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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: jille68 on Saturday 28 June 25 15:07 BST (UK)

Title: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: jille68 on Saturday 28 June 25 15:07 BST (UK)
I have found the banns for a Margaret Rimmer and Thomas McGrath.  The church is down as St Johns Liverpool  on Ancestry.com and were read on 19th June, 26 June and 3 July 1864.  However, I can't find any record of the marriage.  There is no other notations on the banns, is this very common?
Thanks
Jill
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 28 June 25 15:14 BST (UK)
Hmmm?

Marriages June qtr 1865
West Derby Registration District     vol 86, page 630

McGrath, Margaret
+ And, on the same page +
Rimmer, Thomas


Could the wrong surnames have been applied?
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: heywood on Saturday 28 June 25 15:22 BST (UK)
That marriage is on Anc.
Sephton Parish church
April 27th 1865
Thomas Rimmer bachelor Great Crosby - father William Rimmer, Publican
Margaret MCGrath, minor, Liverpool - father Thomas McGrath (deceased) Bootmaker

**added
This Thomas was a Pawnbroket
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: heywood on Saturday 28 June 25 15:33 BST (UK)
That marriage seems unlikely.

There is a birth (August) and baptism for:
Mary Jane McGrath, 19th September 1864 with parents Thomas, a Coach spring maker and Margaret.

Does that fit with your family?
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 28 June 25 15:33 BST (UK)
Perhaps they never went through with the marriage.
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: jille68 on Saturday 28 June 25 15:49 BST (UK)
I suppose it could be the surnames were transposed, I'm trying to find the actual marriage register for the church, not just the banns to see if I can find anything more. 
Or perhaps the wedding never took place. 
Could it be that they were read in another church too in a different parish (or faith?)
Thanks to all who have replied
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: heywood on Saturday 28 June 25 15:50 BST (UK)
Do you have them in 1871 census?
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: jille68 on Saturday 28 June 25 16:01 BST (UK)
Do you have them in 1871 census?

No, I have her married to someone else (I know she was a widow when she married, or at least down as a widow)
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 28 June 25 16:03 BST (UK)
I was looking in 1871 too for the little girl to see who she was with but no luck.  Bit of an odd one isn't it.

When did she marry someone else? 
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: heywood on Saturday 28 June 25 16:04 BST (UK)
Woukd you give details of her remarriage please?

Transcriptions of St John’s are at https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ but I can’t see a marriage.
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: jille68 on Saturday 28 June 25 16:13 BST (UK)
I was looking in 1871 too for the little girl to see who she was with but no luck.  Bit of an odd one isn't it.

When did she marry someone else?

I have her in 1871, married with children, think she married in 1868 to a Barrett. 
I'm starting to think the marriage just didn't happen for whatever reason.  The banns are in a Church of England church and I know they were roman catholic.  Mixed faith marriages did happen obviously, but it was rare (from my experience in family history) for the catholic to go to CofE, especially when it was a female. 
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 28 June 25 16:19 BST (UK)
Does she have Mary Jane with her or just younger children?

If you have the certificate showing her as a widow can you confirm her fathers name?
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: heywood on Saturday 28 June 25 16:21 BST (UK)
Mary Jane was baptised C o E - not Catholic - doesn’t seem to fit.
I can’t see a McGrath/Barrett marriage.
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: heywood on Saturday 28 June 25 16:32 BST (UK)
Did she marry as Margaret Thomas?
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: heywood on Saturday 28 June 25 16:36 BST (UK)
There is a Catholic marriage in 1866
Margaret Rimmer - father James to Edward Thomas
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: lancsann on Saturday 19 July 25 17:13 BST (UK)
Name   Margaret Rimmer
Gender   Female
Marriage Date   3 Jul 1864
Marriage Place   St. John'S, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Spouse   
Thomas Mcgrath
FHL Film Number   1656204

same date as the last reading of the banns which state 'marriage banns'
Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 19 July 25 18:25 BST (UK)
I was looking in 1871 too for the little girl to see who she was with but no luck.  Bit of an odd one isn't it.

When did she marry someone else?

I have her in 1871, married with children, think she married in 1868 to a Barrett. 

I'm starting to think the marriage just didn't happen for whatever reason.  The banns are in a Church of England church and I know they were roman catholic. 

Mixed faith marriages did happen obviously, but it was rare (from my experience in family history) for the catholic to go to CofE, especially when it was a female.

Is this the 1871 census you refer too

Piece   3826
Folio   21
Page number   35
Thomas Barrett 27 Head
Magaret Barrett   28   Wife Liverpool, Lancashire
Christopher Barrett 2 Son
Thomas Barrett 1 mth so

BARRETT, CHRISTOPHER   mn    RIMMER 
GRO Reference: 1869  J Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 348

BARRETT, THOMAS       mn RIMMER 
GRO Reference: 1873  S Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 350

and is this her 1881

Margaret Barrett Age   35
Where born   Liverpool
Street Address   "Birkenhead Union Workhouse"
Marital Status   Married
Piece   3588
Folio   147
Page number   2
Also
Mary Barrett age 6 mths Tranmere
Ada Barrett age 4 pob dittoed Tranmere

Possible birth entries

BARRETT, ADA  ANN  mn    RIMMER 
GRO Reference: 1875  D Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 398

BARRETT, MARY    mn RIMMER 
GRO Reference: 1880  D Quarter in BIRKENHEAD  Volume 08A  Page 469

Ada Anna Barrett
Birth Date   14 Nov 1875
Baptism Date   28 Nov 1875 St John's, Liverpool, Lancashire
Father   Thomae Barrett Mother   Margaritae Rimmer




Title: Re: Can't find marriage after banns
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 19 July 25 19:07 BST (UK)
Did she marry as Margaret Thomas?
There is a Catholic marriage in 1866
Margaret Rimmer - father James to Edward Thomas

Edwardus Charles Rimmer Thomas Birth 24 Oct 1866
Baptism 4 Nov 1866 St Anthony's, Liverpool, Lancashire
Father   Edwardi Rimmer Thomas Mother   Marguerita Rimmer

THOMAS, EDWARD  CHARLES RIMMER mn RIMMER 
GRO Reference: 1866  D Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 413

Edward Thomas age 4 is with his Rimmer grandparents James & Roseanna in 1871 Piece 3812 Folio   130 Page number   31

Marriage 10 Oct 1844 St Mary Highfield Street, Liverpool, Lancashire
James Rimmer Father   Henry Rimmer
Spouse   Rosanna Crosbie father John

RIMMER, MARGARET    mn CROSBY 
GRO Reference: 1845  D Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 20  Page 407

Added

Margarita Remmer Age 13, Jacobi & Rosanna
Confirmation 24 Oct 1858 St Oswald, Liverpool, Lancashire
Liverpool, England, Catholic Confirmations, 1813-1926