RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: kokomo on Saturday 21 June 25 00:30 BST (UK)
-
Hello
I am trying to decipher the place of death of Thomas Chistian. It begins with B and ends of Killoy it seems but I am not sure
-
There are a number of places named Ballakilley and similar "farm of the church" etc.
https://isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/gazateer/balla.htm
Which church is the burial record? - that may help to locate it.
-
Hi, thanks for the feedback.
Marown is the parish
-
There is this Ballakilley in Marown on this 1868 map. A possibility?
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102343407#zoom=6.9&lat=9921&lon=3857&layers=BT
Or this Ballaskelly
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102343398#zoom=6.0&lat=2895&lon=13378&layers=BT
What year and name of of the church do you have?
Modified to add:
You can see in the gazateer I linked, there are a number of possibilities in Marown. :)
-
No specific church and the year is 1742 IIRC
-
According to ManxNoteBook, https://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/gazateer/balla.htm:
Ballakelly in Marown is now "The Nab".
There isn't a Ballaskelly in Marown, but there is in Bride and Onchan.
Balla means farm or homestead, and there are 600 or so of them!
Ballakelly means "Kelly's Farm".
-
Could also be BallaKilley?
"The farm of, or near, the (parish) church". Now Ellerslie.
Bishop's Barony.
Looking at my copy of "The Place-Names of the Isle of Man", J.J. Kneen, 1970 reprint, I can't see any other likely names?
Just a note: Christian is a very common surname on the island!
-
No specific church and the year is 1742 IIRC
The church would have been St Runius Church.
St Runius, Marown ("Old Marown Church") dates to the 12th century and was the parish church of Marown until 1853. Today it only holds services for special occasions.
Just found this:
Thomas Christian (1754–1828) was the second son of John Christian (1728–1779), Vicar of Marown for 26 years, from 1753 to 1779, and his wife Elizabeth. Thomas Christian's father is notable for having translated the Second Book of Kings from the Bible into the Manx language.
After his father's death in September 1779, Thomas Christian became Vicar of Marown, moving into the manse at Ballakilley and taking up the post of Vicar in 1780. He thus followed both his father, John, and grandfather, Thomas, in being Vicar of the Parish, a line which began with his grandfather's appointment in 1734.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_St_Runius,_Marown
Possible family?
-
Ahh KGarrad has given the surname of Christian - this is correct rather than Chistian as given by OP. :)
-
Just a note: Christian is a very common surname on the island!
I see what you mean!!
-
"The works of the Right Reverend Father in God Thomas Wilson, D.D, Lord Bishop of Sodor and Man ..." - several editions.
The form of consecrating began "Towards the building and endowing of St Patrick's Church ...".I'm assuming the 2 ordinations did not relate to that church.
-
See pages 65 note 15 and Kirk Marown 192-195.
https://archive.org/details/felthamstourthr00feltgoog/page/n4/mode/2up
-
From an alphabetical list of vicars of the Isle of Man (https://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/people/vicars/alist.htm):
Christian Thomas 1691-1703 Patrick
Christian Thomas 1697-1698 Jurby
Christian Thomas 1713-1729 Rushen
Christian Thomas 1733-1741 German
Christian Thomas 1734-1753 Marown
Christian Thomas 1780-1799 Marown
So it looks like there were 2 vicars called Thomas Christian in the 1730s and 1740s.
-
Memoirs of Mark Hildesley, D.D., Lord Bishop aof Sodor and Mann (pub 1799)
Mandate to inthrone Bishop HILDESLEY in the See of Sodor & Mann; ...."
Witnesses
-
Some interesting finds, hanes teulu :D
-
Thanks.
From your list of Manx vicars, the Parish of German candidate, 1733-41) does not "fit" the only burial I can spot for that year (transcripts only for me!) -
Thomas Christian, age 0, 14 Oct 1741, Jurby
The burial at Balla...killy (or similar) for Thomas Christian, 5 Aug 1742, does not "fit" the Thomas Christian, vicar at Marown 1734-53.
I was drawn to the Thomas Christian having children at Marown 1735-1741 - wife Joney Killey. Looking at Ballakilley as "Killey's farm" - clutching at straws!.
-
My apologies. It was Christian indeed. You see, in many many places I've found it as Xtian and perhaps when I typed it I left the r behind. My mistake.
And yes, we are referring to that branch of the Christians. It seems that one of my ancestors was indeed the vicar. I found out that on a marriage record mentioning the wedding of a "reverend XX Christian the Vicar of..."
It seems my second GGF and GGm were both Manx and I am now tracing back that family line. Which I must say it has been much more easy to track due to plenty of data at imuseum.im website. I found very useful the mentioning of the wife's maiden name at records.
Cheers
-
Thanks.
From your list of Manx vicars, the Parish of German candidate, 1733-41) does not "fit" the only burial I can spot for that year (transcripts only for me!) -
Thomas Christian, age 0, 14 Oct 1741, Jurby
The burial at Balla...killy (or similar) for Thomas Christian, 5 Aug 1742, does not "fit" the Thomas Christian, vicar at Marown 1734-53.
I was drawn to the Thomas Christian having children at Marown 1735-1741 - wife Joney Killey. Looking at Ballakilley as "Killey's farm" - clutching at straws!.
Apparently (!) Ballakilley can also mean homestead/farm of/near the church?
I believe that the dates for the vicars are when they were in service?
Some of them moved to a different parish, or retired.
-
ManxNoteBook has some Christian family trees.
https://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/famhist/families/awm1889/index.htm
Christian's of Ballacoarey (Ballaquarrys), Andreas
Christian's of Lewaigue
Christian's of Milntown and Ewanrigg Hall
Christian's of Pooildhooie and the Flat
Christian's of Ronaldsway
-
The clergy database confirms the appointments of the two at Marown - tho' years covered differ slightly.
https://theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/search/index.jsp
-
Very strange!
That database (CCED) shows the second thomas with dates 1778-1796, in the index.
But dates of 1780-1796 for Ordination as Priest, and appointment as Vicar of Marown.
-
For the sake of clarification, this is the branch of the Christian family I am referring to (Thomas highlighted in yellow)
Jane<--Daniel<--John<--Thomas Sr<--John (I just found him on Thomas's baptism record)
There is another branch of Mary (wife of James Killey) which I have not investigated that much yet
ps: I have doubts about Elinor Curlet being his wife, but that is a matter for another topic I believe
-
I think you'll find Ellinor was a Corlett!
Still a common Manx surname.
-
The thing is I have not yet been able to find any record linking her to my confirmed GGF Christian. Not on the specific Manx database not on others such as ancestry or familysearch. The only link is a supposed will of the 1730's mentioning an Ellinor Christian "als Corlet" but it's a transcription not an original. And being a Christian a common surname on the island I am not sure.
-
"als" means alias.
It was the Manx way to refer to women by their maiden name, as well as their married name.
You see it often in burial records.
-
Thanks, I suspected that much. It has only been found that my 2nd GGF and GGM were from the IOM so I am just learning about the peculiarities of the island.
This is the will I was referring to
Marown 1733, will of Mrs. Elinor Chritian als Curlet died 10 Nov, grandchildren viz: Thos Christian and Elinor Cowley. Son in law Wm. Cottier and her dau Abigail. Other sons and dau, maid Joney Quile, estate of Balleyomary. Husband Thos Christian exex. Wit. Wm. Cubin and Joney Quile.
-
Coming back to the original enquiry, I just came across this will of Thomas Christian where the name of Ballanekilley appears
-
Coming back to the original enquiry, I just came across this will of Thomas Christian where the name of Ballanekilley appears
Original image:-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN6-79KH-V?cat=234410&i=274&lang=en
C
-
Thanks, I suspected that much. It has only been found that my 2nd GGF and GGM were from the IOM so I am just learning about the peculiarities of the island.
This is the will I was referring to
Marown 1733, will of Mrs. Elinor Chritian als Curlet died 10 Nov, grandchildren viz: Thos Christian and Elinor Cowley. Son in law Wm. Cottier and her dau Abigail. Other sons and dau, maid Joney Quile, estate of Balleyomary. Husband Thos Christian exex. Wit. Wm. Cubin and Joney Quile.
Original image:-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSND-1SYD-5?cat=233934&i=129&lang=en
C
-
Thank you so so much! That's the proof I was needing. On Elinor's will it mentions her husband Thomas, therefore his name is confirmed and also that she passed away before him. Much appreciated