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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Dave70 on Saturday 14 June 25 10:15 BST (UK)

Title: Starting out
Post by: Dave70 on Saturday 14 June 25 10:15 BST (UK)
I am new to the board, Hi all.
So I have finally decided I want to try and learn about my paternal side of the family I have joined AncesteryDNA and am currently waiting for the dna kit. My problem is I am struggling to find information from my family, I only know a rough (possibly correct) name of my father - although I do know that he/or his father was a landlord of a pub in Leeds UK, are there any historical records that I could search of pub landlords?
The pub itself is no longer standing.
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Glen in Tinsel Kni on Wednesday 18 June 25 22:01 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat
I wouldn't be too concerned about licence transfers and publicans initially and concentrate on the DNA results to narrow down and hopefully identify your paternal side. If you haven't really seen or used DNA results before it can be a bit daunting, getting to grips with the basic techniques (such as grouping matches), will be far more useful at the outset.
There's a lot of information in the dna board here and on other forums as well as options for search angels through the DNA Family Finders UK group on fb but a good general understanding of the techniques is always useful and allows you to work on your tree yourself whenever you wish.
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Jackiemh on Wednesday 18 June 25 22:13 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootshcat.
Rootschatters are a helpful bunch and are willing to help with advice.
I hope that you are not relying on the dna kit to answer your questions. The paper trail is important as it gives you names and dates etc.
Good luck with your search.
Jackie
PS I took a dna test to see if it could help with some brickwalls - it didn't; so I got my children to do one, but the brickwalls are still standing.
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Biggles50 on Wednesday 18 June 25 22:31 BST (UK)
Welcome.

If you read through this thread it will help.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=863488.0

DNA is a mammoth subject in itself and often it can be a waiting game before brickwalls can be solved but alas not all can, that in itself is not a limitation of the DNA process it is the lack of applicable “relations” taking a DNA test themselves and posting useful information about themselves.

I took my DNA test in 2017 and had a closeish DNA match who shares 110cM with me and it was only in 2024 that another person who tested and was shared between the three of us that I could ID positively my 110cM match.

Additionally last year I met my Half Sister for the first time, DNA proved our relationship with each other.

Have patience and learn, it is fascinating.
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Dave70 on Thursday 19 June 25 06:21 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat
I wouldn't be too concerned about licence transfers and publicans initially and concentrate on the DNA results to narrow down and hopefully identify your paternal side. If you haven't really seen or used DNA results before it can be a bit daunting, getting to grips with the basic techniques (such as grouping matches), will be far more useful at the outset.
There's a lot of information in the dna board here and on other forums as well as options for search angels through the DNA Family Finders UK group on fb but a good general understanding of the techniques is always useful and allows you to work on your tree yourself whenever you wish.
Still waiting for the actual DNA kit to arrive, I am reading up on it quite a bit to try and get some understanding of the process. Thanks for the FB group suggestion.
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Dave70 on Thursday 19 June 25 06:23 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootshcat.
Rootschatters are a helpful bunch and are willing to help with advice.
I hope that you are not relying on the dna kit to answer your questions. The paper trail is important as it gives you names and dates etc.
Good luck with your search.
Jackie
PS I took a dna test to see if it could help with some brickwalls - it didn't; so I got my children to do one, but the brickwalls are still standing.
The problem I have is there is no paper trail, just a rough name, with a possible name of the dads father. So even starting out I am faced with a huge brickwall. :)
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Pheno on Thursday 19 June 25 07:48 BST (UK)
Hi, Is your father named on your full birth certificate.  If so that could start you off and you might be able to find his birth details.

Pheno
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Dave70 on Thursday 19 June 25 08:41 BST (UK)
Hi, Is your father named on your full birth certificate.  If so that could start you off and you might be able to find his birth details.

Pheno

Sadly no he's not on the birth certificate, the only info I have on him (which possibly isnt even the truth) is that he was called Stewart/ Stuart Fry and his dad (Bill Fry) was a pub landlord in the 1970s.
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Biggles50 on Thursday 19 June 25 10:42 BST (UK)
Taking a DNA yourself is the only way that you can be sure of your Parentage.

As you have an idea of who your Father was then a logical way forward would be to trace his lineage and try to identify if you have a half sibling or half siblings, as I stated in my last post, this has worked for me.

If you find any half siblings do approach them and eventually ask if they would be willing to take a DNA test.  If successful they are likely to share about 1800 cM with you.

If you cannot find any offspring of his or if they refuse to take a DNA test then look at his siblings and their children, or cousins of his who share the same Grandfather as you are likely to share.

Build a separate tree for your likely Father.

Birth Certificates can be falsified, my own has a Father listed but he was not my Biological Father.
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Dave70 on Thursday 19 June 25 14:50 BST (UK)
Taking a DNA yourself is the only way that you can be sure of your Parentage.

As you have an idea of who your Father was then a logical way forward would be to trace his lineage and try to identify if you have a half sibling or half siblings, as I stated in my last post, this has worked for me.

If you find any half siblings do approach them and eventually ask if they would be willing to take a DNA test.  If successful they are likely to share about 1800 cM with you.

If you cannot find any offspring of his or if they refuse to take a DNA test then look at his siblings and their children, or cousins of his who share the same Grandfather as you are likely to share.

Build a separate tree for your likely Father.

Birth Certificates can be falsified, my own has a Father listed but he was not my Biological Father.

I am having problems even finding him on ancestory.com The Names I have are Stewart Fry (possibly Stuart) and his father was called William (Bill) Fry. But I am unable to find a combination of them two people at all.
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: cockney rebel on Thursday 19 June 25 19:05 BST (UK)
Hi
If you know that the pub is no longer standing, do you perhaps know the name of the pub and/or its address or whatever district it was in Leeds ?
Rebel
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Glen in Tinsel Kni on Thursday 19 June 25 19:46 BST (UK)
There's no father named on my birth certificate, both my parents and one grandparent have fathers listed on their certs but none are the biological father. I only know because of DNA. I don't follow surnames from paperwork, rumours or other trees.
I use dna and some traditional tree building techniques to identify target testers, to pick out the full and half relatives and prove whether paperwork is useful or useless.
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Dave70 on Thursday 19 June 25 19:58 BST (UK)
Hi
If you know that the pub is no longer standing, do you perhaps know the name of the pub and/or its address or whatever district it was in Leeds ?
Rebel
Yeah its this one:- https://www.closedpubs.co.uk/yorkshire/leeds_ls2_yorkshirehussar.html

Originally it was called the Yorkshire Hussar, then the Tam O'Shanter and Finally Hoagys Bar before it closed in 2001?
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Dave70 on Thursday 19 June 25 19:59 BST (UK)
There's no father named on my birth certificate, both my parents and one grandparent have fathers listed on their certs but none are the biological father. I only know because of DNA. I don't follow surnames from paperwork, rumours or other trees.
I use dna and some traditional tree building techniques to identify target testers, to pick out the full and half relatives and prove whether paperwork is useful or useless.

Thats encouraging to know it could be possible then, Im a complete novice when it comes to tree building though, so its all a learning curve ;p
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Glen in Tinsel Kni on Thursday 19 June 25 20:47 BST (UK)
If the results on day one are inconclusive that isn't to say it will always be that way as thousands of tests are taken everyday and an important/significant match can appear at any time. It's often a case of being patient and trying to find who is a good candidate for a target test but time will tell. We all start as novices so you're not alone in that regard, for me personally knowing how to build a tree and analyse my results is important as I like to do as much as I can myself though again it takes time to learn the ins and outs of family history.
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Biggles50 on Thursday 19 June 25 22:13 BST (UK)
Read this.

https://www.pubhistorysociety.co.uk/PDF-Dowloads/ancestors.pdf

Any Publican has to be Licensed and there should be records in the County Archives, where they may or may not be digitised and available online.

Archives in Yorkshire are split up in different locations and West Yorkshire Archive Services hold the records for Leeds.  Do be advised the websites of many Archives are very difficult to navigate and can return zero results when they are actually records existing.

Alas the only way may be a personal visit or if that is not possible a paid for search.

I have just looked up Stuart Fry on Newspapers in Find My Past and nothing, there is the British Newspaper Archive that may have online records for the Fry’s but I do not subscribe to it.
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: Spelk on Friday 20 June 25 13:33 BST (UK)
Do not just focus on your dad’s side. You need to trace your mother’s family and identify as many cousins, second and third cousins as you can.
Thus when you get DNA matches in Ancstry, MyHeritage etc you can identify those who are on you mothers side. Those who are not on your mams side may be on your dad’s.
DNA solved one unknown for me and threw up an unknown relative who had been adopted.
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 20 June 25 14:19 BST (UK)
The brewery might have something in their archives
This link says it was once a Samuel Webster pub, but haven't verified it

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tomackroyd/4692922753

Seems to have slimmed down somewhat from the picture on the closed pubs site!
Title: Re: Starting out
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 20 June 25 14:32 BST (UK)
If you're on Facebook, there is a FB page for lostleedspubs. I searched on Yorkshire Hussar and a post came up with quite a lot of comments, some people mention being there in the late 60s and 70s. Maybe they might have known your father / grandfather.