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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: gemcy on Saturday 21 June 25 15:42 BST (UK)

Title: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: gemcy on Saturday 21 June 25 15:42 BST (UK)
Hi, need help finding Hannah Fenney plus her parents before her marriage to John Waters 16th May 1864 Deptford, Durham (this is in Sunderland) info found on select marriages, Father shown as James Fenney.   
Census 1871 in Pallion, Sunderland shows her born Durham with husband John Waters and 4 children: John James, Robert R, Richard G & Margaret F but I cannot find her before this marriage date with parent JAMES.  I'm supposing the name Fenney could be mis-transcribed earlier ??  Any help appreciated, thank you!
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 21 June 25 15:51 BST (UK)
Birth registrations of children
WATERS, JOHN  JAMES     mmn TEANNEY 
GRO Reference: 1865  J Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 483

WATERS, ROBERT  ROBSON     mmn TEANEY 
GRO Reference: 1866  D Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 438

WATERS, MARGARET  ELEANOR     mmn TANNEY 
GRO Reference: 1868  M Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 488

WATERS, RICHARD  GEORGE     mmn TANNEY 
GRO Reference: 1870  S Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 522

WATERS, SAMUEL       mmn TANNEY 
GRO Reference: 1872  J Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 605

WATERS, MARY  ELIZABETH     mmn TANNEY 
GRO Reference: 1874  M Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 643

WATERS, HANNAH       mmn TENNEY 
GRO Reference: 1877  S Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 584

WATERS, THOMAS  WILLIAM     mmn TANNEY
GRO Reference: 1875  D Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 577
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: mulberry-rose on Saturday 21 June 25 16:24 BST (UK)
Hannah born abt 1839 in County Durham

Possibly this for 1861 census? A servant for the Thwaites family.

Old Elvet, St Oswald, Durham
Hannah Fearney, 20, born Durham, kitchen maid (transcribed as Teaney on Ancestry)
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: gemcy on Saturday 21 June 25 22:28 BST (UK)
Thank you both for your input, had a feeling this was going to have more questions than answers!  Mulberry-rose, think your finding on Census 1861 is quite feasible but which surname do I follow to find Hannah’s parentage, particularly since rosie99 findings of her maiden name on all her children differ somewhat  :) definitely a  ???

May I ask rosie99 wherever did you find that much information on those children? I was under the  impression maiden names weren’t published until 1911!
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: mulberry-rose on Saturday 21 June 25 23:24 BST (UK)
It is quite a puzzle with all these different names!  ;D Do you know who the witnesses for the marriage were?

Maiden names are available on the search register on the GRO website used to order records  https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

These are a few other possible children

WATERS, ANN       TANNEY 
GRO Reference: 1881  M Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 531

WATERS, ALBANY       TANNEY 
GRO Reference: 1883  J Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 592 (died 1884)

WATERS, EDWARD  NORMAN     TENNEY 
GRO Reference: 1885  D Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 534

WATERS, ISABEL       TAMNEY 
GRO Reference: 1887  D Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 501
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: gemcy on Sunday 22 June 25 00:01 BST (UK)
No, only found the marriage info on ancestry didn’t think it was going to be this complicated!  Fenney isn’t that common  ;D  ::)
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: amondg on Sunday 22 June 25 00:35 BST (UK)
Do you have a copy of the marriage certificate?

What is father James occupation?
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 22 June 25 06:49 BST (UK)
*  What other information is on the marriage certificate, 1864?

*  What ages, occupations, address do you see?

*  What church do they marry in?

*  What names do you see for witnesses?

*  Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate.
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: gemcy on Sunday 22 June 25 09:54 BST (UK)
I don’t have any more information other than what I’ve posted unfortunately and the only marriage info is what I found on ancestry which is copied below showing date of marriage & fathers’ name thats all I have.  There seems to be only one church, St Andrew, in Deptford having checked so a strong possibility

How difficult could ‘Fenney’ be I thought  ::)   Getting the marriage certificate seems only way forward or in this case back!  But James Fenney & daughter Hannah don’t appear as far as I can see before her marriage

From marriages on Ancestry:
Name: Hannah Fenney,  Gender Female, Age 23 Birth Date 1841 Marriage Date 16 May 1864
Marriage Place Deptford, Durham, England   Father James Fenney Spouse John Waters
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 22 June 25 14:41 BST (UK)
From marriages on Ancestry:
Name: Hannah Fenney,  Gender Female, Age 23 Birth Date 1841 Marriage Date 16 May 1864
Marriage Place Deptford, Durham, England   Father James Fenney Spouse John Waters


Ancestry also have it as this and they are both supposedly transcripts from the same film  :-\
Hannah Fenney
Female
Marriage    16 May 1864
Marriage Place   Bishop-Wearmouth, Durham, England
Father James Fenney
Spouse   John Waters
FHL Film Number   1514556
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: MollyC on Sunday 22 June 25 15:11 BST (UK)
The confusion between F and T probably arises from the similarity of those letters in handwriting used in the period, and later.  The only difference is a small horizontal stroke added to the F.  Those forms were still being taught in schools up to the mid-20th cent.
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: JenB on Sunday 22 June 25 16:52 BST (UK)
Hannah Fearney, 20, born Durham, kitchen maid (transcribed as Teaney on Ancestry)

I think Tearney/Teaney is the correct transcription. There is no stroke through the vertical as there is for the names starting ‘F’ on the same page (compare with Fowler on the next line down).
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: gemcy on Sunday 22 June 25 17:23 BST (UK)
From marriages on Ancestry:
Name: Hannah Fenney,  Gender Female, Age 23 Birth Date 1841 Marriage Date 16 May 1864
Marriage Place Deptford, Durham, England   Father James Fenney Spouse John Waters


Ancestry also have it as this and they are both supposedly transcripts from the same film  :-\
Hannah Fenney
Female
Marriage    16 May 1864
Marriage Place   Bishop-Wearmouth, Durham, England
Father James Fenney
Spouse   John Waters
FHL Film Number   1514556

And there lies another problem ‘Bishopwearmouth’ has a fair few churches within its area, Deptford being one but slightly on the edge!  I only know this having just consulted map with churches in the vicinity!

Census’ 1871,81,91 state Hannah born Durham, Durham but the 1901 actually says Durham City so that would probably fit the 1861 where she was kitchen maid at what appears to be a hotel owned by the Thwaits
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: MollyC on Sunday 22 June 25 19:08 BST (UK)
Family Search has both spellings in its Person View (not nec. correct).
Hannah has ID GRL3-WH3, spelled Teaney, with father named as James Fennay GRL3-TWL.
Then alternative spellings Tannay, Tinney as Mother at baptisms.  It seems the spelling Fennay only appears in the marriage transcript.

https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/377285
"Films from originals in Durham County Record Office" so maybe viewing that, or obtaining a copy directly, is the only way to resolve it.
Also, for info: "Deptford is a chapelry in the parish of Bishop-Wearmouth."
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: softly softly on Sunday 22 June 25 19:38 BST (UK)
Deleted
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 22 June 25 19:55 BST (UK)
If Boo were here she might be able to tell you if you can get a cheaper copy of the marriage from The Story (Durham Record Office), taken from the microfilm of the parish register.
As of last year it seems this very useful service cost £5
https://recordofficeshop.durham.gov.uk/pgQuickSearch

Reference details for that Deptford St Andrew marriage
(Register dates) Dec 1863 to Jan 1874   
Original reference EP/Su.SA 21   
Microfilm M42/1061

Throw in a contact form just in case!
https://www.thestorydurham.org/contact-us/

Death of Hannah?
Sep 1909 Sunderland 10a 287
Waters, Hannah   
Age 69   

She was buried at Bishopwearmouth Cemetery, 3 October 1909
Image here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS6T-N9N8-L
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: MollyC on Sunday 22 June 25 20:57 BST (UK)
It is hard to find Deptford as a district named on a map, it seems absorbed into Sunderland at an early date.  On this OS survey of 1855 it is to the north of the large "SUNDERLAND" and east of a boundary shown with Pallion, probably including the whole northwards meander of the River Wear.  Within that area I can find Deptford Ho(use), Deptford Ter(race), Deptford Chemical Wks, Iron Wo'ks, Patent Ropery and also
St. Andrew's Ch.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/102341485#zoom=5.5&lat=2718&lon=5087&layers=BT
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: gemcy on Monday 23 June 25 08:10 BST (UK)
Thank you all very much for all the information found plus the links supplied by jonwarrn.  Will look into the Durham record office shop for the Marriage of Hannah and hopefully it will supply information about her fathers occupation and her address at the time of the marriage

So on searching for her and her father before the 1864 marriage with the confusion of surname Fenney, would I now be looking at spelling Tearney/Teaney/Tannay/Tenney & Tinney, as mentioned by JenB, MollyC also rosie99 findings on children’s birth registrations, for Hannah & her dad James?
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: fiddlerslass on Monday 23 June 25 11:23 BST (UK)
I am wondering if Hannah was not actually born in Durham but lived there as a young child, as I can't find any birth registration under any variation starting F or T. 1840+/-2

There is a Bridget Farney age 19 born Ireland working as a servant in 1851 for an Elizabeth Clark at Crossgate Durham. Older sister or relation?

Irish names are often terribly misspelt in records, which may explain all the different spellings.



Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: ChrissieL on Monday 23 June 25 11:45 BST (UK)
On the 1851 census there is a Fenney family living in Durham City.
Class: HO107; Piece: 2391; Folio: 186; Page: 16; GSU roll: 87069

Sherburn Road Durham

William 36 Head
Hannah 34 Wife
William 13 Son
Mary Ann 11 daughter
John 8 Son
Elizabeth Jane 5 daughter
Rosanna 1 daughter

No Hannah Fenney born 1841 though and no James Fenney.


Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: gemcy on Monday 23 June 25 13:03 BST (UK)
ChrissieL .. possibly a relative??

Discovered this morning my local library has microfilm facilities and the librarian kindly did a copy of the marriage registration as they had St Andrews church records  :D

I’m attaching, hopefully, a copy of the marriage registration
Title: Re: Hannah Fenney born abt 1841
Post by: MollyC on Monday 23 June 25 14:23 BST (UK)
This gives Hannah and her father with surnames which appear to be Fenney, but then for the signature:
"The + mark of Hannah Tenney"

Was the curate unsure of the spelling?