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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => Topic started by: Helenw52 on Wednesday 18 June 25 04:10 BST (UK)
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Just found the birth certificate of my Uncle. He has been recorded under his Mother's second name, (Not her surname, as we would know it by) with no Father recorded. My Uncle was always known by the surname of his Father. Is there any records I can check - when he changed his name? Would the Father been able to change the surname? Thinking of the school records - when he turned 5. Where are the primary school records held from mid 1930s.
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Hi Helen
If you google ... "NZSG + school records" ... you'll get several results which give details of the collections they, (NZ Society of Genealogists), hold.
There are also instructions for non-members on how to gain access to these school records.
~ Lu
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I think I am right in saying that NZ law closely follows (followed?) the laws of England & Wales (Scotland has a different legal system).
Under the laws of England & Wales, a person can call themselves anything they like, just as long as there is no intention to deceive or defraud.
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My Uncle was always known by the surname of his Father. Is there any records I can check - when he changed his name? Would the Father been able to change the surname?
Hi again
Hopefully there'll be something for you amongst NZSG school records ;) (see earlier post).
If that doesn't prove helpful, you could try electoral rolls. Your uncle would have supplied his own information upon enrolment to vote.
Yes, the Father (or any other guardian of a child) could change the name ... but to avoid prosecution, there would need to be a valid or compelling reason for doing so.
[The same applied to adults - changing or altering their names. ]
~ Lu
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Hi KGarrad
.... our posts crossed. ;)
And yes, you are correct >
Under the laws of England & Wales, a person can call themselves anything they like, just as long as there is no intention to deceive or defraud.
.
I believe that same law still applies to this day.
~ Lu
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Thanks Lu. Regretfully I couldn't figure out how to access the NZSG School records, as I'm not a subscriber - also the info re Electoral roll. I'll try to see what they have, but I'm pretty sure he used his Father's name at a younger age.
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Electoral roll showed his Father's surname. So it's probably a name change - to show his father's surname.
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Hi Helen
Do you want to put names of uncle and his father here ? We may be able to help further. ;)
~ Lu
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Thanks for your help. He was born Joseph Moy, and died as Joseph Chong. I always knew him as Joe Chong, from the 50s. Primary school was Manaia mid-late 1930s.
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Just found the birth certificate of my Uncle. He has been recorded under his Mother's second name, (Not her surname, as we would know it by) with no Father recorded.
Hi Helen
Given the above details from Uncle's birth certificate, is it possible that his mother later went on to marry a Mr. CHONG ?
~ Lu
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No, she was the second Mother in the family. The first was in a mental Hospital from 1925-26. She left NZ under her maiden name, with an older daughter (about 5 years old), also under her Mother's maiden name. I suspect that she came here with her daughter, as I can't find her birth certificate anywhere. And then she left a few years later, with her daughter, and left her 3 year old son with the father. Perhaps the father changed the son's name after the mother left. Not sure what happened.
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Hi Helen
A little bit difficult to proceed further ... I'm not sure either what you mean by "second mother" ??
Does that mean that Joseph had a stepmother ?
Are you able to share the maiden name of Joseph's mother ? Amended to ask ... was his mother's maiden name, MOY ?
~ Lu
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No - we didn't have step Mothers in those days. We had second mothers/ third mothers etc in our culture. The name that she used when she left the country was O'Young, and her daughter left as Dora Oyoung. In actual fact it should have been Au Yeung. Lots of name changes as a result on immigration records in those days. The names were spelt as they sounded. Was there anything in the school records?
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Hi Helen
Did you make an enquiry re: school records to the Hawera Genealogy Group ?
~ Lu
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Yes, just heard that they have the list - so have PM them to have a look. There is no on left to ask what happened, so I'm just going to have to assume at this stage. But thanks for your help Lu. And Thank goodness this website is still going. I haven't had to use it for ages.
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Hi Helen
Oh that's good news.
As the Hawera Group is attached to NZSG, then it's likely that their school lists will be those compiled by NZSG.
If you need any more help then RootsChat is always a good place to come to.
I wish you good luck. :)
~ Lu
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Thanks Lu
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I have just received a copy of the birth certificate from BDM. Unfortunately there was nothing new to what I thought. But the name of the child was Joseph (Deceased) Moy. Now that astounds me, as my Uncle Joe was not deceased at birth. The address he was born was correct. Main Street, Manaia. Can anyone tell me what the word Deceased was in reference to? No Father was recorded. The DOB is correct 28/1/32.
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BTW - I was told that I could get a print out (Not the certificate) of the Birth Certificate. How do you get that from BDM? What difference would it be to the certificate?
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Have had advice re Deceased on Birth Certificate. BDM Notarise the Death on the Birth Certificate - to prevent fraud.
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BTW - I was told that I could get a print out (Not the certificate) of the Birth Certificate. How do you get that from BDM? What difference would it be to the certificate?
The option for printout is right above (or below) the option for the certificate on the bdm ordering page
The print out costs less (slightly)
The print out contains all the information supplied / recorded in the register.
The certificate does not.
Also, the image of the printout comes by email. So faster.
The NZ BDM site says
“What is a printout?
Generally a scanned image of the record.
It is in a typed format for an event from 1998.
It is also typed for earlier records which have been updated or corrected.
What is a certificate?
An official document containing registered information.
A certificate contains less information than a printout.”
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Thanks for the reply - I'll know for next time.
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Had confirmation from Hawera Genealogy group regarding my Uncle's change of name, from Moy to Chong. However, haven't found any evidence of an official name change ie via Deed Poll. Would this have to have been done, in order for him to go about his daily life, like get married, vote etc. If so, where should I be looking for this? Also another mystery. It appears as if he returned to NZ at the age of 8, with his Mother, in 1939. I can't find him ever leaving NZ. Also he was enrolled at primary school from 1937 to 1944.
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Had confirmation from Hawera Genealogy group regarding my Uncle's change of name, from Moy to Chong. However, haven't found any evidence of an official name change ie via Deed Poll. Would this have to have been done, in order for him to go about his daily life, like get married, vote etc. If so, where should I be looking for this? Also another mystery. It appears as if he returned to NZ at the age of 8, with his Mother, in 1939. I can't find him ever leaving NZ. Also he was enrolled at primary school from 1937 to 1944.
Hi Helen
No, he would not be required to change his name by Deed Poll.
It was back then, (as long as a name change was not as a result of say, concealing criminal activity), simply a case of being able to prove that his (new) chosen name, was the name by which he was commonly known. [That "law" apparently still stands to this day.]
~ Lu
Edited to add : Just re-reading earlier in this thread where his name was probably changed at an early age when his father became his legal guardian. So in effect, his name change by the time he reached adulthood, was long established anyway.
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Thanks Lu - I shall stop looking for a name change then. Just the question of whether he did go to China remains. I'll focus on that for the moment.
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Also another mystery. It appears as if he returned to NZ at the age of 8, with his Mother, in 1939. I can't find him ever leaving NZ. Also he was enrolled at primary school from 1937 to 1944.
Hi Helen
Leaving New Zealand : Not a lot of published lists for departures unfortunately.
If you knew precisely where he was travelling to, then there may be passenger arrival lists available at that place.
1939 : * Have you already found a listing of his arrival into NZ at this time ??
~ Lu
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Yes, I have found his arrival date back to NZ. But it appears that he didn't leave with his family. I already have the list for when the family left, but he is not with them.
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Is he the "Master J. MOY aged 8 years (with Mrs C. MOY - 34 yrs)" arriving in NZ from Sydney on 13 June 1939 per ship "Awatea" ??
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Yes that's right. His family left on the Monowai on 18 May 1934, under different names. And he is definitely not on the list. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KGM3-V6Q
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Hi again Helen
Probably a silly question, but might Joseph have gone at a date later than 1934 ? He was then only a very small child at that time.
And I know you said he was placed in his father's custody at about age three.
Could it be that another family member (> maybe from his father's side ?) accompanied him to China ... and then in 1939 his mother has travelled with him back to NZ ??
~ Lu
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That's the puzzle. His kids don't know, and I was too young to know. But not likely that anyone in the family would have taken him back. I have one other person to ask - if she is still alive. Just need to find that lady - she was over 90 at the time covid 19 hit, and her grandson was made redundant at the same time as my daughter - so have lost contact with him.