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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: baytree1970 on Monday 16 June 25 17:33 BST (UK)
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I'm struggling to find records on the family of Peter Fiorintone (a merchant navy sailor) and wife Rose (née Mary Rosina Chandler, born 1865 in Bristol but grew up in Cardiff, parents Henry and Martha Chandler)
The problem is the name seems to be spelled differently every time:
GRO Marriage - Peter Furintione and Rosina Chandler, Q1 1885, Cardiff
The couple seem to have had three children:
1. William Henry born 11 Sept 1889 - GRO birth cert has name as "Furintione" - parents address 84 Coburn St, St John, Cardiff
2. Victoria Peppina, born July 1894 - GRO birth cert has name as "Fiorention" - address 14 Adam Street, St John, Cardiff
3. Joseph John, born 5 Mar 1905 - GRO birth cert has name as "Fiorentino" - address 30 Windsor Road, Cardiff
Only census entry I can find is 1901 - mother Rose and daughter Peppina living with Rose's parents Henry and Martha at 161 Castle Road, St John, Cardiff
The only death record I can find is for their child William Henry, who died less than a year old in 1890. I haven't ordered the death cert.
Also haven't ordered the marriage for Peter and Mary yet.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
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Unless you can find him on a census to establish his birthplace - you need the marriage cert.
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Which child are you descended from?
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Mary was my great grandaunt.
Will consider getting the marriage cert.
What about the kids though?
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I think this is the marriage of Victoria Dec q 1927
Castellane Alphonse Fiorentino Hendon 3a 902
She has an alternative surname of Jonathan
1939 register she goes by first name Josephine, but the entry has Victoria Peppina written above. Rosina b. 1863, a widow, is with them.
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I think this is the marriage of Victoria Dec q 1927
Castellane Alphonse Fiorentino Hendon 3a 902
She has an alternative surname of Jonathan
1939 register she goes by first name Josephine, but the entry has Victoria Peppina written above. Rosina b. 1863, a widow, is with them.
That's an amazing find! thank you, that's definitely them. How did you find it?
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I found it following up her death registration
Deaths Sep 1978
CASTELLANE VICTORIA PEPPINA 25 JY 1894 BOURNEMOUTH 23 30
Think this is her mother
Dec 1952
FIORENTINO Mary R 87 Christchurch 6b 203
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Again, amazing - thanks so much
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Deleted
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GRO online confirms the 1952 death names as Mary Rosina
You can download a digital copy of the death cert for £3 from the GRO site
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Daughter was possibly previously married. When she married Alphonse she also had surname Jonathan.
1921 census look for Victorina Josephine Jonathan
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added, Alphonse also had 2 surnames at marriage--see Freebmd entry
1st Husband
Births Dec 1889
Jonathan David Hughes Aberayron 11b 45
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David H Jonathan married one of these people
Victoria J Fiorentino
1912 overseas register in Malta
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Victoria's son's marriage
Marriages Mar 1937
Jonathan Eric M H Wicks Hampstead 1a 1414
Wicks Constance V Jonathan Hampstead 1a 1414
They appear together in 1939 with 2 redacted children.
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Thanks again...
I found a directory entry for Peter Fiorentino, father of Victoria Peppina, he was boarding at the Malteese [sic] Sailors' boarding house in Cardiff around 1900. I note Eric Jonathan was born in Malta. So a Maltese connection maybe?
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Death of Eric's wife
Deaths 1986
JONATHAN CONSTANCE VIOLET 20JA1912 BRENT 11 1003
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added, David Hughes Jonathan appears in 1911 military census in Malta.
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Thanks again...
I found a directory entry for Peter Fiorentino, father of Victoria Peppina, he was boarding at the Malteese [sic] Sailors' boarding house in Cardiff around 1900. I note Eric Jonathan was born in Malta. So a Maltese connection maybe?
Possibly actually Pietro? This article about a sad incident suggests he ran the boarding house.
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3341820/3341823/32/philippo%2BOR%2Bpace
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4604846/4604848/24/philippo%2BOR%2Bpace
One article quotes Pietro as saying he's a native of Malta
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Have found Peter & Rosina in 1891 in Adam St. ancestry have transcribed them as Firmstone! Says he's from Cardiff and she's from Malta
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1901 census--151, Bute Street, Cardiff, St Mary, Glamorganshire, Wales
Lawrence Mellia - Widower Male 47 1854 Seamens boarding hse keeper -
*Catherine Fiorentino Manageress Widow Female 31 1870 Housekeeper (domestic) Bridgend, Glamorganshire, Wales
**Mary M Fiorentino - Single Female 9 1892 - Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Mary J Griffiths Servant Single Female 16 1885 General servt (domestic) Llandaff, Glamorganshire, Wales
James Lund Boarder Single Male 20 1881 Ships steward -
George Massie Boarder Single Male 37 1864 Marine fireman Malta
Frank Compervello Boarder Single Male 55 1846 Sailor Malta
Antony Massie Boarder Single Male 29 1872 Marine fireman Austria
Vincent Gaberilo Boarder
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Mrs Fiorentino, 33 and Pepino, 5 (female) are noted as coming into London on 2 Nov 1899 on a ship that started in Calcutta and picked them up in Malta (Ancestry have the former as their embarkation point, but the image is clear they are later joiners)
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1901 census--151, Bute Street, Cardiff, St Mary, Glamorganshire, Wales
Lawrence Mellia - Widower Male 47 1854 Seamens boarding hse keeper -
*Catherine Fiorentino Manageress Widow Female 31 1870 Housekeeper (domestic) Bridgend, Glamorganshire, Wales
**Mary M Fiorentino - Single Female 9 1892 - Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Mary J Griffiths Servant Single Female 16 1885 General servt (domestic) Llandaff, Glamorganshire, Wales
James Lund Boarder Single Male 20 1881 Ships steward -
George Massie Boarder Single Male 37 1864 Marine fireman Malta
Frank Compervello Boarder Single Male 55 1846 Sailor Malta
Antony Massie Boarder Single Male 29 1872 Marine fireman Austria
Vincent Gaberilo Boarder Single Male 55 1846 Cook (ships) Malta
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* Catherine Steele
** Mary Fortunato
FORTUNATO, MARY mmn STEELE
GRO Reference: 1890 J Quarter in STOURBRIDGE Volume 06C Page 168
1891 census 2385 45 37
Is this more likely, given her age is 9?
FURINTINE, MELITA
mmn HYDE
Q4 1891
CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 367
Marriages Q3 1885
Cardiff Vol 11a p466
Fiortini Salvo
HYDE Mary Catherine
PICKFORD Emily
PICKFORD William George
Salvio is another Maltese seaman
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Mary Catherine Fiorentino marries Lawrence Mellia in 1905
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Spot on Mabel bagshawe, I will amend my post shortly
SS
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Thanks everyone for your help with this, I'll go through it properly later. Amazing sleuthing, thanks!
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David H Jonathan married one of these people
Victoria J Fiorentino
1912 overseas register in Malta
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Can you please tell me where I can see the overseas regiter you refer to?
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Marriages Q3 1885
Cardiff Vol 11a p466
Fiortini Salvo
HYDE Mary Catherine
PICKFORD Emily
PICKFORD William George
Salvio is another Maltese seaman
Just a coincidence that Salvo was also called Fiorentino and resided at the same address in Bute St as Peter Fiorentino?
I can't find anything much on Salvo - a couple of war records maybe.
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1901 Census has - ref Piece 4982 Page 72 Folio 40
an Annie Furintine and Catherine Hayde with Bridgend place of birth
at 1 Hodge Court, Cardiff
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Marriages Q3 1885
Cardiff Vol 11a p466
Fiortini Salvo
HYDE Mary Catherine
PICKFORD Emily
PICKFORD William George
Salvio is another Maltese seaman
Just a coincidence that Salvo was also called Fiorentino and resided at the same address in Bute St as Peter Fiorentino?
I can't find anything much on Salvo - a couple of war records maybe.
I wasn't sure about those, given Mary Catherine says she's a widow in 1901, unless they split up. They had another child Annie, b c1886, who is with Granny Hyde in 1901
This from 1897 says that boarding house was kept by Rose Foronentroso - Rosina? Looks like various family members could be running it depending on who's available: https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3267745/3267748/57/151%2BOR%2BBute%2BOR%2BStreet
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David H Jonathan married one of these people
Victoria J Fiorentino
1912 overseas register in Malta
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Can you please tell me where I can see the overseas regiter you refer to?
It's a sub-category on Findmypast
British Armed Forces and Overseas Banns and Marriages Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Civil Marriage & Divorce
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FindMyPast Merchant Seamen
Peter Furentine, born 1827 Malta, first went to sea as a boy 1839, when unemployed resides Malta, Issued at Shields, 21 Sep 1846
2 Voyages recorded "old style" - can only recognise "S" - Seaman
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Malta BMDs
https://en.geneanum.com/malta/databases.html
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An Annie Fiorentino married 2nd qtr., 1903, Cardiff, 11a 693 - Edward Borg
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Annie and Edward Borg had Mary Catherine 1903 and Lawrence 1907. Confirmed mother's maiden name on GRO (Furentine).
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Edward and Annie Borge at 11 Hannah Street, Cardiff in 1911. Edward born Malta.
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Thanks for all this Hanes.
The seaman you found, that might be another man - I think the Peter I'm looking into was born c.1853 (per the 1891 census).
Annie Fiorentino? I wonder if Cardiff Fiorentinos are all related, or whether it was just a common Maltese name and Cardiff was a busy dock, so not related? What do you think?
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If you search the Maltese data base I posted for the surname Fiorentino (or similar - your opening post mentions the variations!!) it does not produce many results. This could be that the registers of the parishes they were most populous are the ones missing since the registers are described as "non exhaustive".
But the name is few and far between wherever you search.
Annie appears to have named her daughter after her grannie Mary Catherine whom she is with in 1901. Where does Mary Catherine Snr fit in - or not?
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As posted previously, Annie is the daughter of Salvo and Mary Catherine (nee Hyde) who at various times were connected to/running the same boarding house as we find Pietro and Rose linked to. This seems to suggest a fairly close connection between the men.
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Annie remarries in 1919 and in 1921 she and her new husband are running a boarding house full of Maltese men at 161 Bute St
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so let me check I've understood all this:
"Grandmother" Catherine Hyde (b.1838) > daughter Mary Catherine Hyde (b.1870) -- present together on 1881 and 1891 census.
In 1891 "grandmother" Catherine Hyde is living in the upper flt at 13 Crwys Road in Cardif, along with her other daughter Annie Samson and Annie's husband James Samson (a Maltese man). In the lower flat at 13 Crwys Road is Samuel Furinitine (spelled 'Fantin' on Ancestry), age 28, a Maltese fireman, wife Mary C. age 21 (bc. 1870 - so this must be Catherine Hyde's daughter Mary Catherine) plus their daughter Annie C., born 1885.
I think therefore that Samuel Furintine must be Salvo.
In 1901 "grandmother" Catherine aged 63 (b.1838) and grand-daughter Annie Furentine (age 15, bc.1886) are at Hodge Court along with Catherine's daughter Annie Sampson and granddaughter Annie Sampson (age 10).
Salvo and wife Mary Catherine also have a daughter Mary Melita who appears with mother Mary Catherine (married, not a widow) in 1901 at 151 Bute Street. Mary Melita marries a Maltese man named Williams in 1906, then a second marriage to a Maltese man named Depasquale in 1931. She has three children with Williams - Joseph Fred. , Mary Catherine and Frances Mary Williams.
Mary Catherine Fiorentino (Salvo's wife) remarries to Lawrence Mellia in 1905.
Have I understood this correctly?
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This from 1897 says that boarding house was kept by Rose Foronentroso - Rosina? Looks like various family members could be running it depending on who's available: https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3267745/3267748/57/151%2BOR%2BBute%2BOR%2BStreet
Sorry, I missed this before. I would say your reasoning must be correct about this. The articles about the murder at 151 Bute St place husband Peter Fiorentino at the boarding house at the same time.
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Anna Fiorintine born 1885, baptised 1886 in Roath - FindMyPast has this in their Wales Catholic Baptisms collection. Does anyone have FindMyPast to see the details please?
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Transcribed as "Fiorintone" but original reads "Fiorintine"
Anna Fiorintine, 40 Thesiger Street, Cathays, born 27 Oct 1885, bap 10 Aug 1886, dau of Samuelis & Mariae Catherine Hyde, place Roath Parish of St Peter.
Sponsors Paulus Aggoparai, Anna Hyde
There's a note in Latin added which quotes a date of 23 Oct 1919 - difficult to make out the words.
Added - note probably related to 1919 Dec Qtr marriage.
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Thanks, so Samuel is Salvo then
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1921 Rose Florentine a visitor in large household in Morlais Street, Cardiff. Widow, age 58 and 7 months. Maternity nurse. Born Cardiff. Could this be Rose Fiorentino do you think?
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FindMyPast Wales Catholic Baptisms
Born 11 Sep 1839, bap 6 Oct 1839 Henricus Fiorentine, son of Petrie and Rose Fiorentine (née Chandler), address 84 Coburn Street, place Roath Parish of St Peter. Sponsors Joannes Rizzo, Maria Mifsud?
Born 5 Mar 1905, bap 29 Mar 1905, Josephus Joannes, son of Petri and Rose Fiorentino (née Chandler), address 30 Windsor Road Cardiff, place St David Metropolitan Cathedral, Cardiff. Sponsor Minie? Chandler
Born 21 Oct 1891, bap 13 Aug 1895, dau of Samuelis and Marie Furintine (née Hayde), Melita Maria, address 124 Bute Road, place St David Metropolitan Cathedral, Cardiff. Sponsor Guililmo? Gibbons. The entry includes a note about a marriage with an Edgar Depasquale, St Cuthberts Church, 6 Oct 1947? Her death and Probate in 1975.
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That's fantastic, thank you
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so let me check I've understood all this:
"Grandmother" Catherine Hyde (b.1838) > daughter Mary Catherine Hyde (b.1870) -- present together on 1881 and 1891 census.
In 1891 "grandmother" Catherine Hyde is living in the upper flt at 13 Crwys Road in Cardif, along with her other daughter Annie Samson and Annie's husband James Samson (a Maltese man). In the lower flat at 13 Crwys Road is Samuel Furinitine (spelled 'Fantin' on Ancestry), age 28, a Maltese fireman, wife Mary C. age 21 (bc. 1870 - so this must be Catherine Hyde's daughter Mary Catherine) plus their daughter Annie C., born 1885.
I think therefore that Samuel Furintine must be Salvo.
In 1901 "grandmother" Catherine aged 63 (b.1838) and grand-daughter Annie Furentine (age 15, bc.1886) are at Hodge Court along with Catherine's daughter Annie Sampson and granddaughter Annie Sampson (age 10).
Salvo and wife Mary Catherine also have a daughter Mary Melita who appears with mother Mary Catherine (married, not a widow) in 1901 at 151 Bute Street. Mary Melita marries a Maltese man named Williams in 1906, then a second marriage to a Maltese man named Depasquale in 1931. She has three children with Williams - Joseph Fred. , Mary Catherine and Frances Mary Williams.
Mary Catherine Fiorentino (Salvo's wife) remarries to Lawrence Mellia in 1905.
Have I understood this correctly?
Yes - I hadn't found 1891 before as Ancestry has made a right mess of the family groups and surnames - they have Samuel, Mary & Annie as Fantin
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In case anyone else is interested in this family, I got the wedding cert. for Peter Fiorentino and Rose Chandler - married in registry office, 1885, fathers SALVO Fiorentione [sic] a mariner, and Henry Chandler, a mason. Ages 30 and 20, bachelor and spinster.
So if Salvo was Peter's father, it looks like Salvo (aka Samuel) Fiorentino married to Mary Cath. Hyde might have been Peter's brother, since both couples were managing the boarding house at 151 Bute St during the same period