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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: CarolineWebb on Saturday 14 June 25 17:23 BST (UK)
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I'm hoping someone can help before I pull all my hair out in frustration!
My 8 x great grandparents are Samuel Greenway and Alice Keeling. I've been trying to find their marriage and have found two entries - 1 for Aston and 1 for Nether Whitacre, both on the same date of 11th May 1682. Neither of them state that they are banns rather than a marriage. Anyone got any ideas?
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The typed copy on ancestry that's labelled St Peter and St Paul Aston has Samuel of White Acre and Alice of Kingsbury.
It was usual to marry in the bride's parish, but did they meet in the middle?
Did one family have a lot of money that would influence which church they married in?
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Was one of these places a chapelry within the other, being a large ancient parish? Sometimes events were copied into the register of the parent parish. Sometimes events were copied for other reasons, see
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=884815.msg7579080#msg7579080 reply #11
So it looks as though it's not a case of duplicating chapelry entries into the mother church register, but an example of events relating to parishioners being recorded even though they took place elsewhere. When I've come across it before it's tended to be from the more prominent families, but given the complicated boundaries it might have been more commonplace around Cumberworth.
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FindMyPast has an image of a marriage licence. Bit faint and difficult to read. Samuel Greenway of Whitacre and Alice Keeling of Kingsbury. It looks like the marriage could take place in either place. I think the date is 9th May although FindMyPast transcribes it as 3rd may
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FindMyPast has image of the register which records the marriage definitely on 11th - 2 days after licence. If you can access the image and go back a few pages to the front page of the book it says it is the register of the parish of Nether Whitacre.
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The Greenways look quite well off, judging by the will left when Samuel died in 1732,
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The typed copy on ancestry that's labelled St Peter and St Paul Aston has Samuel of White Acre and Alice of Kingsbury.
It was usual to marry in the bride's parish, but did they meet in the middle?
Did one family have a lot of money that would influence which church they married in?
Whitacre and Kingsbury are neighbouring villages. The Greenway family did have money by the looks of it so maybe that's why it was in Nether Whitacre and not Kingsbury.
I've never seen typed entries like the Aston one before which would suggest it is a copy for some reason
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The Greenways look quite well off, judging by the will left when Samuel died in 1732,
Yes, I think they were probably living in Halloughton Hall.
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Was one of these places a chapelry within the other, being a large ancient parish? Sometimes events were copied into the register of the parent parish. Sometimes events were copied for other reasons, see
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=884815.msg7579080#msg7579080 reply #11
So it looks as though it's not a case of duplicating chapelry entries into the mother church register, but an example of events relating to parishioners being recorded even though they took place elsewhere. When I've come across it before it's tended to be from the more prominent families, but given the complicated boundaries it might have been more commonplace around Cumberworth.
Maybe this is what happened. I've looked at the ancient parish of Aston and it did stretch as far as Water Orton in Warwickshire - very close to where I believe they got married. Thanks, not come across this before.
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FindMyPast has an image of a marriage licence. Bit faint and difficult to read. Samuel Greenway of Whitacre and Alice Keeling of Kingsbury. It looks like the marriage could take place in either place. I think the date is 9th May although FindMyPast transcribes it as 3rd may
Unfortunately I'm not a member of Find My Past so can't see those images but thank you for the info :-)
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The Greenways look quite well off, judging by the will left when Samuel died in 1732,
Was this on Ancestry or FindMyPast?
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Just in case you don't have this;
Burial;
23 Jan 1691/2, SS Peter and Paul, Kingsbury
ALICE wife of SAMUEL Greenway
FreeREG has missed the bapt of Alice 1788 to Samuel/Alice but has;
Keeling 1683/Samuel 1684/Robert 1686
(Samuel buried 1710 son of Samuel)
Did he remarry?
Burial;
25 Jun 1702 BARBARA, wife of SAM.Greenway
Children of Samuel/Barbara;
John 1696
William 1697
Elizabeth 1698
Martha 1699
Sarah 1701
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Quote;
Yes, I think they were probably living in Halloughton Hall.
From memory one of the bapts has abode as Halloughton
https://www.ourwarwickshire.org.uk/content/catalogue_wow/nether-whitacre-halloughton-hall
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married Barbara Orton, she died 1702 after having more children
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The Greenways look quite well off, judging by the will left when Samuel died in 1732,
Was this on Ancestry or FindMyPast?
on FindMyPast
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Good find LizzieL, thanks :)
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Just in case you don't have this;
Burial;
23 Jan 1691/2, SS Peter and Paul, Kingsbury
ALICE wife of SAMUEL Greenway
FreeREG has missed the bapt of Alice 1788 to Samuel/Alice but has;
Keeling 1683/Samuel 1684/Robert 1686
(Samuel buried 1710 son of Samuel)
Did he remarry?
Burial;
25 Jun 1702 BARBARA, wife of SAM.Greenway
Children of Samuel/Barbara;
John 1696
William 1697
Elizabeth 1698
Martha 1699
Sarah 1701
oh wow, a lot to unpack here! I already had Alice's burial, but didn't think about him remarrying. Certainly looks that way! I have found all the children listed above in the Kingsbury register. There is also a daughter Mary baptised with father Samuel but no mother listed (presuming Barbara before they were married maybe?) I haven't yet found Sam and Barbara's marriage though.
Then I found another baptism - not quite sure how to interpret this one?... Think Samuel was a busy man!
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The Greenways look quite well off, judging by the will left when Samuel died in 1732,
Was this on Ancestry or FindMyPast?
on FindMyPast
ok that's why I haven't seen it, thank you
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Yes looks like he was a busy man :)
I saw the illeg bapt also.
LizzieL gave you the second Marriage;
married Barbara Orton, she died 1702 after having more children
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8 Oct 1694 licence . Samuel Greenway wid of Kingsbury and Barbara Orton sp. Se is of Little (Parva) Packington. There's a Timothy Orton mentioned - farmer) - possibly bondsman. My Latin's a bit rusty
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Possible Burial;
5 Feb 1712/3, St Giles, Nether Whitacre, DORATHEY Brown
No age given.
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On the image of Mary's baptism, 7 Feb 1694/5 it has daughter of Samuel & ....... (leaving space to add mother's name). If Samuel and Barbara were married in Oct 1694, Mary would have been conceived before marriage.
As to the illeg birth - odd to call a daughter Samuel Greenway! Could there be more one Samuel Greenway of an age to father children, I seem to have found more SG burials than expected in the early 1700s.
And now the will
dated 30 Jan 1730, but could really be 1731.
Mentions:
Eldest son Keeling Greenway, and grandchildren, Anne, Jane, Alice and Keeling, children of said son Keeling
Son John
Son William
Daughter Martha Neal
Daughter Sarah Green
Daughter Mary Brown
Grandson Samuel Greenway
Grandson William Greenway (he doesn't say who the father(s) of these two are and they may not be brothers, but first cousins)
Grandsons John and Samuel Brooks (These two definitely brothers as he says if either dies before he attains age 16 his share goes to the surviving brother)
Residue goes to Son Robert Greenway who is also executor
ADDED
Just noticed that it says the Brookes brothers are the children of his deceased daughter Elizabeth Brookes.
Samuel's children with Alice seem to be Keeling 1683, Samuel 1684 (possible burial 1710), Robert 1686 and Alice 1688.
Alice might have married John Coton in 1707. and had five children. Pos burial for John in 1721 and for Alice (widdow) on March 10th 1726. But unless the Coton children all also died before the will was written, I'm surprised they're not mentioned like the Brookes boys
ANOTHER AMENDMENT
The daughter I listed as Sarah Green is Sarah Greenway (way is at beginning of next line), so not married in 1730, could be the sarah who married Joseph Capernhurst on 05 Mar 1735.
But who is Mary Brown, the only Mary Greenway marriage in right area at the right sort of time is to Moses Joben in 1716
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There's a Barbara and Timothy Orton (brother and sister) baptised at Orton on the Hill, about 8 miles from Kingsbury. Barbara's baptism 15 Mar 1667, so age would be in the right area. Parents Richard and Martha
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On the image of Mary's baptism, 7 Feb 1694/5 it has daughter of Samuel & ....... (leaving space to add mother's name). If Samuel and Barbara were married in Oct 1694, Mary would have been conceived before marriage.
As to the illeg birth - odd to call a daughter Samuel Greenway! Could there be more one Samuel Greenway of an age to father children, I seem to have found more SG burials than expected in the early 1700s.
And now the will
dated 30 Jan 1730, but could really be 1731.
Mentions:
Eldest son Keeling Greenway, and grandchildren, Anne, Jane, Alice and Keeling, children of said son Keeling
Son John
Son William
Daughter Martha Neal
Daughter Sarah Green
Daughter Mary Brown
Grandson Samuel Greenway
Grandson William Greenway (he doesn't say who the father(s) of these two are and they may not be brothers, but first cousins)
Grandsons John and Samuel Brooks (These two definitely brothers as he says if either dies before he attains age 16 his share goes to the surviving brother)
Residue goes to Son Robert Greenway who is also executor
ADDED
Just noticed that it says the Brookes brothers are the children of his deceased daughter Elizabeth Brookes.
Samuel's children with Alice seem to be Keeling 1683, Samuel 1684 (possible burial 1710), Robert 1686 and Alice 1688.
Alice might have married John Coton in 1707. and had five children. Pos burial for John in 1721 and for Alice (widdow) on March 10th 1726. But unless the Coton children all also died before the will was written, I'm surprised they're not mentioned like the Brookes boys
ANOTHER AMENDMENT
The daughter I listed as Sarah Green is Sarah Greenway (way is at beginning of next line), so not married in 1730, could be the sarah who married Joseph Capernhurst on 05 Mar 1735.
But who is Mary Brown, the only Mary Greenway marriage in right area at the right sort of time is to Moses Joben in 1716
Wow all this info is amazing, thank you so much! Could Mary Brown be the illegitimate child - it mentions a Dorothy Brown as the mother? Maybe the mention of Samuel in that entry is for the father's name?
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There's a Barbara and Timothy Orton (brother and sister) baptised at Orton on the Hill, about 8 miles from Kingsbury. Barbara's baptism 15 Mar 1667, so age would be in the right area. Parents Richard and Martha
Fabulous, I'll look into this too :-)
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8 Oct 1694 licence . Samuel Greenway wid of Kingsbury and Barbara Orton sp. Se is of Little (Parva) Packington. There's a Timothy Orton mentioned - farmer) - possibly bondsman. My Latin's a bit rusty
Where did you find this please?
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8 Oct 1694 licence . Samuel Greenway wid of Kingsbury and Barbara Orton sp. Se is of Little (Parva) Packington. There's a Timothy Orton mentioned - farmer) - possibly bondsman. My Latin's a bit rusty
Where did you find this please?
it was on FindMyPast . If you are in UK, a lot of libraries have subs to FindMyPast
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Great thank you, I've got a free trial for FindMyPast at the moment but nothing is showing up... Must try harder ;D