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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: NorthernGeezer on Thursday 26 June 25 14:50 BST (UK)
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The brick wall strikes again ::) ::)
Elizabeth Bowler is not a blood relative but the 2nd wife of my great grandfather Joseph Bell (1883-1950) and the only grandmother my dad knew, his maternal grandmother dying in 1909.
Elizabeth first appears on my radar when she married Joseph in 1918 in Congleton although the family actually lived in Salford.
Further investigation has found that Elizabeth also appears on Josephs army form, Descriptive Form of Enlistment, this form is not dated but contains a statement 'home 5/1/1917'
Elizabeth is listed on the 1921 census living with Joseph in Salford and again on the 1939 register living in Oldham.
Joseph appears on the 1911 working on a canal boat in Cheshire so it appears he met Elizabeth sometime between 1911 and 1917.
I also have Elizabeth listed in the 1911 census as married and living in Fleetwood, her married name being Bowler, the big issue here is I have no idea what her birth surname is but census records list her place of birth as Ambleside, Westmorland.
Joseph Died in 1950 in Hulme Manchester but the GRO record is detailed as Salford, a newspaper obituary infers that Elizabeth is still alive
Any help pushing this forward would be gratefully appreciated.
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What information does the 1918 marriage give for her - does it name her father
BELL Joseph
BOWLER Elizabeth Ann
1918 Congleton, Civil Marriage or Registrar Attended
Cheshire East C/20/158
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That's the one Rosie, I've only got the GRO record, I'll have to get the official certificate to take it further I think.
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Elizabeth Bowler, 20, in Fleetwood (Fylde RD) in 1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9KW-HJP
Possible marriage?
Sep 1899 Fylde 8e 1446
Bowler, Charles
Staveley, Elizabeth
Lancs BMD says Old Fylde Register Office or Registrar Attended.
Ambleside was in Kendal RD.
Birth reg possible :-\
Dec 1879 Kendal 10b 643
Staveley, Elizabeth Ann
Mother's Maiden Surname: —
Is she living with Staveley grandparents in Ambleside in the 1881 census? Enumerated as daughter, according to the free index
Elizabeth Staveley, 1, born Westmorland Ambleside
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/7572/records/22988975
or here
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBC%2F1881%2F0024342140
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Well done Jonwarn, I've been going round in circles looking for Elizabeth :)
Daisy
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Thanks, Daisy. Fingers crossed, hope it's the right Elizabeth!
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WOW!!!!!...... You've come up trumps there Jon, it never ceases to amaze me how the folks on here can find the information us mere mortals struggle with :D :D
I think its the right Elizabeth, everything you've found kind of makes sense, she seems to have travelled a lot though, born in Ambleside, which by any standard is STILL a small town in the lake district, and 20 years later ends up in Fleetwood.
Fast forward to the 1921 census and she's in Salford, married to my great grandfather in 1918 and helping him raise his 2 young daughters from his first marriage.
Unfortunately, I cant find Elizabeth, George, or Barbara Staveley in the 1891 census in Westmorland or Lancashire, or Elizabeth or Charles Bowler in the 1911 one either.
Her death will cause me problems too, Joseph died in 1950 in Salford and one would have thought she wouldn't have strayed far from there.
My dad was born in 1933 and remembers Elizabeth very well, unfortunately he's no longer around to ask about her death, although I've got a pretty good hint off FindMyPast of 1952 GRO 10e/40.
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Hi,
If this is the family in Ambleside in 1871,
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01ttz/
then I think Barbara is living with her now married daughter Ellen in 1891,
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tty/
she is a widow. This could be George's death
George STAVELEY Sep Q 1884 Kendal 10b 415
Age: 54
If Elizabeth is the daughter of one of George and Barbara's daughters I wonder if the daughter could have married and Elizabeth could be living with them in 1891 under the new married name?
Daisy
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I keep coming back to this 1891 census looking at Lizzie's age age and where they are living
Millom, Cumberland, England, United Kingdom
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tu0/
Lizzie (?S) Richards age 11
Birth 1880
Westmorland
Parents
Henry Richards age 27
Mary Richards age 29
Siblings
G Richards age 5
Adeline Richards age 2
Millom is where Barbara is
A Margaret Staveley married Henry Richards 1885 Bootle Cumberland
1901 as Margaret
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tu1/
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My dad was born in 1933 and remembers Elizabeth very well, unfortunately he's no longer around to ask about her death, although I've got a pretty good hint off FindMyPast of 1952 GRO10e/40
Age is good.
Dec 1952 Manchester 10e 40
Bell, Elizabeth Ann
Age 73
Probate for her, a will proved in 1953
Elizabeth Ann Bell of 7 Longworth Street Hulme Manchester, widow
Died 28 November 1952
Probate Manchester 21 February to Elsie Jane Davis, married woman
Effects £584 2s. 2d.
Was Elsie Jane a daughter of Joseph?
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I'm of the opinion that George and Barbara are Elizabeth's grandparents as suggested by jonwarrn yesterday leaving some doubt as to who her actual mother is??
Could she be illegitimate and took the name Staveley in the absence of an unknown father, she used the surname Staveley in her marriage to Charles Bowler and not one from any potential marriage to her birth mother??
As far as I can tell Jon, Joseph and Elizabeth had no children, Elsie is my maternal grandmother, her mother was Mary Ann Clutton (1883-1909) she had a sister Alice and a brother William.
I'm of the opinion the 1952 death for Elizabeth is correct.
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Excellent, it all seems to be coming together.
There is this birth
BOWLER, MAUD LILIAN
Mother's Maiden Surname: STAVELEY
GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 501
But I haven't found anything further.
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1901 in Preston looks promising, although there are a lot of Staveley's about but its not a million miles in a move away from Fleetwood.
I've been looking for Charles Bowlers death between 1899, the year they married, and 1917 which is the year of the first record of Elizabeth and Joseph together.
There's a Charles Henry Bowler died in 1901 age 41 in Chorlton, Manchester but I would assume in the year of his daughters birth in Preston he wouldn't be in Chorlton.
I think we've gone as far with this as we are going to get, my dad saw Elizabeth as his grandmother, he didn't even know about Mary Ann Clutton till I brought it up and neither did his siblings, folks back then kept things very close to there chests didn't they, my wifes mother had 3 siblings die in the first year of infancy and she didn't know anything about them either ::) ::)
Whilst not a blood relative I'm intrigued by Elizabeth, if for no other reason than the journey she took from her birth in Ambleside to Manchester via Fleetwood, another one of those mysteries we wont ever solve, and we've all got loads of those don't we ;D ;D
Can I thank everyone for there input, as usual Rootschat members have come up trumps again.
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Excellent, it all seems to be coming together.
There is this birth
BOWLER, MAUD LILIAN
Mother's Maiden Surname: STAVELEY
GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 501
But I haven't found anything further.
Is this her baptism?
Maud Lilian Bowler
Birth 20 Aug 1901
Baptism 15 Jan 1902 Bradford, St Chrysostom, Yorkshire
Father Charles Bowler occ soldier Elizabeth abode 3 Disal??y St Preston
West Yorkshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910
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What information does the 1918 marriage give for her - does it name her father
BELL Joseph
BOWLER Elizabeth Ann
1918 Congleton, Civil Marriage or Registrar Attended
Cheshire East C/20/158
Have you seen this ?
Joseph Bell
Enlistment Age 33
Marriage Date 1924
Marriage Place Parish Church Wheelock
Document Date 1915
Residence Place 53 Derwent St, Ordsall Lane Salford
Military Date 1915
Regimental Number 6484
Regiment Name Machine Gun Corps Batt Manchester Regiment
Number of Images 4
Form Title Attestation
William (Clutton)child 16 7 04
Elsie Jane Bell Child 8 1 06
Alice Bell Child 15 5 07
All born at Wheelock Cheshire
Under information given by recruit there is crossings out particulars to marriage
faintly written can just make out
Elizabeth Ann Bowler widow
Edit and removed the details of JB Durham Light Infantry, wife Elizabeth Ann as not relevant
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Your half right Ladyhawk ;D
What I already know...............
Joseph was born in 1883 and has had a very chequered military career.
He joined the 21st Lancers in June 1902, lasted 2 days before 'leaving' then rejoined in March 1903, stayed for 2 months this time then bought himself out, I need to investigate this further when I get round to it as I cant find him on a 1901 census.
Fast forward to WW1, he attested on 7/12/1915 in Manchester and was mobilized on 5/1/1917 to the 5th Battalion Manchester Regiment, service number 6484.
He was transferred to the Machine Gun Corp on 9/3/1917 and issued with a new service number 88057 and posted to France in May of that year, he was injured in October of that year but as yet I don't know the extent of that Injury.
He next appears on the service records 14 months later on December 1918, after the war had finished and he was awaiting trial after striking an officer ::)
He was found guilty, sentenced to 5 years hard labour, commuted to 12 months in Cardiff jailed and discharged accordingly on his release.
The details regarding his children on the attestation form are correct, as is the fact he was in a relationship with Elizabeth Ann Bowler who was a widow from a previous marriage to a Charles Bowler in Fleetwood, her birth name was Staveley.
I have evidence she didn't marry Joseph until 1918.
The Joseph Bell in Gateshead is not my Joseph bell.