RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: pastrelatives on Saturday 28 June 25 17:35 BST (UK)
-
Hello
I would like help from a local family history/genealogy group please.
Caroline Elizabeth BRYANT married Charles Edward SIMPSON in Bathurst NSW in 1879
The NSW marriage certificate reference is 2497
I have tried to order a certificate but it isn't available, so I assume it is one of those that has never been uploaded.
Caroline's father was Thomas BRYANT
Her mother was Kate or Catherine - I am trying to confirm her mother's surname as, when Caroline married for a 2nd time (to F M YATES 1889) her mother is down as Kate QUINN or MCQUIRE (other trees show her name as Catherine KINNA).
Extra information that may help:
Caroline had at least two sisters named Sarah Ann BRYANT and Rachel BRYANT
Caroline's father Thomas BRYANT married a 2nd time to someone named Celia or Cecelia (surname not known).
Any information at all would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
Frances
-
Birth
BRYANT CAROLINE E 4723/1859 THOMAS & CATHERINE BATHURST
Father's 2nd marriage
1272/1860 BRYANT THOMAS & MAGUIRE CELIA BATHURST
Cannot see a death for Catherine 1859/60.
SS
-
NSW BMD says the marriage certificate is "readily available". Cheaper and quicker to use an approved transcription agent as shown on the website - three shown, all good; transcription is emailed to you.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/family-and-relationships/family-history-search/search-guide
-
The original marriage certificate between Caroline and Francesco Yates in Fitzroy clearly shows the mother as Kate McQuinn. It is posted on Ancestry.com.au
Also in this gallery of certificates are Caroline and Francesco"s death certs in England.
-
Just a snippet which may be of interest - or not! And no help with Caroline
This birth (from Thomas' second marriage) in 1864 (#A5508), registered Bathurst, for
Sarah A BRYANT, parents Thomas, Celia
This marriage would seem to be the same female: at Waterloo (Sydney), reg 3428/1885
John MULEEN, Sarah Ann BRYANT
The image for this marriage shows Sarah, aged 21, born Bathurst, with parents Thomas Bryant and Kate Maguire, Thomas' occupation is given as 'butcher'. So it's possible that 'Celia" may have been known as Kate - or possibly, incorrect information given by the bride.
-
aahume - what is the access for these certificates, please
-
Family tree on Ancestry -
https://www.ancestry.com.au/family-tree/person/tree/1026975/person/-2012411310/facts
...see gallery for images.
marriage in Victoria, YATES -SIMPSON has witness is Sarah MULEEN and Wm G.....Y all parties sign
-
As a child, Sarah Ann BRYANT (later MULEEN) made serious allegations about her father Thomas. 1876
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/252088740?searchTerm=%22sarah%20ann%20bryant%22
More detail. Mentions a stepdaughter Caroline and Ann Chilvers. March 1876
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18804165?searchTerm=%22sarah%20ann%20bryant%22
He was acquitted.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18806271?searchTerm=%22sarah%20ann%20bryant%22
Sue
-
Thanks wivenhoe.
Very annoying that death registration in England doesn't ask for parent names!
Trying to put a few snippets together.
So Sarah MULEEN, who is a witness at the Caroline/Francesco marriage is Caroline's stepsister, previously Sarah Jane BRYANT.
At her marriage to Francesco Yates, Caroline gives her mother's name as Kate McQuinn.
Sarah Jane Bryant, on her own marriage certificate, gives her mother as Kate Maguire.
The marriage of Thomas BRYANT in 1860 is to Celia MAGUIRE and later children to Thomas give the mother's name as Celia.
Just a thought - is it possible that Caroline's mother, shown on the index for Caroline's birth as "Catherine" is the same person as the Celia Maguire that Thomas marries in 1860. There is no evidence for a marriage between Thomas and Catherine, nor a death for Catherine, Caroline's mother.
However, the newspaper reports found by Sue clearly state that Sarah has a stepsister.
-
The news items 1876 pertaining to the case against Thomas BRYANT state "his wife is dead"
BRYANT Catherine 4988/1875 AGE 43 YEARS. Died Bathurst Reg Bathurst.
Confusing ::)
Sue
-
To avoid duplication of research - previous thread:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=887889
-
Hi Maaddy,
Oh, yes, I was thinking some names I was looking at were a bit familiar. ::)
Anyhow, interesting to work on a different aspect of the story I guess.
Sue
-
Hello
A big thank you to everyone who has submitted information for me. It's all very helpful.
I now know for sure that Caroline E BRYANT'S (SIMPSON/YATES) mother is Catherine (as well as Kate) McQUINN. Thank you for reading the Simpson/Yates marriage certificate and confirming what I thought the mother's surname is. It was difficult to read.
I now know that Thomas BRYANT's (Caroline's father) 2nd wife (if he did actually marry previously) is named Celia (also possibly known as Kate) MAGUIRE. 1272/1860.
I shall try once again to order the marriage certificate for Caroline E BRYANT and Charles Edward SIMPSON 2497/1879 - I have previously attempted this on the nsw.gov.au site which failed on serveral occasions.
aahume: the certificates are available on my Ancestry.co.uk site mitchell family tree - you will find them in the memories gallery.
I will assume for the time being that there were two different mothers which would mean that Rachel and Caroline BRYANT would be half sisters to Sarah Ann BRYANT.
Thanking you all once again
Frances
-
Hello maddys52 and sparrett
Thankyou once again for your help, especially for the death certificate details for Catherine BRYANT.
My apologies if I should have continued with my original 'new topic'. I thought it would be easier for researchers if I created a new topic to save them reading through previous info, if this was incorrect then please let me know.
You are all very helpful which I do appreciate.
Many thanks
Frances
-
No problem, it was fine to start a new topic. However it is helpful to researchers if you put a link to previous threads so that research around the family is not duplicated. :D
-
just to support what Maddy has said.
The link to the previous is a helpful thing, but not forgetting that any member can check for themselves the previous queries and mentions and content of the topics posted by others by using the Rootschat search option.
It's up to them to remember to do so before embarking on research. ::) :P
;D ;D
Sue
-
I think this would be a useful record for you -
1272/1860 BRYANT Thomas marr. MAGUIRE Celia @ Bathurst
Now that you have more information about her, this 1860 marriage record would be better than the marriage records for Caroline Elizabeth.
-
Hello all
I really do appreciate all of the advice and help you have all given me.
A big thank you. :) :)
ps - Wivenhoe - yes, I shall be ordering a copy of BRYANT and MAQUIRE'S marriage
Frances
-
Just repeating my advice re ordering certificates from NSW BMD. The disadvantage, obviously, is that a transcription does not show the actual signatures which can be useful if comparisons are needed.
Cheaper and quicker to use a Government-approved transcription agent as shown on the website - three shown, all good; transcription is emailed to you.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/family-and-relationships/family-history-search/search-guide
Judith
-
Thank you Judith :)