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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Raybistre on Tuesday 17 June 25 17:34 BST (UK)

Title: Elusive Couple
Post by: Raybistre on Tuesday 17 June 25 17:34 BST (UK)
Hi all, I have decided that some assistance is needed on this one.
I have a birth of a Violet Rose on the 24th October 1901 at 4 Gladstone Buildings, Eversley Rd, Aston. The birth was registered by the mother on the 4th December 1901 of the same address in the Aston Registration District. The father is recorded as William Joseph Young, a Confectioner Journeyman and the mother as Mary Ann Young formerly Davies. I think the child was adopted by the time of the 1911 census and if I am right appears under a different name in that census.
I have not been able to find the parents in the 1901 census.
There is a possible marriage in the Pontypridd Registration District, Qtr 1, 1894.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Ray
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 17 June 25 17:41 BST (UK)
If they married in 1894 have you checked GRO online for any other Young births with mmn Davies

Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 17 June 25 18:13 BST (UK)
1897 birth Aston William Joseph Young
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: ColC on Tuesday 17 June 25 18:21 BST (UK)
I note there are two marriages for that couples names.

Marriages Dec 1892
DAVIES Mary Ann to Young William Joseph
 Holywell 11b 457

Marriages Mar 1894
Davies Mary Ann to Young William Joseph
Pontypridd 11a 721

Colin
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: ColC on Tuesday 17 June 25 18:32 BST (UK)
The couple married at Holywell had no children registered there.

The couple married at Pontypridd, Twin boys 1895 two other sons 1898 & 1900.

Colin
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: ColC on Tuesday 17 June 25 18:58 BST (UK)
I cannot find them on 1901/1911 census but boys names might help others.

PONTYPRIDD mmn DAVIES

CHARLES   & EBENEZER  PETER Q1/1895
WILLIAM Q2/1898, IVOR  JAMES  Q4/1900

Colin
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 17 June 25 19:07 BST (UK)
Possible death of one twin

Deaths Dec 1897   (>99%)
Young    Ebenezer Peter    2    Knighton    11b   93
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: Raybistre on Tuesday 17 June 25 19:13 BST (UK)
Colin, Young and Davies seem to be quite common names and marriages between couples of that surname are not uncommon. Not sure if William Joseph Young was the spouse of Mary Ann Davies as 4 people on the page in 1894. Can't be the couple I am looking for if they were in Aston in 1897 not Knighton.
Carole, thanks for finding William Joseph Young b. 4 April 1897. I have downloaded the digital image. The address is 2 Windsor St, Aston and the father's occupation is Baker Journeyman, parents names identical.
I am tracing a DNA match and it connects to the side of my family that originates in South Wales and the West Country which is why I was drawn to the Pontypridd marriage. I also have Davies ancestors in South Wales.
Ray
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 17 June 25 19:18 BST (UK)
In 1901 at 11, West Street, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England, is this couple. (I believe Polly is a reasonably common nickname for someone named Mary)

William   Young   Visitor   Married   Male   28   1873   Confectioner   Walsall, Staffordshire,
Pollie   Young   Visitor   Married   Female   26   1875   -   Wales
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: Raybistre on Tuesday 17 June 25 19:59 BST (UK)
I do believe you have cracked it mckha489. The place of birth of Polly is Lwynypia in the Rhondda Valley where I have a Mary Ann Davies born in my tree at about the right date. I shall go ahead now and order the 1894 Pontypridd marriage certificate.
Ancestry has the surname of William and Pollie (sic) as Goring.
Will have to look now as to what happened to William Joseph Young born 4th April 1897 as he is not with his parents in 1901.
Thanks to all.
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: softly softly on Tuesday 17 June 25 20:47 BST (UK)
Is this William Joseph Youngs death.

SS
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 17 June 25 21:15 BST (UK)
Which makes one wonder if Ebenezer Peter is theirs after all.
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 17 June 25 22:52 BST (UK)
Here is William Joseph in 1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7PW-Q37?lang=en  New wife, so presumably Mary/Pollie died?

He appears still  to be alive in 1921, saying he is married. He's with a relative in Salford. That person has a young daughter Violet Rose Young, so the name clearly is important to them

Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 17 June 25 22:56 BST (UK)
Ivor Young looks to be a nurse child in North Evington, Leicester in 1901. Place of birth Blaenclydach
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 18 June 25 10:59 BST (UK)
This may be of no use but below is a 1911 census in Aston for a Violet Rose Ford. As far as I can see no birth for that name in Aston. It might be worth a look?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZZ-3C9?lang=en

Colin
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: Raybistre on Wednesday 18 June 25 19:46 BST (UK)
I suspect Violet Rose Young b.24th Oct 1901 appears as 9 yr old Cissie Davies in the 1911 census, the adopted daughter of James Rees Davies, Baptist Minister in Abercynon, Glamorgan.
On her marriage she is recorded as Violet Young Davis, her father as James Reese Davis, Baptist Minister. The mother's maiden names recorded on the births of her children are Young-Davies and Davies. Her death certificate records her forenames as Violet Rose. If her mother, Mary Ann Young, is who I now suspect she is, James Rees Davies would be Mary Ann's father's half brother and Mary Ann  would be my grandmother's sister.
William Joseph Young seems to have wanderlust. Walsall, Rhondda Valley, Aston, Knighton, Rhondda Valley, Aston, Nottingham, New Tredegar, Salford and probably lots of places in between.
I need to order more documentation, births and the all important marriage certificate.
Presumably Mary Ann Young died between December 1901 and the remarriage of William Joseph Young in the first quarter of 1906. The death could be anywhere with the family moving about so much. Many thanks all for the help given, Ray
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 18 June 25 20:07 BST (UK)
I’ve been looking for a death for Mary Ann/Poll*. There are several consistent with a year of birth 1875, all over the place, but I feel we can rule,out Northumberland and Wiltshire at first pass anyway.

And wonder about

Deaths Jun 1904   (>99%)
Young    Mary Ann    29    Bridgend    11a   390
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: Raybistre on Wednesday 18 June 25 20:58 BST (UK)
Does look good. Thank you. The burial was in the parish of Newcastle, Glamorgan.
Mary Ann Young age 29 yrs of Aberkenfig buried April 14th 1904.
I have ordered the 1894 marriage certificate and will wait for that before ordering any more certificates.
Ray
Title: Re: Elusive Couple
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 18 June 25 21:22 BST (UK)
This may be of no use but below is a 1911 census in Aston for a Violet Rose Ford. As far as I can see no birth for that name in Aston. It might be worth a look?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZZ-3C9?lang=en

Colin

Meant to post this earlier, but just to confirm Violet in this link belongs to the family she's with. siblings also have mmn Francis

FORD, VIOLET  ROSE
mmn      FRANCIS     
Q1 1900
ASTON  Volume 06D  Page 482