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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Norfolk Nan on Thursday 10 July 25 15:18 BST (UK)

Title: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Norfolk Nan on Thursday 10 July 25 15:18 BST (UK)

On 6th Aug 1905 James Joseph Murphy, 30, bachelor, labourer, son of Thomas Murphy, station master married Edith Jane Davison at St Lukes Church, Chelsea.  The couple used the bride's home address and the witnesses were her family. 

By 1911 the bride was back with her mother, using her maiden name and saying single, all later census entries she's still using her maiden name but describes herself as widowed. I haven't been able to trace James Joseph Murphy at all.  Any help would be appreciated.   
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: LizzieW on Thursday 10 July 25 15:26 BST (UK)
Have you tried searching without his surname but with year of birth.  That's how I found a couple of missing ancestors - then again it didn't work for some Irish ones that I assume went back to Ireland.
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 10 July 25 15:27 BST (UK)
What about the previous census.?

LM
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Milliepede on Thursday 10 July 25 15:29 BST (UK)
Did they have any children by 1911?

Doesn't sound like it worked out at all does it.  If he was Irish he could have gone back home or travelled abroad.

Any sign of his father Thomas station master on 1911 census?
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Norfolk Nan on Thursday 10 July 25 15:41 BST (UK)

No children that survived - I'll check the GRO for births that didn't survive to 1911. 

I haven't found JJM anywhere for certain, I've got nothing to go on really but will focus on his reputed father.  There are plenty of J J Murphys! Let's see if having a station master as a dad helps ...

Thanks chaps!
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: heywood on Thursday 10 July 25 17:41 BST (UK)
There is this James Murphy b 1875 ( no Joseph though) with father Thomas, a Railway Porter

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1875/03099/2136280.pdf

In 1901, that Thomas Murphy is a Station Master
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Ferns/Ferns_Lower/1789002/

Thomas dies before 1911 - son Frank is the informant.
You can find the record on Irish genealogy.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/

There is nothing yet though to indicate it is your man.
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Norfolk Nan on Thursday 10 July 25 17:58 BST (UK)
Thank you.  As you say, nothing to confirm this is the right family but it's certainly close. 
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 10 July 25 18:14 BST (UK)
If the Thomas Murphy in Ferns is correct then age/birthdate and date of death don't match up-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05426/4516646.pdf
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 10 July 25 18:22 BST (UK)
There are these transcript on Anc*y

Elizabeth Murphy
Birth Date   4 Aug 1880
Birth Place   Stationhouse, Wexford, Ireland
Father    Thomas Murphy
Mother   Mary Cosgrave Murphy

James Murphy
Birth Date   9 May 1875
Birth Place   Wexford, Ireland
Father   Thomas Murphy
Mother   Mary Cosgrave
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: LizzieW on Thursday 10 July 25 18:28 BST (UK)
Happy to learn of the Irish website, I might be able to find one of my husband's ancestors who just disappeared from his family in Manchester.  His brother also disappeared from Liverpool, although their father stayed there until his death.
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Norfolk Nan on Thursday 10 July 25 18:34 BST (UK)
Thanks, Ladyhawk. 1875 would match age 30 in 1905 (marriage cert) and father: Thomas. 

Place of birth might help me pin James down in London?  Every bit helps, thanks again.
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 10 July 25 18:39 BST (UK)
There are these transcript on Anc*y

Elizabeth Murphy
Birth Date   4 Aug 1880
Birth Place   Stationhouse, Wexford, Ireland
Father    Thomas Murphy
Mother   Mary Cosgrave Murphy

James Murphy
Birth Date   9 May 1875
Birth Place   Wexford, Ireland
Father   Thomas Murphy
Mother   Mary Cosgrave

Always best to look at the original-
Elizabeth Murphy born 1880-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1880/02859/2047623.pdf
James Murphy born 1875-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1875/03099/2136280.pdf
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 10 July 25 18:40 BST (UK)
1870 marriage Thomas Murphy to Mary Cosgrave his occ railway porter

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1870/11402/8186848.pdf

Added - you found the births quicker than me aghadowey  :)

EDIT
I didn’t notice that Heywood had already posted (#5) the possible 1875 birth for James with mother Mary Cosgrave  ::) - apologies Heywood  :)
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 10 July 25 18:45 BST (UK)
Baptism of James in 1875 (right hand page)- still no middle name-
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634063?locale=en#page/96/mode/1up
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 10 July 25 18:46 BST (UK)
1886
Francis Murphy father Thomas, station master mother Mary Cosgrave
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1886/02589/1956874.pdf
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Norfolk Nan on Thursday 10 July 25 18:51 BST (UK)
Thank you both! It's looking good for James' origins but where was he after his 1905 London marriage? And why did they break up - that's me wondering out loud, not a serious question, btw.
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 10 July 25 18:57 BST (UK)
This James Joseph Murphy died 1916- possibly worth following?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:CFR8-H32M?lang=en

Worth searching for him in 1939 Register in case he was living in England then now that there;s a possible date of birth (year could be out but date and month might match).
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 10 July 25 19:10 BST (UK)

This James Joseph Murphy died 1916- possibly worth following?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:CFR8-H32M?lang=en


This looks like the death entry on GRO indexes an instant digital image is available for £3 

MURPHY, JAMES  JOSEPH     38 
GRO Reference: 1916  S Quarter in ST. OLAVE (BERMONDSEY)  Volume 01D  Page 172
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Norfolk Nan on Thursday 10 July 25 19:12 BST (UK)
Now, I have found a James Murphy, right dob, in Huddersfield, with a wife Annie, no children, in the 1939 census so that was a good idea.  I need to prove this is the same man and work out what happened after he and Edith separated. 

I'll take a look at the death too ...

Thank you, such a helpful lot.  Much appreciated  ;D ;D
Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 10 July 25 19:30 BST (UK)
Now, I have found a James Murphy, right dob, in Huddersfield, with a wife Annie, no children, in the 1939 census so that was a good idea.  I need to prove this is the same man and work out what happened after he and Edith separated. 


Could this be the same couple from 1939 register living in Yorkshire 1921?

James Murphy 1875 Huddersfield, Yorkshire
Annie Murphy 1878 Huddersfield
Lilian Murphy 1904 Huddersfield, Yorkshire

Edit to add

1911 the above are living in 6 Forest Terrace Almondbury Bk Road Huddersfield
James occ Cotton Twiner

Title: Re: James Joseph Murphy - help!
Post by: Norfolk Nan on Thursday 10 July 25 19:37 BST (UK)
It could be, but the child's dob is awkward - 'my' James was in London in 1905 getting married to someone else. Of course, this is 1911 and details can be changed to make a better picture so another record to check out!  Thank you... ;D

Update -  I've seen the 1911 census and the couple's marriage cert and this isn't my James - different father, born in Yorkshire.  One to cross off the list...