime, thank you again.
lydiaann
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Well, that's a step in the right direction.
You may need to consult the burial records of Dundee Howff http://www.fdca.org.uk/Howff_Burial_Records.html
I see that one Flora McDonald or Kennedy, aged 81, was buried there on 15 December 1857. Her death is indexed as Donald or Kennedy, ref 282 / 2 / 998.
There is another Flora McDonald, 84, who died in Dundee on 1 December 1857 and was buried on the 2nd. She was single, parents unknown.
There are two Flora McDonalds in the 1841 and 1851 censuses in Dundee.
One is in Wellington Street, Dundee, age recorded as 60, in 1841, with another Flora McDonald, aged 20. Both born Scotland but not Angus. She may be the one lodging in 1851 with a Catherine Hay, age said to be 72 and born in Ross and Cromarty.
The other is alone in Hawkhill in 1841, aged recorded as 57, born Angus. She may be the one alone in Nethergate in 1851, aged 71, born Fort William.
Or the 1851 ones may be the other way round.