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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Ranolki on Friday 13 June 25 13:59 BST (UK)
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Back in March I asked about Christiana Whitfield (and the many surnames she used) who had apparently spent a year in Tasmania around 1909/1910 before heading off to Sea Lake in Victoria, where she became Christiana Maydwell. The previous topic is under "Hiding in Tasmania"
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I think the general consensus was that there really wasn't anything to suggest she actually went to Tasmania (where they supposedly took a property in New Norfolk which was damaged by fire). However since then I've looked closely at her time in Sea Lake and the death of her daughter, Christina, by suicide. Christina (known as Cissie) had taken the name Vernon and it had been assumed this was just an off the cuff invention to work anonymously in Melbourne.
However it's since been suggested Vernon was the pseudonym the family had used in Tasmania (I had originally understood it was North) and after another search I have turned up this on this site https://thelist.tas.gov.au. I'm thinking it might be records of them paying rent for a property. The name is Christina rather than Christiana but Christina was a minor at this point so I think it's more likely to be referring to Christiana if this relates to some sort of contract.
I'm assuming this refers to rents and the two names are the landlords. Has anyone else seen records like these and knows if I'm interpreting that correctly? Does anyone know if I could establish more or less where the property was situated?
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I've looked further into this and now believe these relate to Isaiah Oldbury and Christiana I'Anson buying a property in Forcett (1909) of 200 acres under the false names of John and Christina Vernon, then selling 50 acres the following year. I know that they left Tasmania in 1910. Christiana travelled to Sea Lake in Victoria without Isaiah knowing where she had gone and he eventually returned to his farm in New Zealand. On that basis they could probably not have sold the remaining 150 acres and I assume it would eventually have reverted to the Crown?
The story was that their property in Tasmania burned down but I haven't found anything about that specifically. It could have been a useful story - they were never reticent about making things up to fit their agendas!
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DIVORCE SUIT.
Otago Daily Times, Issue 14626, 11 September 1909, Page 7
Details of Christina L Anson and Isaiah Oldbury eloping to NZ c 1907-9 with her chn.
NZ papers available on Papers Past NZ
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Hi aahume
Just mentioning that this "interesting" ;) couple Oldbury and Ianson, have been the subject of previous searches on Rootschat.
Here are a couple of threads that delve into their doings.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=888957.msg7624531#msg7624531
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708766.0
Sue
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Yes, "interesting" is a good word for them... I've seen the previous threads and I think the story is gradually being unravelled but as soon as one knot is teased apart a bigger one appears!
There is some doubt still that they were using the names John and Christiana Vernon but I've done a timeline of the divorce petitions, disposal of NZ property, purchases in Tasmania etc and it all ties in beautifully, other than it seems they bought 200 acres in Feb 1909 and I can only find the sale of 50 acres the following year. By that time Isaiah was described as "overseas" - but this was a ploy they had used before too.
Added to that, Christiana's daughter Christina took the name Christina Vernon when she went off to work in Melbourne before committing suicide. Strangely the death certificate reported her age as 46 whereas she was 20 (it was corrected for the inquest) which just happens to have been her mother's age. I suspect she may have taken ID used by her mother in Tasmania and used it to get work.
One other thing that surprised me was the willingness to declare her death as suicide. She left no note and the coroner decided, with no evidence really, that she suffered with headaches and this led to mental derangement...
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Hi Ranolki, Your attachment shows Land Titles of three properties, two of 200 acres and the third of 50 acres. Email the Tasmanian Land Titles for copies of each title. Land Titles after 1870 are not free
Regards
clancam37
Back in March I asked about Christiana Whitfield (and the many surnames she used) who had apparently spent a year in Tasmania around 1909/1910 before heading off to Sea Lake in Victoria, where she became Christiana Maydwell. The previous topic is under "Hiding in Tasmania"
.
I think the general consensus was that there really wasn't anything to suggest she actually went to Tasmania (where they supposedly took a property in New Norfolk which was damaged by fire). However since then I've looked closely at her time in Sea Lake and the death of her daughter, Christina, by suicide. Christina (known as Cissie) had taken the name Vernon and it had been assumed this was just an off the cuff invention to work anonymously in Melbourne.
However it's since been suggested Vernon was the pseudonym the family had used in Tasmania (I had originally understood it was North) and after another search I have turned up this on this site https://thelist.tas.gov.au. I'm thinking it might be records of them paying rent for a property. The name is Christina rather than Christiana but Christina was a minor at this point so I think it's more likely to be referring to Christiana if this relates to some sort of contract.
I'm assuming this refers to rents and the two names are the landlords. Has anyone else seen records like these and knows if I'm interpreting that correctly? Does anyone know if I could establish more or less where the property was situated?
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Thank you.I've discovered more about those contracts via Tasmanian records, but it still leaves a mystery...
I've copied the contracts but they are still too large to post here. If anyone would like to see, they are free to access on thelist.tas.gov.au using the reference numbers on that schedule. The first contract refers to the transfer of a total of 200 acres (in three parcels of 100 acres and two of 50 each) to John and Christiana Vernon in 1909, various instructions about paying off an existing mortgage and the cost (which, after tortuous calculations between some figures in shillings and others in pounds) show they paid £315. The second entry on that schedule seems to be a typo as the other two documents just mention a piece of the original land, total size 50 acres. This was transferred for a nominal 5 shillings to each of them (and noting that by now John Vernon is "overseas"). No mention is made of the remaining 150 acres and I can see nothing to tell me what happened to it later.
I can find nothing to suggest people named John and Christina Vernon actually existed. I've also done a timeline merging what I know Isiaiah and Christiana did with the dates of these land purchases. They fit beautifully which is another pointer to what probably happened.
So now (this seems to be the never ending story...)
1. If there really were people named John and Christina Vernon, where did they come from and what happened to them? They are supposedly married but there is no evidence of this anywhere on
Ancestry.com or FamilySearch
2. What happened to the other 150 acres? Checking laws at that time it seems John Vernon could have sold the 150 acres without input from Christina as it was almost certainly his own money that bought it. So I'm wondering if this was just left to revert to the Crown?
3. This may answer why Christiana's daughter adopted the name Vernon when she ran away to Melbourne in 1913 before ultimately committed suicide
4. Is this the site of the mysterious fire alluded to in the piece written by Helen Maydwell, rather than the New Norfolk fire she mentioned (I can't find evidence of that anywhere). Something obviously chased them out of Tasmania but at the moment I can only imagine it was their own relationship breakdown. Certainly they left Tasmania separately and Isaiah was "overseas" (ie I know Isaiah was in Melbourne by then) before Christiana left.
5. Should there be some sort of records relating to their stay in Forcett - Local taxes paid etc?
6. This couple seemed to be able to wander around changing their surname at will, things were so different at the beginning of the 20th century... I know Christiana started life as Whitfield, was then I'Anson through marriage, reverted to Whitfield for her passage to NZ, then used Isaiah's surname of Oldbury, seemingly used North for a short period in Tasmania and then seems to have become Christina Vernon and finally becoming Christiana Maydwell. Isaiah stuck with Oldbury for quite a while but once the decree absolute was issued awarding William I'Anson £1500 he seems to have followed Christiana's path. Obviously he didn't take on the Maydell name as they had parted ways by then. He did finally return to the UK as John Wilson and was so successful at hiding away that his death certificate was issued in that name, his real identity only coming out when his will was discovered in his real name.
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Here's part of the historic deed 12_2480 that describes the 50 acres that were sold bordering land owned by Daniel Lane and John Bingham and Gilling Brook (Creek) The earlier deeds also spoke of the other 150 acres bordering land owned by Gangell, Peter Joysey (Joicey on the map)
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On the County land grant map layer on thelist map I've outlined in red the likely 200 acres that the Vernon's purchased
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There was a Jno. Vernon and a Mrs John Vernon in the Tasmanian Post Office Directories who lived at 52 High Street, Sandy Bay recorded through 1900-1909 They don't appear to have anything to do with the Vernons from Forcett based on this memorial notice from 1918 - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11387775?searchTerm=52%20high%20street%2C%20sandy%20bay
I can't find any other references to John and Christina Vernon in Tasmania apart from the land documents? So their footprint must have been miniscule in the big scheme of things?
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https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10052016#
The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860 - 1954) Tue 1 Feb 1910
Page 2
COUNTRY NEWS.
FORCETT.
A somewhat destructive fire has taken
place at Ringwood, the residence of Mr.
Vernon. The stable and adjacent sheds
were burnt to the ground, together with
a quantity of hay contained therein.
Mr. Vernon had been burning off some
scrub, and it is surmised that, the day
being hot and very windy, a piece of
burning bark was blown on to the roof
of a shed, and so started the fire.
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https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10053064?searchTerm=%22ringwood%22%20%22forcett%22%20%22vernon%22#
The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860 - 1954) Fri 11 Feb 1910
Page 8
Advertising
FARM AT FORCETT.
A. G. WEBSTER AND SON
Have received instructions from Mr.
Jno. Vernon to offer by auction, at their
Rooms, Liverpool-street, on above date,
at 12 o'clock, noon,
HIS VERY DESIRABLE FARM,
RINGWOOD, situated at Forcett,
and containing 230 acres, 160 acree of
winch are cultivation, the balance being
good grazing Land.
The property is well fenced, and is one
of the best watered farms in-the district.
The fences are good (many of them Trew),
and the soil is of a good chocolate and
black loam.
The improvements consist of a very
comfortable Stone House, which has
been recently renovated at considerable
expense, ½ acre orchard, and vegetable
garden.
Ringwood is situated 1 mile from For-
cett Post Office and School, 3 miles from
Lewisham wharf, and 5 miles from
Sorell.
The present owner is shortly returning
to England, and intends to SELL.
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https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10054798?searchTerm=%22ringwood%22%20%22forcett%22%20%22mrs.%20vernon%22#
The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860 - 1954) Tue 1 Mar 1910
Page 8
Advertising
WEDNESDAY, March 2, 1910.
CLEARING SALE AT FORCETT.
ROBERTS AND CO. LIMITED
Have been instructed by Mrs. J. Vernon
to sell on the property. RINGWOOD,
FORCETT, on WEDNESDAY, March
2, at 12 o'clock,
THE FOLLOWING STOCK, IMPLE-
MEN'S, AND FURNITURE:
75 4 and 6-TOOTH EWES AND
LAMBS
23 Weathers
Cow in milk
Draught horse Clyde 7yrs., by Bet-
ter Times
Draught horse Tom, 3yrs., by Sanlis-
bury Prince
Half-bred draught mare, Jess, 4yrs.
1 Half-bred mare, rising 3yrs., by
Young Charmer. thoroughly
broken to harness
1 Chestnut filly, by Young Charmer
All these horses can be highly recommended.
Quantity of young poultry, including a
turkeys, geese, ducks, and fowls.
Spring dray, spring-tooth harrows,
swingle trees d.f. plough, plough har-
ness, etc., etc. .
Also,
STACK OF HAY, about 8 tons
Quantity of potatoes
HOUSEHOLD FURNITURE, comprising
the contents of PEA WING and DINING
ROOMS, 4 bedrooms, and kitchen
and scullery. Most of the furniture is
nearly new, and is only being sold owing
to Mrs. Vernon's intended departure for
England.
LUNCHEON PROVIDED.
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Oh that is amazing, thanks so much for that research! I can't believe that information is there, you must have super-sleuthing skills, both of you! That really does look as if that's them too. It still makes me think this is really Isaiah and Christiana, incognito. There is so much there it's going to take me a while to digest but the fire I suspected had been a problem is mentioned and then the offer for sale. I wonder if it actually ALL sold rather than the 50 acres I can find a contract for? They certainly weren't returning to England, Isaiah didn't want to show his face there as he had Christiana's ex-husband chasing him for huge divorce settlement...
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I've had chance to look at this info now. It's so helpful. But, as usual, one answer leads to another dozen questions!
It's narrowed the timescales right down so I can now look at passenger lists and try to find them heading off to Melbourne, Isaiah just before 2 March 1910 and Christiana just afterwards. I think I need to really search those land registry archives too, to see what happened to the farm. I think the documents for the 50 acres may be the clue, if they sold those acres for a nominal five shillings then there is every chance the same person bought the rest. I would imagine that if she was selling up the stock and implements on 2 March then the farm must have sold at the 11 February auction. The sale contract was dated April 1910, which would all fit...
The fire wasn't a huge affair and I don't think that would have made them suddenly decide to sell up, and the time scale between the fire and the auction is probably too tight anyway - it was already being planned. So there's another mystery. I know they didn't go back to the UK either, despite what the sales info says.
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On your other thread you said that Isaiah went back to his farm in NZ after leaving Tasmania. If that's correct, do you know which alias did he go by?
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One more comment. It seems the contract numbered 12/2454 does actually show the disposal of the original 200 acres so at least we have one question answered. The copy quality is really poor for that one but going through it slowly gives the information.
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PatLac, he used his real surname of Oldbury according to the Electoral Roll/Census info in 1911. That was the name he had used when he bought the farm, ie before he realised that William I'Anson intended to sue him for damages. I'm now wondering what spurred them on to leave Tasmania after only being there for a year and investing in a big property. I'm sure it wasn't the fire, that was relatively minor...
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I have no idea how the electoral enrollment worked/works in Australia, but could he had been enrolled before he went to England?
I thought this was him going to London in 1910... I've noticed that he is mentioned in the newspaper ads in February but in March they only mentioned Mrs. Vernon.
WILSON JOHN MR 70 PERICLES II 1910 MAR LONDON VIA PORTS
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/29A1EC23-F7F0-11E9-AE98-3D2032EF8048?image=131
And returning?
WILSON JOHN 71 1911 APR PERSIC MORGAN W F
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/42DD3C17-F96C-11E9-AE98-9587A208E708?image=255
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Could not find them in early Tasmanian Electoral Rolls. Women had the vote from 1903 in Australia. No deaths recorded --- still looking for deaths.
Regards
clancam37
I have no idea how the electoral enrollment worked/works in Australia, but could he had been enrolled before he went to England?
I thought this was him going to London in 1910... I've noticed that he is mentioned in the newspaper ads in February but in March they only mentioned Mrs. Vernon.
WILSON JOHN MR 70 PERICLES II 1910 MAR LONDON VIA PORTS
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/29A1EC23-F7F0-11E9-AE98-3D2032EF8048?image=131
And returning?
WILSON JOHN 71 1911 APR PERSIC MORGAN W F
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/42DD3C17-F96C-11E9-AE98-9587A208E708?image=255
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Now there's an interesting thought! A whole new set of ideas... I had just mentioned to a co-researcher almost as a joke "What if they really were going back to England, just like they said in the contracts and sale info?"
There was obviously some reason why they sold up in Tasmania after only being there for around a year and investing in that farm. The fire was almost certainly too minor to make them want to leave. I know Isaiah was supposed to meet Christiana as she arrived from Tasmania and her youngest son Basil said years later that they slipped down the crew gangway to avoid him but that Basil saw him waiting on the dock. It could be possible that they had a passage booked back to England and she decided this was a perfect time to strike out on her own. On that basis he could have carried on with his planned trip but come back later. I'll have to look at the timings and see what went on at Empire Bridge Farm. I haven't looked hard yet for sale details. He DID try to sell it before they went to Tasmania but as far as I know it didn't meet reserve (and that would fit with him still being there in 1911).
To be honest there was no reason why they would go to Melbourne anyway, other than to take the ship back to England. Once she didn't go, was that the point she decided to strike out on her own to Sea Lake? It just gets more and more complex. Thanks for the wonderful research!
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Do you know if he paid William I'Anson the £1,500?
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No the money was never paid over. I believe this is why isaiah was still using an alias right up until the time he died.
£1500 at that time would have been a substantial sum for William I'Anson but he went on to live a modest life, retiring from the pub trade early. He appears in the 1911 and 1921 census but then disappears. I have not been any details of his death. Several William I'Ansons who died were born around the same time as him but I've followed each one and none of them match.
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Just a cross reference that Ringwood was the right property. In 1912 the Beckitt’s announced the birth of a son at Ringwood - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10257422?searchTerm=Ringwood%2C%20Forcett The mother was Martha Francesca - https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fNAME_INDEXES$002f0$002fNAME_INDEXES:2107102/ada?qu=Beckitt&qf=NI_INDEX%09Record+type%09Births%09Births&qf=PUBDATE%09Year%091910-1921%091910-1921&d=ent%3A%2F%2FNAME_INDEXES%2F0%2FNAME_INDEXES%3A2107102%7ENAME_INDEXES%7E0&h=8 and her name is all over the lands titles deeds?
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PatLac I've looked more closely at those steamship records. I'm not sure how they work but does the fact his name was crossed through on the return journey mean he didn't actually sail, or does that signify something else? I don't have his actual dob so the ages (70 and 71) can't really be used to verify anything too closely at the moment. He was baptised on 28 June 1840 and the 1841 census said he was one year old so I'm thinking he was born in May or June 1840...
The return sailing seems to show that John Wilson disembarked in Adelaide which wouldn't really fit with Isaiah either, and as I believe he had nowhere particular to go in Australia (ie he had no idea where Christiana had gone so searching for her would be pointless...) he would probably have done what they did first time and sailed directly to NZ. Also the first journey seems to suggest that John Wilson travelled Third Class, again not something I would expect as they used Cabin class when they first sailed.
So at the moment the jury is definitely out as to whether this is actually Isaiah. Also he was so paranoid about avoiding paying up that £1500 I would be surprised if he put himself in a position to be traced in the UK, even using a fake name. I still have quite a few thoughts to follow through and I'm also hoping to hear from Christiana's great grandson soon as he may have found some more information in his mother's recollections. I think initially I need to follow through the idea of whether or not you would need to be physically present on a certain date to fill in the Electoral Roll paperwork in New Zealand and then look for sales details for Empire Bridge Farm. I'm really bemused about why someone would buy Ringwood, furnish and equip the house and farm etc and then leave after just over a year later. There are still so many oddities in the whole story...
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His DOB is definitely May or June 1840, given that there are only 3 registered births:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1840 (>99%)
Oldbury Isaiah W Bromwich 18 543
Births Jun 1862 (>99%)
OLDBURY Isaiah West Bromwich 6b 694
Births Jun 1877 (>99%)
OLDBURY Isaiah W. Bromwich 6b 922
I have noticed that his name is crossed but I don't know what it means. Third class could have been one way of avoiding being seen by any acquaintances?
I think he wouldn't publish a lie in the sales ads given that his neighbours (and potential buyers) would know that he was going back to England.
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..... I know that they left Tasmania in 1910. Christiana travelled to Sea Lake in Victoria without Isaiah knowing where she had gone and he eventually returned to his farm in New Zealand.
* What evidence do you have that Isaiah OLDBURY returned to NZ, and specifically to his farm, after 1910 ?
Sale of Isaiah OLDBURY's property in New Zealand > acreage at Chaney's ("Empire Bridge") and a property at Tuam Street, Christchurch, took place in March, 1909.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TS19090306.2.64
..... in New Zealand and then look for sales details for Empire Bridge Farm.
The following appears to be the first of the "for sale" notices >
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT19080529.2.93.1
... with further advertisments appearing from November 1908 ...
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT19081104.2.78.4
..... I think initially I need to follow through the idea of whether or not you would need to be physically present on a certain date to fill in the Electoral Roll paperwork in New Zealand ....
NZ Electoral Rolls :
Isaiah OLDBURY's first appearance on an electoral roll on NZ was > on the "Kaiapoi *Supplementary roll (Canterbury)" of 1908 : [* This was a roll made up of persons who'd not enrolled in time to be included in the Main Kaiapoi roll, before it went to print. ]
It does not necessarily follow that just because Isaiah OLDBURY's name appears on the 1911 roll at same place, that he was actually residing in New Zealand. Often names were carried over to a later roll for a variety of reasons (and even deceased persons might be included).
One should therefore not place too much reliance of these rolls being absolutely correct - they're a useful tool but it's wise that they are used in conjuction with other information. They are also NOT a census substitute (NZ does not have published census records available.)
~ Lu
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Thank you Lucy2, that's an interesting thought you've put forward. I think we were relying totally on that Electoral Roll information and the fact we found no details of an actual sale. I'm chatting with someone else who has looked at this before to see what else we have so I'll report back! I've started looking at the records in Archives New Zealand but haven't come up with anything yet. The Tasmanian records were so helpful so I'm hoping I can find something eventually.
According to a copy of his Probate, his address was shown as his last one ie Torrington Place, London BUT it also refers to him as late of 18 Napier St Fitzroy, Victoria. Trove shows various people living at that address in the period 1910 to 1919 but not him in any of the names I know. I've asked to see a copy of his actual Will in case that tells me more about why that is mentioned. Also the date of the Will might be interesting. But it must have been written after he arrived in the UK in 1919. He named an executor, Robert McCutcheon Edgar, who I believe was still in Australia which is interesting, although he declined to act.
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There was a Robert McCutcheon Edgar at 10 High street Kew between 1915 and 1920 (Sands & McDougall's) who is mentioned on Trove
The Ballarat Star (Vic. : 1865 - 1924) Wed 21 Jun 1922
Page 6
NEW JUSTICES.
NEW JUSTICES.
Melbourne, Tuesday.
The Executive Council to-day approved
of the appointment of the following jus
tices: —George Robinson, Jnr., Warrackna
beal, Northern bailiwick; Charles Cooper
Hunt, Stawel), Western bailiwick; and Ro
bert McCutcheon Edgar, Kew...
The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957) Thu 7 Jun 1956
Page 20
Family Notices
EDGAR - On June 6, Isabella
Mary, beloved wife of the late
Robert Mccutcheon Edgar, loving
mother of Frank (Second A.I.F.,
deceased) Noel, and Isobel (Mrs.
E. L. Weller).
Death Record:
EDGAR
Robert McCutcheon
Death
Eleanor
FINLAY
EDGAR Robert
BANGOR IRELAND
KEW
80
1941
10114/1941
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I’ve now seen the actual Will. It was written in August 1918 in Melbourne. He gave his real name, then added sometimes known as John Wilson and his address as 18 Napier Street, Fitzroy. It was very basic, leaving his estate to his estranged wife. She eventually acted as executor. He left £160 gross.
I’m now seeing what I can find for the sale of Empire Bridge Farm. Unfortunately if that really was him on that short trip back to England he managed to miss the census both there and Australia for 1911.
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I have noticed that the newspapers' articles on Mrs. Maydwell have a gap between 1919 and 1921 and I wonder if this couple could be Christiana and Isaiah having a final fling? I don't think lying about age was an issue for them.
Victoria - Outwards passenger lists (1852-1923)
WILSON J MR 72 WESTRALIA 1920 NOV BLUFF 1
WILSON J MRS 55 WESTRALIA 1920 NOV BLUFF 1
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/29C775A0-F7F0-11E9-AE98-F9816B9D592D?image=335
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Why is Christiana's Coffee Palace, Sea Lake, in the name of Mrs. E. Maydwell in 1920 (Sands and McDougall's)? A mistake or...?
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Now there's an interesting thought! A whole new set of ideas... I had just mentioned to a co-researcher almost as a joke "What if they really were going back to England, just like they said in the contracts and sale info?"
There was obviously some reason why they sold up in Tasmania after only being there for around a year and investing in that farm. The fire was almost certainly too minor to make them want to leave. I know Isaiah was supposed to meet Christiana as she arrived from Tasmania and her youngest son Basil said years later that they slipped down the crew gangway to avoid him but that Basil saw him waiting on the dock. It could be possible that they had a passage booked back to England and she decided this was a perfect time to strike out on her own. On that basis he could have carried on with his planned trip but come back later. I'll have to look at the timings and see what went on at Empire Bridge Farm. I haven't looked hard yet for sale details. He DID try to sell it before they went to Tasmania but as far as I know it didn't meet reserve (and that would fit with him still being there in 1911).
To be honest there was no reason why they would go to Melbourne anyway, other than to take the ship back to England. Once she didn't go, was that the point she decided to strike out on her own to Sea Lake? It just gets more and more complex. Thanks for the wonderful research!
Are you saying that Christiana and Basil went to Melbourne in 1910? Have you managed to locate them in the passenger lists?
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Isaiah arrived back in the UK in April 1919 on the Osterley (probably as soon as he could after WWl ended) and by then he was 78/79 years old. Christiana was born in 1868 so would have been 52 in 1920. I don't think she was aware of the Wilson name and had deliberately distanced herself from Isaiah when she left Tasmania in 1910. I would be very surprised if she even had a way of contacting him (and vice versa).
I think Mrs E Maydwell must have been a typo. Maydwell was a name Christiana came up with herself so other than her own children (none with a E...) there would have been no one else
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PatLac, I haven't found them on any ships' info. At the moment I would love to find anything showing them going from Christchurch (or Lyttleton) to Tasmania in 1908/9 and then Isaiah going to Melbourne in 1910, followed shortly afterward by Christiana and her children on the same route. At the time those children would have been Anthony, William, Christina and Basil. After 1908/9 they were being cagey with names so the first trip might be under Whitfield, North or Vernon (anything else I suppose). Isaiah's trip to Melbourne may have still been under Vernon and possibly Christiana's too, although she took on Maydwell as soon as she arrived in Sea Lake.
Some of the information we are using came from Helen Maydwell, Christiana's daughter in law. It was written many years later so a few bits in her recollections are sometimes muddled. But I believe Basil will have had input into that too so generally speaking it's accurate. They obviously had no idea what Isaiah was up to after he arrived in Melbourne...
Those passenger details are a few of the bits I need to find, along with actual sales info on Empire Bridge Farm (I have the adverts of the auction but no firm sale details or contracts etc). I believe her coffee palace was always a rental.
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Thanks, Ranolki.
I think they defininitely went to Melbourne in 1910 (after the furniture sale) given that Mrs. Maydwell's coffee palace has been mentioned on 4 January 1911
Bendigo Advertiser (Vic. : 1855 - 1918) Fri 6 Jan 1911
Page 4
OUR COUNTRY SERVICE.
SEA LAKE, 4th January.
Last night Mounted-constable Morey, on
the eve of his departure for Ballarat, was
entertained by the townspeople in Mrs.
Maydwell's coffee palace.
In 1910 the coffee palace belonged to "Mrs. Clarence Mudge, proprietress", as can be seen on Sands& Mc's and I think Christiana bought the place, otherwise why would they call it "Mrs. Maydwell's buildings"?
Sea Lake Times and Berriwillock Advertiser (Vic. : 1914 - 1918) Sat 14 Nov 1914
Page 5
Advertising
WE desire to notify our clients that
we have opened TEMPORARY
OFFICES at Mrs MAYDWELL'S
BUILDINGS, Sea Lake.
THOMAS, MORROW AND CO.,
Auctioneers,Sea Lake and Branches.
Mount Wycheproof Ensign and East Wimmera Advocate (Vic. : 1914 - 1918) Fri 10 Jul 1914
Page 5
Advertising
Public Notices.
SHOP to Let, best position Sea Lake
two large windows, newly reno
vated, suit any business; good cellar,
office, and store-room if desired. MRS
MAYDWELL, Commercial Coffee Palace,
Sea Lake.
-
Regarding the passenger lists I'm going through them now and I think it's likely that they didn't go all together to avoid being caught, and probably under different names, but Basil would be hard to disguise given his age, unless they lied big time about it as well :o
-
PatLac, thanks so much for looking at this, you are coming up with far better info than I can find!
I have just received a fantastic book called "Then Awake Sea Lake" - the latest update from April 2022. To an extent it's an update on an original book from 1911 called The Progress of Sea Lake which was itself updated in around 1951 but with, it seems, a lot more up-to-date information. There are lots of photos and lots of references to Mrs Maydwell. It's a huge book and I haven't really had chance to look at it properly yet though.
I've been looking at the situation with Electoral Roll entries and it seems it was a definite "thing" around 1911 in New Zealand so it obviously can't be relied upon as proof Isaiah had gone back there. It wouldn't surprise me though that once Christiana abandoned him at the dock in Melbourne that he might have decided to go back to England, almost on the spur of the moment. He had his money from Ringwood, potentially had sold Empire Bridge Farm and would have had no ties at that point. Why he would have gone back to Australia again is interesting though... But he was obviously there in 1918 and finally left in 1919. So I suppose I have to wonder what he was doing in that period. Might be hard if he was using John Wilson as a name though.
He had run a very large business manufacturing axles back in the UK so I suppose a look around a few business directories might tell me something. He described himself as a retired blacksmith on the 1921 census and I think that was his first trade. Quite heavy work to take up again in his seventies though and I think he had more than enough money not to need to get into manual labour. Management might be another thing though. I think he was also a freemason which might give me some pointers...
-
How exciting ;D
-
Isaiah arrived back in the UK in April 1919 on the Osterley (probably as soon as he could after WWl ended) and by then he was 78/79 years old. Christiana was born in 1868 so would have been 52 in 1920. I don't think she was aware of the Wilson name and had deliberately distanced herself from Isaiah when she left Tasmania in 1910. I would be very surprised if she even had a way of contacting him (and vice versa).
I think Mrs E Maydwell must have been a typo. Maydwell was a name Christiana came up with herself so other than her own children (none with a E...) there would have been no one else
I haven't been able to find anyone over 70 amongst the passengers on the Osterley. Under which alias did he travel?
-
Do you have access to FindMyPast?
I wonder if they went to Durban (Port Natal, South Africa) in 1905 before heading to NZ?
-
Riverina Recorder (Balranald, Moulamein, NSW : 1887 - 1944) Wed 29 Jun 1910
Page 1
"DEAD MAN" IN COURT.
The Sea Lake Coffee Palace has
been sold for £2,475 to a Melbourne
buyer.
The Bendigo Independent (Vic. : 1891 - 1918) Tue 28 Jun 1910
Page 2
AUCTIONS TO COME.
AUCTIONS TO COME.
PROPERTY AND CLEARING SALES.
As advertised in The Bendigo Indepen
dent:—
Wednesday, June 28, at Sea Lake, by
Messrs. Thomas Morrow and Co. — Important
sale of valuable property, viz., the Sea Lake
Coffee Palace.
The Bendigo Independent (Vic. : 1891 - 1918) Sat 25 Jun 1910
Page 12
Advertising
SEA LAKE COFFEE PALACE.
THOMAS MORROW and CO., under in-
structions from the vendor, Mrs. Lugg,
will sell by public auction, on Wednesday,
29th June, this most, desirable property,
situate in the very centre of the town, hav
ing a frontage of 84 feet to Best street by
a depth of over 300 feet. Part of the pre
mises are let to good tenants at a weekly
rental of £4 2s 6d. 4 blocks, the property
adjoining, belonging to the estate of the
Mrs. Garden, Gold by auction last Wed
nesday up to £12 10s per foot.
The reason of Mrs. Lugg selling is that
the business is getting too large for her to
manage single-handed, otherwise she would
not think of selling.
Terms liberal, declared at sale.
THOMAS AIOREOW and CO., Sea Lake.
Auctions.
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Do you have access to FindMyPast?
I wonder if they went to Durban (Port Natal, South Africa) in 1905 before heading to NZ?
PatLac ... I'd also found this shipping information earlier but as the New Zealand thread had progressed to other matters, I thought it not worthwhile to include it there.
I'm sure I also found information concerning the mystery of the children's whereabouts (in UK or other Court (divorce) reports c. 1909) - and it seemed to have been presented by a lawyer contradicting William I'ANSON's statement that OLDBURY had some part in the children's disappearance.
Yes, Isaiah OLDBURY did go to South Africa (September ? 1905) ... ostensibly for a holiday and business trip ...and he made an announcement locally to that effect - although at the time he did not relinquish the Mayoralty of Wednesbury.
Of course the UK (and other) newspapers are chock-full of this "scandalous" divorce case in 1909. :o
I've tried to again locate the article(s) which carried information clarifying dates and other important matters - it's very time consuming. Also re-read the divorce file @ ancestry.com).
The following newspapers carry quite lengthy reports re: divorce. ("Tip of the iceberg" ... a hell of a lot more to be read in others papers. ;D )
* "The Leeds Mercury" - 30 July 1909 -- Mayor's Elopement
* "Hull Daily Mail" - 31 July 1909 - Ex-Mayor as Co-respondent
* "Illustrated Police News" - 7 August 1909 - An Eloping Mayor
~ Lu
-
Travel from UK, Southampton to Natal, South Africa
- Ship: "Kenilworth Castle" - departure 14 October 1905
- WHITFIELD - looks like "Mrs" and Miss - no ages were given but the columns ("Married female" and "Single female" over age of 12) were checked. )
- OLDBURY - Mr, Mrs and Master (aged 12 or below)
I remember at the time trying to exclude the WHITFIELD females (1905) as that surname also came up in other voyages to Natal. (All to no avail).
What I find a little odd, (and it's mentioned by Ranolki - Reply # 9 of NZ thread), is that the youngster Basil I'ANSON, was enrolled at a Christchurch school in July 1905 ???:
[I'm unable to further check that school record -- I believe it comes from the NZSG Collections CD (subscription needed) ].
~ Lu
-
Re: Basil I'ANSON .... enrolled as Basil OLDBURY at Christchurch School on 3 JULY 1905:
Record kindly provided by "kiwihalfpint" at Reply # 3 (NZ thread)
at this link > https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708766.0
~ Lu
-
I should have added more information on this.
Christiana and her three children arrived in Lyttleton, NZ first aboard the Rimutaka. She travelled as “Mrs Whitfield and family”. They arrived days before Basil was registered for school.
Isaiah’s son (also Isaiah) had previously emigrated to South Africa and been visiting the UK. He then returned to Natal on this sailing, ie later in 1905. He had previously arrived in England with his wife and two children but only had one child for the return trip. I’ve assumed his daughter (Dorothy N born 1896 in Cape Colonies) had died, although I can find no evidence. It crossed my mind that she may have died on the trip over from South Africa. So Isaiah Jnr, wife and son account for the three Oldburys. I believe the two Whitfields are in fact Isaiah plus Christiana’s oldest daughter Irene, her second illegitimate child. She seems to have kept out of the saga - once she arrived she took a job with a man named Reed Johnson and stayed with him in the Christchurch area for the rest of his life. I haven’t found their onward sailing from Natal to NZ although there were certainly sailings that fit.
Isaiah arrived back in London from Sydney on the Osterley on 30th April 1919. He was shown as John Wilson aged 78.
-
It's good to have that clarification. ;)
-
I should have added more information on this.
Christiana and her three children arrived in Lyttleton, NZ first aboard the Rimutaka. She travelled as “Mrs Whitfield and family”. They arrived days before Basil was registered for school.
Isaiah’s son (also Isaiah) had previously emigrated to South Africa and been visiting the UK. He then returned to Natal on this sailing, ie later in 1905. He had previously arrived in England with his wife and two children but only had one child for the return trip. I’ve assumed his daughter (Dorothy N born 1896 in Cape Colonies) had died, although I can find no evidence. It crossed my mind that she may have died on the trip over from South Africa. So Isaiah Jnr, wife and son account for the three Oldburys. I believe the two Whitfields are in fact Isaiah plus Christiana’s oldest daughter Irene, her second illegitimate child. She seems to have kept out of the saga - once she arrived she took a job with a man named Reed Johnson and stayed with him in the Christchurch area for the rest of his life. I haven’t found their onward sailing from Natal to NZ although there were certainly sailings that fit.
Isaiah arrived back in London from Sydney on the Osterley on 30th April 1919. He was shown as John Wilson aged 78.
Thanks Ranolki. Did Mrs. Whitfield and family travel in the steerage? I can't find their names in the saloon passengers list.
-
Do you have access to FindMyPast?
I wonder if they went to Durban (Port Natal, South Africa) in 1905 before heading to NZ?
PatLac ... I'd also found this shipping information earlier but as the New Zealand thread had progressed to other matters, I thought it not worthwhile to include it there.
I'm sure I also found information concerning the mystery of the children's whereabouts (in UK or other Court (divorce) reports c. 1909) - and it seemed to have been presented by a lawyer contradicting William I'ANSON's statement that OLDBURY had some part in the children's disappearance.
Yes, Isaiah OLDBURY did go to South Africa (September ? 1905) ... ostensibly for a holiday and business trip ...and he made an announcement locally to that effect - although at the time he did not relinquish the Mayoralty of Wednesbury.
Of course the UK (and other) newspapers are chock-full of this "scandalous" divorce case in 1909. :o
I've tried to again locate the article(s) which carried information clarifying dates and other important matters - it's very time consuming. Also re-read the divorce file @ ancestry.com).
The following newspapers carry quite lengthy reports re: divorce. ("Tip of the iceberg" ... a hell of a lot more to be read in others papers. ;D )
* "The Leeds Mercury" - 30 July 1909 -- Mayor's Elopement
* "Hull Daily Mail" - 31 July 1909 - Ex-Mayor as Co-respondent
* "Illustrated Police News" - 7 August 1909 - An Eloping Mayor
~ Lu
Thanks Lu. I don't have access to FindMyPast, BNA and Ancestry UK records. I'm good at seeing patterns and the big picture though, so it's very important to get all the known facts even if they seem unrelated to the main question ;D
-
I’m pretty sure Christiana and children travelled Cabin Class when they initially went to NZ. I’ll check what I have on that.
I don’t think Isaiah had anything to do with the children disappearing. I think he was keeping a low profile and pretending he was off for a family visit to Natal and intended returning. I know he denied to William I’Anson that he had any idea where she had gone. He was probably tied up with his son and family being back from South Africa too. I know Christiana disappeared to Birmingham (not that far from Wednesbury, but a major city) once she left home and then sent word for the children once their passage was booked. Apparently (per Basil) they went on a visit to see her family in Durham too.
With all the scandalous reports about the elopement you may not have seen that Isaiah tried to have himself declared non-domiciled in the UK so he could say UK courts had no jurisdiction over him (and presumably his money). That was denied by the courts directly before they moved to Tasmania. His lawyers told the court they had no idea where he was at that point.
-
This is the saloon passengers list I'm referring to, but maybe it's not a complete list.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT19050701.2.93?end_date=01-07-1905&items_per_page=10&page=2&query=rimutaka&snippet=true&start_date=01-07-1905
So, Christiana left on 14 Feb 1905, the children around first week of March, they went to Durham, and embarked on the Rimutaka in London on 18 (or 28?) May 1905. Is that right?
I wonder why there is nothing in the newspapers regarding her 'disappearance' in 5 years?!
-
This is a report of the divorce from a local paper which gives extra information. In yet another article William I'Anson said that the children disappeared about six weeks after Christiana left, which seems to fit in reasonably well with leaving England in mid May.
Initially I think William thought they had gone to America and along with Isaiah apparently carrying on as usual and then the smokescreen about a holiday visit to South Africa I suppose William wouldn't have known where to start. But as you say, it does seem odd that there were no news articles about his missing wife and children in the interim. I know he said in court that someone he knew just happened to see the couple in Christchurch and told him, but he revised that at some point to say he had used a detective to track them down. Isaiah and Christiana first heard that he was looking to file for divorce in Sept 1907 and he had filed those papers the previous February so it was in fact only two years after she left.
-
Thank you Ranolki, much appreciated :) Maybe William wanted to avoid the scandal by not advertising his wife's disappearance, but that turned out to be impossible in the end.
-
You can see from the news article that the story was still not quite right. William and Christiana only had three children together and Isaiah didn't travel on the Rimutaka. Although her oldest son Anthony stayed behind for a while this was because he had a place at Birmingham University and was finishing his course. He turned up in Australia in 1909. The other child, Irene, finally left at the same time as Isaiah. One strange thing is that she always used the surname of Oldbury from then on...
-
And yet he travelled under the surname I'Anson when he went to Australia...
Family name Given name Age Year arrived Month arrived Ship Captain
IANSON ANTHONY 21 1909 JUN. RUNIC KERR D
-
I should have added more information on this.
Christiana and her three children arrived in Lyttleton, NZ first aboard the Rimutaka. She travelled as “Mrs Whitfield and family”. They arrived days before Basil was registered for school.
Isaiah’s son (also Isaiah) had previously emigrated to South Africa and been visiting the UK. He then returned to Natal on this sailing, ie later in 1905. He had previously arrived in England with his wife and two children but only had one child for the return trip. I’ve assumed his daughter (Dorothy N born 1896 in Cape Colonies) had died, although I can find no evidence. It crossed my mind that she may have died on the trip over from South Africa. So Isaiah Jnr, wife and son account for the three Oldburys. I believe the two Whitfields are in fact Isaiah plus Christiana’s oldest daughter Irene, her second illegitimate child. She seems to have kept out of the saga - once she arrived she took a job with a man named Reed Johnson and stayed with him in the Christchurch area for the rest of his life. I haven’t found their onward sailing from Natal to NZ although there were certainly sailings that fit.
Isaiah arrived back in London from Sydney on the Osterley on 30th April 1919. He was shown as John Wilson aged 78.
Either Dorothy wasn't travelling with the family or they failed to log her because she was very much alive in 1901 in St Heliers, Jersey, Channel Islands with the family.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X916-K6W?treeref=GTRH-DZV&lang=en
-
Thanks for that, I hadn't seen that census info. I didn't actually track exactly when Isaiah Jnr and family came back into the UK but it had apparently been a few years if they were on the 1901 census. I know the family went back to St Helier in later years too. I'm not sure if you know but the Channel Islands, although part of the UK for records etc is quite separate in a lot of ways. A very small set of islands and quite a distance from mainland UK. In fact physically far closer to France with a big French influence too.
But I still can't see where Dorothy was by 1905 when her parents and brother left for Natal.
-
I haven't found any more info about the family.
Could this have been the inspiration for Isaiah's alias John Wilson?
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT19061206.2.56?end_date=31-12-1907&items_per_page=10&page=7&phrase=2&query=tuam+street&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1905&type=ARTICLE%2CILLUSTRATION
-
PatLac, that's an interesting one and it could be!
I had always assumed he chose it because it's a name within Christiana's family (and one of her older sister's married name) and also very common in the North East of England. But he only seems to have chosen that after he and Christiana split so I doubt either of those reasons would have applied to him. I often wonder about all the pseudonyms they chose and whether there are more they used...
It did come as a surprise to discover how easy it was to book passages on those steamships with no ID. I saw one of the sign-up slips used in a museum and it's quite literally that - a little slip of paper with a name. Quite often no spouse or children's names - just "and family". And even for Isaiah's return in 1919 it was quite normal for no passports to be needed when travelling within the British Empire.
-
I also wondered about the only Maydwell family I could find in Christchurch. Mr Daniel Maydwell, wife Anna, son "Ernest" George Holditch and daughter Evelyn. Quite a story as well! Miss Evelyn Maydwell married Robert William Coburn, son of Thomas Bryden Coburn of Tuam Street, Linwood in 1911.
-
That's probably as good an explanation as any other. In fact, better, as I've not seen the name anywhere else!
-
The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) Sat 24 Apr 1920
Page 25
Advertising
SEA LAKE— Sale by auction, 8th May, Coffee
Palace (Maydwell's), 24 r., yards, stabling.
going concern. S. Lockart, auctioneers, Sea Lake.
-
That's interesting too. I don't think she ever actually owned the premises so that will just be a locator rather than the name of the seller. Now I have Then Awake Sea Lake I'll check what it says there. I believe she left in around 1930 and went to Maimuru.
-
The Young Chronicle (NSW : 1902 - 1910; 1913 - 1915; 1924 - 1934; 1936 - 1940) Tue 3 Jan 1928
Page 1
CORRESPONDENCE
CORRESPONDENCE
MAJOR REID'S VOCAL POWERS.
(To the Editor.)
Sir, — In your issue of December 23,
under 'Town Topics," I notice you
state that Major Reid spoke quickly
and hurriedly at his welcome and that
the listeners at times found difficulty
in gettinng the gist of his remarks, and
added that no doubt with more prac-
tice he would overcome these slight
faults.
As one who listened I can say I did
not find it difficult to follow his every
word, although I am quite elderly, and
my hearing is not so good as when
younger.
Major Reid has the rare gift of be-
ing able to think quickly, and also to
put his thoughts into words quickly
which is fortunate for him and for us.
Had he not been able to think quickly
and act quickly when at the front, and
cut off from part of his regiment, he
would not have been alive to-day.
That also was one of the topics spok-
en of at his welcome.
Surely Major Reid has had more
practice of speech-making than most
men of his age, seeing he has been a
public man all his life and an alder-
man at the age of 21 years. His
friends predict that he will be quite
capable of making the gist of his re-
marks understood at Parliament
House without further practice, and
I trust that those who are opposed to
him now, with a little more experience
of his worth, will be his friends. —
(Mrs.) C. MAYDWELL Snr. Mai-
muru.
-
Just to be fair with William I'Anson... he started divorce proceedings in 1907.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8001222
-
Yes it seems it took a while to locate them. It must have been hard to do in those days and gathering evidence would have been long winded and expensive.
-
Do you think this could be Wiliam I'Anson?
Name: Age at Death (in years):
ANSON, WILLIAM 64
GRO Reference: 1930 D Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 251
FindMyPast has his name IANSON and the burial place is close to his birth place.
-
The pointers against this is that William would have been 68 in 1930 and I’Anson is a reasonably common name in Yorkshire and the NE generally. I know people have picked up on this one before though. I’ll go back through my notes and see what I have…
-
Yep, but given that the other options of the right age have been accounted for and the fact that he had no close family could be a factor for the slightly different age and the confusion with the surname and the age of this particular person (DOB 1864 according to the burial records and age 64 in 1930 according to the death certificate), unless he married again and/ or moved overseas
Have you found him in the 1921 Census?
-
I think my only option might be to apply for a copy of the Death Cert. It’s a loose end that needs clearing up. I've applied - let's see in four days time!
Yes he was still in the Midlands in 1921. His “housekeeper” in 1911 and 1921 has never been traced either. It clearly states Rosina Zeamond on the census forms but I can find no trace of her.
-
Fingers crossed ;D
Do you have any information regarding Isaiah Oldbury's life in Victoria as John Wilson between 1911 and 1919? I have a theory but it's so farfatched that I prefer not to speculate ;D
-
At the moment I haven’t. I had assumed he had gone back to NZ until recently so this is new.
It looks as though the address he gave when making his will was not long term so I can’t rely on anything relating to that either. As he had been involved in civic pursuits (JP, alderman etc) I wouldn’t be surprised seeing him doing something similar. The name he was using will be a drawback when trying to find him via Trove etc though.
His business in the UK was typical of that region, manufacturing of larger items in iron and steel. He may have looked to involve himself in some sort of business role. But overall I can imagine finding him may be by chance rather than design.
One of the disadvantages I have is not fully understanding what regular registers and records might be out there for Victoria - my main knowledge is what we might expect in the UK…
-
Your reply gives me some hope ;D I have looked for all John Wilsons on Sands and McDougall's directory from 1905 to 1925 and crossed that information with ads available on Trove for the same period of time, and one interesting thing came up. My English is not good enough to explain it though. It's a bit late here, so tomorrow I'll try to write down my thoughts as best as I can. One thing that helped is that most John Wilsons had a second forename, I bet Isaiah didn't think that would actually make it easier to track him down.
-
I wish I had something to offer in this interesting search,
One of the disadvantages I have is not fully understanding what regular registers and records might be out there for Victoria - my main knowledge is what we might expect in the UK…
Victoria has a wealth of records and resources and many of them are listed at the top of the Australian Board.
Some require Ancestry sub, but many do not.
Have a look.
Possibly those more familiar with the collections could help too.
Sue
-
I think my only option might be to apply for a copy of the Death Cert. It’s a loose end that needs clearing up. I've applied - let's see in four days time!
Yes he was still in the Midlands in 1921. His “housekeeper” in 1911 and 1921 has never been traced either. It clearly states Rosina Zeamond on the census forms but I can find no trace of her.
I wonder if this Edward Zammond was Rosina's relative? It looks like they had big trouble understanding their surname because he's nowhere to be found either!
-
Thanks everyone for your input into this. I DO have an Ancestry.co.uk subscription so I’ll see what might be in there.
The other thing I have is a copy of Isaiah’s signature. It’s distinctive so may be useful for comparisons somewhere along the line.
And in a saga of many fake names I suppose Rosina Zeamond might be just one more. Let’s see if this death certificate will give me any clues about where she and William I’Anson went after 1921…
-
Regarding John Wilson in Melbourne, Victoria.
After tracking down most John Wilsons on Sands&Mac Directory from 1905 to 1925, a particular one appeared at 465 Church street, Richmond, in the 1915 edition.
Unfortunately the editions have a 5 year gap between them.
This John Wilson was a coach builder. At the same address (465-467 Church st, Richmond) in 1905 and 1910 was J. W. George, or Johnney William George, a coach and lorry builder, blacksmith, and Councillor for Richmond Central Ward.
Apparently, J. W. George moved to larger premises in Church Street (549-551) 'now deep in Motor Trade', and leased the 465 address to John Wilson. At 467 Church Street there was another coach builder named Frank Andrewartha.
John Wilson advertised from 13 Feb 1913 to 27 April 1918, after that the address was in the name of another coach builder, Eli W. Day.
There are many references to J. W. George on Trove, his trade and political career reminded me of Isaiah.
Could this John Wilson be him? Hard to tell but the coincidence is interesting.
P.S. There were other 2 John Wilsons, coachbuilders, with addresses in Seville (31 mi) and Wedderburn (140 mi) from Melbourne, I haven't been able to track their stories yet. Councillor J. W. George went on 'a tour to England and other European countries, as well as the United States of America' in 1925.
P.P.S. Another interesting coincidence... Next door, at 464 Church Street, Richmond, there was a John Wilson, confectioner (1920, 1925), another possible source of inspiration for his fake name?
-
Could be! I’m assuming he went to Melbourne as John Vernon, and John Wilson came later. According to British reports he was looking into being involved in the motor trade before he left the UK too.
-
Shipping records from Tasmania would be good. It would be a very narrow window too, mid to late Spring 1910
-
Whatever he did, I don’t think he made much money from it. When he died in 1922 his estate was £160 gross.
-
What about Christiana? Did she leave a will?
-
No I haven’t been able to find one. Is there a Probate Registry in Australia? It’s where we would check here.
-
Yes, they're usually here, but searching for Maydwell has no matches.
https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates
Oops, sorry, she died in NSW!
-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0
Not sure the links are working.
-
https://mhnsw.au/indexes/deceased-estates/deceased-estates-index/
No matches.
-
Christiana Maydwell's father, John WHITFIELD did leave a will in NSW. Made in 1892. In Young NSW
He bequeathed her an annuity of 20 pounds.
Her name then was I'ANSON.
This thread is lengthy and I admit to not being 100% familiar with all its twists so maybe I am repeating information here.
Sue
-
Yes John Whitfield left an interesting will. He died in 1892 in the UK. As far as I know he never left there. He left Christiana 12 cottages and a yearly annuity of £20. I think Young, NSW is where Christiana died in 1950. I’m not sure what happened to the cottages ie were they sold or did she just continue receiving the rents once they became hers in 1906 when her mother remarried. They were all very close to her father’s farm, which was split between her two brothers in the will. Her three sisters certainly didn’t do as well as Christiana did from it either.
-
This is possibly the Coach-builder from Richmond, John WILSON.
If so, the Sands Directory listing shows just a work or business address as he does not appear on the Electoral Roll at Church street as given by PatLac.
It may, of course be not the same man.
Marriage
FORTUNE Amy Constance
WILSON, Jno
1906
3800/1906
Victorian Electoral Roll
1909.
457 Swan Street Richmond WILSON, John. Coachsmith
With Amy Constance WILSON.
1913- 1915
2 Brook Street Richmond.WILSON, John. Coachsmith
With Amy Constance WILSON
1925
63 Brighton Street Richmond. WILSON, John. Coachsmith
With Amy Constance WILSON
Where John can be seen remaining to 1942 and Amy to 1963
Amy Constance WILSON died aged 82 in 1963 at Fitzroy F. Jas FORTUNE. M. Elizabeth JOHNSTON. #19925.
Working with information from Amy’s headstone, this is likely the death of her husband John
WILSON John Graham
M. Hannah MAHONY
F. WILSON John Graham
At ELSTERNWICK
RICHMOND
Aged 76
9625/1955
Sue
-
John William GEORGE a coach-builder lived with Eliza Ann GEORGE from 1912 to 1922 at 203 Lennox street Richmond.
Prior to that he was without others of the surname at 124 Richmond Terrace, Richmond .
After 1922 the couple moved to Riversdale Rd, Glenferrie.
He died
GEORGE Johney Williams
M. Thirza GILBERT
F. Josiah
Born BALLARAT
Died HAWTHORN
Aged 84
3647/1952
Sue
-
We know he left Australia in March 1919 and died in January 1922 so we have a sort of "anchor" to work on. I think that probably tells us he was neither of those John Wilsons though.
I've had a look at the old census forms and as far back as 1881 he was employing nearly 100 people - he was a major business owner. Somehow I can't imagine him doing nothing constructive during his years in Melbourne, although, being born in 1840 he was reasonably elderly. Given his history as a JP, Alderman and mayor I somehow see him being involved in some sort of civic work or general good deeds.
I know he became John Wilson for his passage home and still used that name once he got back to the UK. I know the shipping companies ran no checks at all and relied on a flimsy slip of paper to sign up for the passage and that someone clearly British would have no problem not using a passport to travel from Australia to England, even as late as 1919. Potentially that was him going back for a year in 1910 too, also as John Wilson. But would he perhaps have stayed as John Vernon? There must have been complications with bank accounts etc and he had just sold Ringwood for a large sum in the name of Vernon. I've just been through Trove and see nothing that might be "our" John Vernon though.
Did he buy a property? It seems to be his usual way... WWl ended on 11 Nov 1918 and he sailed in March 1919. Giving him sufficient time to sell a property before he left? Just one little whiff of a clue would be good, wouldn't it!
-
Thanks Sue, it's great to have someone with access to the Electoral Rolls on board ;D
Do you know if he would have to enroll considering his age during his time in Victoria?
Ranolki,
Do you have access to the ship's record of his arrival in London in 1919? Does is say he embarked on Melbourne? It says the ship departed from Sydney, is that correct?
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Yes, the records show he embarked in Melbourne. He was travelling 3rd class. The ship's route after Sydney was Melbourne; Adelaide; Fremantle; Colombo; Port Said; Naples then Plymouth.
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I suppose he would have to be in the electoral rolls then.
This is another coincidence... a blacksmith living at Isaiah's late address in Victoria.
The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) Wed 20 Mar 1918
Page 6
Advertising
MARRIED Couple waiting, farm, station, black-
smith, rough carpenter, wind mills, ploughing;
wife, light duties. Handy, 18 Napier-st., Fitzroy.
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The departure of the Osterley does not list any passengers in 3rd class despite the statement to the contrary at the top of this news item
A complete list of passengers departing Melb
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/243473313?searchTerm=%22osterley%22
It is stated the ship departs from Melbourne March 20th 1919.
On the digitised UK Incoming passengers list, where we see John WILSON with no occ aged 78, it states Embarked Melbourne.
There was reportedly a high demand for passages just after the end of the war and he would have needed to book well ahead or, if it was an urgent departure, accept whatever class was available.
So he made his will on Aug 18th 1918 with executorship given to a merchant named Robert McCutcheon Edgar who lived in Kew. The distance between the addresses about 6 or 7 kilometers.
At that time he clearly knew that Christiana was not deceased (otherwise why would he bequeath to her?) and assumed her whereabouts would be known by the date his will was enacted.
OR
He knew perfectly well where she was,
Here is a picture of 18 Napier St
It is quite large and very possibly used in 1919 as a lodging place with a number of residents.
Sue
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Thanks for that extra info and the photo. I DID find an advert for a room to let at 18 Napier St from 1888 so it may have been just what you thought. I think Isaiah could have been low on funds after keeping himself since 1910 so living in “rooms” wouldn’t surprise me - but then owning a home seems more his style. Although he certainly lived in anonymous boarding houses in London once he was back in the UK.
On Ancestry.co.uk it shows the original Osterley manifest. It shows he travelled third class on there. Strangely it only shows the date of arrival in London and not the departure. I can imagine the sailings would be in huge demand after four years too.
In his will he leaves his estate to Sarah Oldbury, his long deserted wife, back in England. They had never divorced. She ended up having to execute the will herself as Robert Edgar declined to act. It seems Robert Edgar was appointed a JP in 1922 ie just the sort of acquaintance Isaiah might choose.
I don’t think he had any idea about where Christiana was. She had changed her name and going to Sea Lake was seemingly very spur of the moment once she reached Melbourne.
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I’ve now seen the actual Will. It was written in August 1918 in Melbourne. He gave his real name, then added sometimes known as John Wilson and his address as 18 Napier Street, Fitzroy. It was very basic, leaving his estate to his estranged wife. She eventually acted as executor. He left £160 gross.
I’m now seeing what I can find for the sale of Empire Bridge Farm. Unfortunately if that really was him on that short trip back to England he managed to miss the census both there and Australia for 1911.
Ok.
I see where I have slipped up here.
Apologies .
I read "estranged wife" to be Christiana and of course it wasn't ::) Quite obvious now.
I think This kind of silly misunderstanding can happen when the threads are long and complex (very interesting too!) and I have come to it very late in the piece.
Sue
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Actually the Osterley sailed on the 21st March 1919 (newspaper says 'tomorrow') and the ship's 7 pages manifest is available on PROV but the only J. Wilson mentioned is 39 years old. ???
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/29C356ED-F7F0-11E9-AE98-712FD73DF945?image=101
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Sparrett I love your input and don't mind going over things, it always makes things clearer in my mind when I need to go back and double check.
PatLac, this is a copy of the original manifest. You can see him right at the bottom.
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That's a bit blurred, here's a closer view...
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Thanks, Ranolki. Is he under 'single male'? I can't read the headline.
I can see many discrepancies. Mrs. Savell and infant 33 and 3 in the London manifest and 26 and 2 in the Melbourne manifest.
Mr. G. Trudgeon 43 (Melbourne), Gilbert Wilfred Trudgeon 26 (London).
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Could this be 'Rosina Zeamond'? Can someone with access to BNA check the article?
Local and General
... —At . Wolverhampton Police Court on Tuesday, Rose Steven. ton, housekeeper, living at 104, Church Road, Bradmore, was fined £5 and ordered to pay £2 6s. lg»ctill costs, for travelling from Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton on the G ...
Published: Friday 25 June 1920
Newspaper: Shrewsbury Chronicle
Page 8
County: Shropshire, England
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Yes his age is shown in the column showing he was an unaccompanied male adult.
That's an interesting find about the court case. The 1921 census was 19 June 1921 and their address was definitely 104 Church Road, Bradmore. There are no Electoral Roll entries for that area for any year on Ancestry though. I don't have access to BNA but here's hoping someone else does!
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I think it's her ;D
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Thanks, Ranolki. Is he under 'single male'? I can't read the headline.
By class I think. The column heading is 3rd class.
Sue
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Could this be 'Rosina Zeamond'? Can someone with access to BNA check the article?
Local and General
... —At . Wolverhampton Police Court on Tuesday, Rose Steven. ton, housekeeper, living at 104, Church Road, Bradmore, was fined £5 and ordered to pay £2 6s. lg»ctill costs, for travelling from Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton on the G ...
Published: Friday 25 June 1920
Newspaper: Shrewsbury Chronicle
Page 8
County: Shropshire, England
Looks like her surname in article is > STEVENTON > ... there is a hyphen after letter "n" ... and "ton" is on the following line.
Article ends in stating that she had a previous conviction for a similar offence :
~ Lu
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As you of course know, in 1911 William I'ANSON lived at 60 Arundel Rd Walsall with housekeeper Rosina ZEAMOND and I did have a quiet smile when I read this advertisement he placed.
Saturday 03 June 1911
Newspaper: Walsall Observer
Selling a pleasure trap from 60 Arundel.
... Pleasure Trap, Werner wheels, lather fibber tyies, good condition ; no reasonsbk ester refuiied.—Apply, W. 1. Anson, 60, Arundel Street, Walsall.......
A little carriage of some sort no doubt ::) ;D
Sue
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I think it's her ;D
I think you're right ;D ... good work PatLac. :)
Whilst I was looking for her, possibly in 1939, something else cropped up in a newspaper report. ::)
"Staffordshire Sentinel" - 26 July 1924
Headlines read >
"Woman's Theft From Hanley Shops"
" Described as a Professional Shoplifter"
" Three Months' Imprisonment"
___________________________________
Just briefly ('cos I need to re-read article) >
At Hanley Police Court :
Rosina STEVENTON ... of 104 Church Street, Bradmore. Wolverhampton
* stated she was a single woman - aged about 40 years (bc 1884)
* she pleaded for leniency ... said for many years she had been housekeeper to a gentleman.
* * Edited to add >
* The police had searched her home in Bradmore (on 24 July) and also found additonal property taken from other stores.
* She stated that she wanted the (stolen) property to be returned ... "was awfully sorry" ... "and that she would see that she didn't get into trouble again." * *
Charged on a number of counts for stealing ... 20 or so, hanks of silk / 14 yards of silk / shoes / 4 remnant pieces of silk / a bedspread ... (and a good deal more.)
----------------
The above ^ is a later charge (1924), but at her sentencing in 1920 report said she had "a previous conviction" (or at least an earlier charge against her).
~ Lu
Edited to add: Further Court appearance (at London) 1930 -- in following post.
-
Rosina / Rose STEVENTON >
Should have mentioned that upon hearing the decision of the Court (1924 - 3 months jail), the woman (Rosina) fainted and had to be carried from the Court by policemen. ::)
_____________ / / ________________
That made me remember yet another later case ... Rose STEVENTON (something of a "drama queen" perhaps ?? ).
"Evening Despatch" (Birmingham) -- 24 April 1930
Headlines > "Birmingham Woman In Scene" / "Found to Be Insane After Collapse"
/ Court Incident :
" A painful scene was created at Marlborough-street Court, London, today by Rose STEVENTON, shop assistant of 152 High Street, Bordesley, Birmingham ... "
( abbreviated ) >
- charged with stealing and receiving from a Piccadilly store .. 2 hats / gloves, a coat and a handbag.
- When store's house detective began her evidence, Steventon collapsed in the dock and began to cry out.
- Later seen by a doctor, who considered her, (Rose), to be insane.
- The Magistrate discharged her.
She was then to be sent to an institution in Fulham.
~ Lu
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Oh that's all interesting, I'll have a good look shortly. Well done though, it looks like another problem solved. I wonder if William was still her employer at that point? Bordesley is right in the heart of Birmingham itself (last report) and she was stealing household goods as well as personal items. Perhaps living alone by then?
What I CAN report is that I have a copy of the death certificate for the William I'Anson who died in December 1930. But it's not our man. This one was in fact William Anson and he lived in Sculcoates, which is part of Hull. Also in Yorkshire in 1930 but as a whole Yorkshire (which was divided into four "ridings" at one point but is now known as West, South and North Yorkshire with Hull moving into a new county of Humberside) is the largest county in the UK and it's probably well over 70 miles from where our William I'Anson was born. I live in North Yorkshire and it's one of the bleaker and more remote counties in the north of England (think Bronte sisters...) so I don't see a lot of movement going on at that time. William Anson's death was reported by his sister, Mary Elizabeth Richardson. He was a labourer. I can see Elizabeth's marriage and her surname was definitely Anson. I think his death has been tied up with William I'Anson for some time so I'm pleased to put that one to bed.
Now back to Rosina Zeamond...
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So Rosina was apprehended for that last bit of shop-lifting in London despite still giving a Birmingham address. I wonder if she ever got out of the institution she was sent to? If so, she might be the Rosina Seaman Steventon show in the Worcester Electoral Register for 1938/39?
Although there is a Rose Steventon (with a different year of birth) shown as an inmate of Tooting Bec Hospital (a mental institution) in the 1939 Register. Could be her? Tooting is pretty close to Fulham... It appears that Rose died in 1949 aged 82 if you take 1868 as her year of birth, 66 if we use 1883. Registered in Wandsworth - which is the recording district for Tooting.
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How exciting ;D
I'm glad you have ruled out William Anson, I wonder why he is listed as I'Anson on FindMyPast...
Rosina, what a piece of work. ;D
Thanks Lucy!
I thought she could be this one and the STEVENTON surname could have been added as an alias borrowed from someone else (mother maiden name, partner). She would have to be lying about her place of birth though.
Births Mar 1883 (>99%)
SEAMAN Rosina Annie Bethnal Green 1c 241
(Added: married Charles FARMER)
I can't find the entry on GRO though.
There is this christening record that rings a bell because it's one of a kind, obviously the surname has been misspelled.
Rose Simonond
Vital • England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
EDIT
Rose Simonond person details
Name Rose Simonond
Sex Female
Birth Date 22 Dec 1883
Father's Name John Simonond
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Esther
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Christening
Event Date 13 Jan 1884
Event Place Deptford, Kent, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) St Paul, Deptford, Kent, England
London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1972
John Siminonds
Residence
1901 Deptford, England
IF this is the right family, this is her birth register: (mother Esther nee WREN)
SIMMONDS, ROSE WREN
GRO Reference: 1884 M Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 1100
1891 Census in St Paul, Deptford, with father John, mother Esther, siblings Ellen, Elizabeth, John William. She was Fanny...
Possible death:
SIMMONDS, ROSE 73
GRO Reference: 1957 M Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 09B Page 793
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Oh that one is interesting. I’m out and can’t access the 1939 Register. Is she there? West Bromwich is very close to Walsall…
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I can't see the records but from what I can see in the preview, there are 2 possibilites, one in London and the other in Essex.
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Possible death:
SIMMONDS, ROSE 73
GRO Reference: 1957 M Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 09B Page 793
^ Above was a Mrs Rose SIMMONDS - died c. 31 January 1957 at W. Bromwich Dist. Hospital after falling from a bedroom window at home. Lived at 73 Church Street, Oldbury :
Source - "Birmingham Daily Post" - 1 Feb 1957
1921 and 1939 - with husband Arthur at 15 Church Street, Oldbury - both born Worcestershire-Oldbury -- she born 22 June 1883 :
~ Lu
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Thanks, Lu. The search continues.
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Thank you. I’m wondering, should we be looking under Simmonds or Steventon?
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I can't see any Rose or Rosina Steventon in the right age bracket on FreeBMD. And the spelling of her birth name could be anything from SIMMS to SYMMONDS and who knows what else.
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Yes I'm sure she IS the Rose Steventon you found, but where did that name come from? It overlaps with the Simmonds/Zeamond name based on the dates. I can't see she got married. The Rose Seaman Steventon one I found was interesting but I happen to know Barnt Green Road, Rednal and it's pretty "posh" so unless she was living in as a domestic I don't see that being her. And who, in an affluent area, would take her on with the references she probably had by then?
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I think she is the Rose/Rosina Steventon of the newspapers' articles but I'm not entirely sure she is the Rose Simmonds registered at Dartford. The reason is that the 1921 Census, age 38 y 2 mo, is very accurate (unless she lied) or she was born around April 1883, christened and registered in January 1884, but her DOB in the christening record is 22 December 1883. I think her real name was Simmonds or similar (1911 and 1921 Census) and Steventon was an alias or maybe a step-father's surname.
For comparison, William's age is 59 y 9 mo. He was christened and registered in September 1862.
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I did find one born in Maidstone in the right year. I'll go back, track that one down and report back...
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Regarding Maidstone...
I have found a grave that is likely her sister (if she was Rose Simmonds, daughter of John and Esther nee Wren). Her age isn't quite right as well.
Chatham Maidstone Road Cemetery
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/224961255/caroline-jane-simmonds
Mother maiden name GOWER
Her sister Caroline Jane Simmonds married Edward Bartlett PERRY, had 6 children (one of them Rose) and died in 1914 in Deptford, Kent.
Their mother Esther SIMMONDS (nee WREN) died in 1918 in Holllingbourne which is in the Maidstone district.
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Ah interesting, I'm off for another look. You legally have to register a birth within six weeks in the UK so the quarter of registration should be accurate unless someone was born right at the end or right at the beginning when they might overlap.
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I found Rosetta Ann Simmonds born in the last quarter of 1882 in Maidenhead. Potentially another candidate?
I suppose I have only really been interested in Rosina/Rose/Rosetta Zeamond/Steventon/Simmonds as I thought she might lead me to knowing what happened to William I'Anson but I'm beginning to think that she really was a housekeeper and nothing more. It's strange that we have yet another person potentially using pseudonyms though. I wonder if she left his employment after that 1924 court case? The address she gave in 1930 (High St, Bordesley) is almost in the centre of Birmingham. It was very poor in the 1930s (now partially redeveloped to be part of the inner city area) and I just don't see William living there at all.
So my quest has to still be...
1. What did Isaiah Oldbury/John Vernon/John Wilson do between arriving in Melbourne and going back to the UK in 1919?
2. Was that him going back to England for a year directly after he and Christiana split up? I can understand him going "home" (I think he was very driven by his money and at that point he had realised all his NZ and Australian assets) but if that was the case, why did he go back a year later? He would have been anonymous in England as John Wilson (as his later return proved, given that his death certificate was issued in that name) and I think William I'Anson had by 1910 run out of money to keep tabs on him, even under his real name. Isaiah had handed his business over to his oldest son so it wouldn't relate to that, and I would be very surprised if he wanted to show his face in the Black Country. His photos and portraits had been in the press - he would have probably been still recognisable.
3. What vessels did they use to travel from NZ (probably Lyttleton) to Tasmania (probably Hobart) in around 1909 and also (separately) from Hobart to Melbourne in early 1910?
4. Did Christiana own (or later buy) the Coffee Palace premises? I don't think she did and I may still find info on that in Then Awake Sea Lake. It's a huge book, especially considering Sea Lake was only founded in the very late 1800s and has only ever had 800 people living there! I'm working my way through it...
5. Why didn't Christiana leave a will? in 1906 she inherited 12 cottages in Wheatbottom. Had she already sold them? if not I would imagine there should be a paper trail of her sons obtaining probate etc? She had three sons living at the point she died, her surviving daughter Irene having died two months before her.
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Do you have Irene's file?
INDEX
Oldbury Irene Whitfield
Deceased Estates Index 1880-1958
Item No: B49572 [20/5054] | Place: Killara | Remarks: Occupation: Spinster
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1e5kcq1/INDEX2790103
I suppose Christiana had so many aliases it would be difficult to leave a legally valid will? Isaiah's will was under his real name, which wasn't a problem because he was a man and back in his own country, but what about a woman who had married, divorced, and used at least 5 different names (Whitfield, before and after marriage, I'Anson, Oldbury, Vernon, and Maydwell), so she probably sold of transferred all her assets and property to her sons?
I would very much like to know who bought the Sea Lake Coffee Palace!
I was about to ask you... mother Rebecca??
Name Registration Number Father's Given Name(s) Mother's Given Name(s) District
MAYDWELL CHRISTIANA 31181/1951 NOT KNOWN REBECCA YOUNG
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How very strange! Christiana's mother was Elizabeth Whitfield née Graham. She was John Whitfield's second wife, much younger than him. His first wife was Hannah. Elizabeth had the right to the income from those cottages until her remarriage or death. She remarried in 1906 and died in 1910...
Irene always used Isaiah's surname once she arrived in NZ which I found odd. As soon as she arrived in Christchurch she went to live with a man named Newton Reed Johnston as his housekeeper. She lived with him for the rest of her life (he was a widower with several children) and they travelled together. I believe they went to England and also South Africa. They ended up in NSW from 1939. He left her very well provided for in his will with the estate to go to his sons once she had died.
I'm pretty sure Christiana rented the Coffee Palace to begin with at least. I have a couple of names for likely owners so I need to follow that trail in the book. I'm not sure she had the capital to buy anywhere outright - as far as I can see her only income was a £20 per annum annuity from her father's estate plus whatever rental income came in from the cottages (unless she sold them sometime after 1906).
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Yes, who the heck was Rebecca?? I suppose one of her sons was the informant?
Do you have the probate documents of her father? What was Christiana's surname? Was his will written before she married (1889)?
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This is a transcript of the Will. It's not entirely accurate as the original makes a few things about the cottages clearer, but the general gist is here. He made the Will two days before he died in 1892.
This Is the Last Will and Testament
John Whitfield of Wheatbottom in the County of Durham. Farmer made this on the Ninth Day of February One thousand eight hundred and ninety two. I appoint John Henry Wilson, Grocer, and John Robert Hodgson, Butcher, both of Crook in the said County, Executors and Trustees of this my Will. I devise unto my sons, Ralph Herron Whitfield and John William Whitfield, that my Farm, Farm House, Buildings and Land, known as Wheatbottom Farm and all my live stock, implements and household furniture in equal shares as tenants in common, subject however to and chargeable to with the payments of an Annuity of Twenty pounds which I bequeath to my daughter, Christiana I”Anson payable by instalments of Ten pounds every six months. I devise with my wife, Elizabeth, my Seven Cottages called Wheatfield Cottages,and the five Cottages situated at or near the Hollow for her life, provided she continue my widow and from after her disease or remarriage, I devise the same unto my daughter, Christiana I’Anson, her heirs and assigns for her and her separate use absolutely. I devise my son Ralph Herron of the Hollow for his life my Grass field situated at the Hollow behind the Hall(?) alley and after his death I devise the same unto my son, John William Whitfield absolutely. I devise unto my daughter Sarah Wilson the cottage she now occupies and unto my daughter Mary Dodds, the cottage she now occupies and I direct the Garden be equally divided between them. I devise all other my Real and Personal Estate whatsoever unto my said Trustees Upon trust to sell the same in such manner as they shall think fit and proper, and after the payment of all my just debts funeral and testamentary expenses to divide the residue equally between and among my two Sons Ralph Herron Whitfield and John William Whitfield and my daughters Mary Dodds and Sarah Wilson and Hannah Conway. I revoke all former Wills in witness whereof I have herewith set my hand the day and year before written
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Christiana Maydwell's father, John WHITFIELD did leave a will in NSW. Made in 1892. In Young NSW
He bequeathed her an annuity of 20 pounds.
Her name then was I'ANSON.
This thread is lengthy and I admit to not being 100% familiar with all its twists so maybe I am repeating information here.
Sue
Thanks Ranolki!
I should have known... Sue had already mentioned it. I wonder why NSW? By 1906 she was in New Zealand...
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But there is something wrong with that. John Whitfield had never been to Australia, his Will was made in 1892 on his deathbed and prepared by a local solicitor back in Durham, England. William I'Anson Jnr (by then calling himself Ian Christian Maydwell) was the first person to move to Young and that wasn't until after the end of WWl when he got his soldier's settlement. I'm not sure how that info came about!
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Exactly! And we know that she received her annuity in New Zealand - "Bank of New Zealand on Cashel Street confirmed that Mrs. I’Anson had cashed annuity payments under her maiden name,
Whitfield, further suggesting an attempt to conceal her identity"- so what is this NSW connection? And how could she cash her annuity under her maiden name if the annuity was in her married name?
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Regarding Rosetta Ann Simmonds. She's not Rosina.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/GHZP-G5M
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OK, thanks for the Rosetta info anyway!
The only way I can imagine the annuity payment would work would be with the connivance of her family back home. I know she remained in touch with her half-sister Sarah (there were apparently letters, which I haven't been able to track down but which were spoken about years later) and that the money arose from profits from Wheatbottom Farm, then being run by her older half brother Ralph alone as his younger brother had died not long after their father. So presumably she just asked them to send the money to her in the name of Whitfield? The rest of the family had stayed geographically close, the cottage left to Sarah was actually on the farm so they would have been able to have conversations about it. I can imagine it wouldn't have been done formally via a solicitor once her entitlement was established. At that time it would have been to her as Christiana I'Anson but as soon as she left William it could have reverted to Whitfield.
I also know she travelled to Durham for a final family visit after she left William and before she left for NZ so it would have been an ideal opportunity to organise something that way too.
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Thanks, that makes sense. I couldn't find anything on NSW archives regarding John Whitfield. I hope Sue is still viewing this thread, I would like to see that file!
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I looked for a copy of the original Will for you to see but it seems it was just talked about in an email conversation and the transcription corrected rather than the original being shown. I'll ask one of my fellow Christiana chasers if she has a copy of it, plus the probate. The difference between the transcription and the original was apparently only some extra commas thrown in regarding the various cottages - I don't think there was anything major otherwise. But if there is going to be a question about it being proved in Young I suppose it needs to be looked at!
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That would be much appreciated ;D
More evidence that Christiana was at the Sea Lake Coffee Palace soon after the sale on 28 June 1910 to a Melbourne buyer.
The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) Mon 10 Oct 1910
Page 3
Advertising
COOK. kitchen maid kept., liberal wages to sen-
sible girl, fare paid. Mrs. Maydwell, Coffee
Palace. Sea Lake.
The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) Sat 8 Oct 1910
Page 8
Advertising
LAUNDRESS, wages £1; must be really good at
collars; fare paid. Mrs. Maydwell, Commer-
cial Coffee Palace, Sea Lake
And I think she certainly owned this shop...
Bendigo Advertiser (Vic. : 1855 - 1918) Mon 1 Jun 1914
Page 1
Advertising
SHOP to Let, best corner position. Sea
Lake, two large windows, just renovated
and fitted, good cellar, and storeroom if de
sired, suitable any business. Mrs. Maydwell,
Commercial Coffee Palace, Sea Lake.
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Oh those are interesting, well found!
It's late here now but I'll go through Then Awake Sea Lake tomorrow and try to follow the trail of who owned what. The person who wrote the book belongs to the family who owned the business right alongside the Coffee Palace, he pointed out that Mrs Maydwell place had entrances on two streets and wrapped around the back of the corner shop, his family's business.
I speak to another very helpful person who lives in Sea Lake now too and she's been out taking photos so I can see what the area looks like now, but I think the author is the one who will have all this old information if I need any gaps filling. I know he's travelling at the moment but once I have as much as I can find in the book I can always ask him...
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Christiana Maydwell's father, John WHITFIELD did leave a will in NSW. Made in 1892. In Young NSW
He bequeathed her an annuity of 20 pounds.
Her name then was I'ANSON.
This thread is lengthy and I admit to not being 100% familiar with all its twists so maybe I am repeating information here.
Sue
Thanks Ranolki!
I should have known... Sue had already mentioned it. I wonder why NSW? By 1906 she was in New Zealand...
Well, What a bungle from me!
Again :o
Ambling through online family trees I had come to Ian Christian Maydwell (b.1890) the son of Christiana and Wm I'ANSON.
His son Christian was at Young NSW.
Nothing to do with Christiana at all. Sorry :(
The will of john Whitfield was attached to that family tree and I had just slid into error!
Anyhow, the team on this search are doing a great job of research and I, like others here,will follow with much interest.
Sue
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Thanks Sue, one mystery solved ;D
I was wondering ... if William died whilst living with Rosina, who couldn't spell her own surname juddging by the Censuses records, could his name have been misspelled?
He had a half-brother from his father's second marriage (m. Jane Lumley in 1871), Leonard I'Anson (same name as his father), who died in 1938 in Durham, but I suppose they were not acquainted?
Apart from him, William had no next of kin and being retired for so long, what would have been the source of his name for the purpose of registering his death?
An example of this:
Name: Age at Death (in years):
AMSON, WILLIAM 58
GRO Reference: 1921 S Quarter in STONE Volume 06B Page 28
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Yes I see what you mean. Pronunciation is a factor too. I had assumed initially that it was generally pronounced as EYE-Anson but it seems the normal way is EE-Anson, which would be pronounced like the Scandinavian way of pronouncing a J. I can't see anyone Jansons who might be him but it's a possibility...
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Ranolki, can you access this record on Ancestry?
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This one?
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Yes, thanks :)
I can't find his death register on NSW BDM.
NameRegistration NumberFather's Given Name(s)Mother's Given Name(s)District
JANSON WILLIAM 22980/1949 JAMES ELIZABETH LIVERPOOL
Found him here, date of birth is wrong and surname was Janson.
William Janson
Passed Away:
20 Sep 1949
Age:
75
Gender:
Male
Register Number:
4236146
Service Date:
22 Sep 1949
Burial Type:
Buried
Location:
Section Grave, Anglican Section H, Row 16, Grave 121
https://liverpoolcemetery.com.au/deceased-search/#deceased-search
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Yes wrong parents too. William I’Anson was born near Thirsk in North Yorkshire, quite a way from Liverpool.
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Of course, but given that we can't identify his death records we can't assume anything really. Who knows what happened in almost two decades (1921-1939)? ;D
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Oh those are interesting, well found!
It's late here now but I'll go through Then Awake Sea Lake tomorrow and try to follow the trail of who owned what. The person who wrote the book belongs to the family who owned the business right alongside the Coffee Palace, he pointed out that Mrs Maydwell place had entrances on two streets and wrapped around the back of the corner shop, his family's business.
I speak to another very helpful person who lives in Sea Lake now too and she's been out taking photos so I can see what the area looks like now, but I think the author is the one who will have all this old information if I need any gaps filling. I know he's travelling at the moment but once I have as much as I can find in the book I can always ask him...
The photograph circa 1910's makes the Coffee Palace seem to be a section of a large corner building and shared with other businesses.
It will be interesting to have the historic information of the place from the book.
Sue
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Also...
Perhaps you already have family photos, but this Qld State Library file purports to hold letters and photos of Ian Christian Maydwell. During WW1.
Have you seen them?
It is possible Ian Christian Maydwell, as he was known on enlistment, could have mentioned his mother’s doings in the letters? She was his NOK on enlistment, so one assumes there was contact ???
Letters from Ian Christian Maydwell to Harriet Amy Purvis during his service ww1.
Summary of contents
https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/255330831?keyword=%22maydwell%22
https://collections.slq.qld.gov.au/guide/32751/details#SR32751-5
You could try this service to access the content in more detail.
https://www.slq.qld.gov.au/services/ask-librarian
Harriet married in 1921 to James Augustus Sexton
Harriet A Purvis
James A Sexton
1921/4964
Sue
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Sorry, I’m away for the weekend and just looking in.
I haven’t actually seen those papers but I know they are mainly a couple of postcards and a pile of empty envelopes addressed by Ian to Harriet. I think Ian met Harriet just before he enlisted in the AIF when he was working at a hospital in Sydney. They carried on their correspondence throughout the war but it obviously didn’t work out (if in fact there was some sort of romantic intent there) and each of them married other people. It would have been great to see the original letters!
Harriet’s mother was great friends with a man who was a reasonably famous illustrator and cartoonist and I think the papers were preserved in connection with him somehow. I’ve seen the photo, it’s a portrait of Ian in his army uniform.