RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Ranolki on Friday 13 June 25 13:59 BST (UK)
-
Back in March I asked about Christiana Whitfield (and the many surnames she used) who had apparently spent a year in Tasmania around 1909/1910 before heading off to Sea Lake in Victoria, where she became Christiana Maydwell. The previous topic is under "Hiding in Tasmania"
.
I think the general consensus was that there really wasn't anything to suggest she actually went to Tasmania (where they supposedly took a property in New Norfolk which was damaged by fire). However since then I've looked closely at her time in Sea Lake and the death of her daughter, Christina, by suicide. Christina (known as Cissie) had taken the name Vernon and it had been assumed this was just an off the cuff invention to work anonymously in Melbourne.
However it's since been suggested Vernon was the pseudonym the family had used in Tasmania (I had originally understood it was North) and after another search I have turned up this on this site https://thelist.tas.gov.au. I'm thinking it might be records of them paying rent for a property. The name is Christina rather than Christiana but Christina was a minor at this point so I think it's more likely to be referring to Christiana if this relates to some sort of contract.
I'm assuming this refers to rents and the two names are the landlords. Has anyone else seen records like these and knows if I'm interpreting that correctly? Does anyone know if I could establish more or less where the property was situated?
-
I've looked further into this and now believe these relate to Isaiah Oldbury and Christiana I'Anson buying a property in Forcett (1909) of 200 acres under the false names of John and Christina Vernon, then selling 50 acres the following year. I know that they left Tasmania in 1910. Christiana travelled to Sea Lake in Victoria without Isaiah knowing where she had gone and he eventually returned to his farm in New Zealand. On that basis they could probably not have sold the remaining 150 acres and I assume it would eventually have reverted to the Crown?
The story was that their property in Tasmania burned down but I haven't found anything about that specifically. It could have been a useful story - they were never reticent about making things up to fit their agendas!
-
DIVORCE SUIT.
Otago Daily Times, Issue 14626, 11 September 1909, Page 7
Details of Christina L Anson and Isaiah Oldbury eloping to NZ c 1907-9 with her chn.
NZ papers available on Papers Past NZ
-
Hi aahume
Just mentioning that this "interesting" ;) couple Oldbury and Ianson, have been the subject of previous searches on Rootschat.
Here are a couple of threads that delve into their doings.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=888957.msg7624531#msg7624531
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708766.0
Sue
-
Yes, "interesting" is a good word for them... I've seen the previous threads and I think the story is gradually being unravelled but as soon as one knot is teased apart a bigger one appears!
There is some doubt still that they were using the names John and Christiana Vernon but I've done a timeline of the divorce petitions, disposal of NZ property, purchases in Tasmania etc and it all ties in beautifully, other than it seems they bought 200 acres in Feb 1909 and I can only find the sale of 50 acres the following year. By that time Isaiah was described as "overseas" - but this was a ploy they had used before too.
Added to that, Christiana's daughter Christina took the name Christina Vernon when she went off to work in Melbourne before committing suicide. Strangely the death certificate reported her age as 46 whereas she was 20 (it was corrected for the inquest) which just happens to have been her mother's age. I suspect she may have taken ID used by her mother in Tasmania and used it to get work.
One other thing that surprised me was the willingness to declare her death as suicide. She left no note and the coroner decided, with no evidence really, that she suffered with headaches and this led to mental derangement...
-
Hi Ranolki, Your attachment shows Land Titles of three properties, two of 200 acres and the third of 50 acres. Email the Tasmanian Land Titles for copies of each title. Land Titles after 1870 are not free
Regards
clancam37
Back in March I asked about Christiana Whitfield (and the many surnames she used) who had apparently spent a year in Tasmania around 1909/1910 before heading off to Sea Lake in Victoria, where she became Christiana Maydwell. The previous topic is under "Hiding in Tasmania"
.
I think the general consensus was that there really wasn't anything to suggest she actually went to Tasmania (where they supposedly took a property in New Norfolk which was damaged by fire). However since then I've looked closely at her time in Sea Lake and the death of her daughter, Christina, by suicide. Christina (known as Cissie) had taken the name Vernon and it had been assumed this was just an off the cuff invention to work anonymously in Melbourne.
However it's since been suggested Vernon was the pseudonym the family had used in Tasmania (I had originally understood it was North) and after another search I have turned up this on this site https://thelist.tas.gov.au. I'm thinking it might be records of them paying rent for a property. The name is Christina rather than Christiana but Christina was a minor at this point so I think it's more likely to be referring to Christiana if this relates to some sort of contract.
I'm assuming this refers to rents and the two names are the landlords. Has anyone else seen records like these and knows if I'm interpreting that correctly? Does anyone know if I could establish more or less where the property was situated?
-
Thank you.I've discovered more about those contracts via Tasmanian records, but it still leaves a mystery...
I've copied the contracts but they are still too large to post here. If anyone would like to see, they are free to access on thelist.tas.gov.au using the reference numbers on that schedule. The first contract refers to the transfer of a total of 200 acres (in three parcels of 100 acres and two of 50 each) to John and Christiana Vernon in 1909, various instructions about paying off an existing mortgage and the cost (which, after tortuous calculations between some figures in shillings and others in pounds) show they paid £315. The second entry on that schedule seems to be a typo as the other two documents just mention a piece of the original land, total size 50 acres. This was transferred for a nominal 5 shillings to each of them (and noting that by now John Vernon is "overseas"). No mention is made of the remaining 150 acres and I can see nothing to tell me what happened to it later.
I can find nothing to suggest people named John and Christina Vernon actually existed. I've also done a timeline merging what I know Isiaiah and Christiana did with the dates of these land purchases. They fit beautifully which is another pointer to what probably happened.
So now (this seems to be the never ending story...)
1. If there really were people named John and Christina Vernon, where did they come from and what happened to them? They are supposedly married but there is no evidence of this anywhere on
Ancestry.com or FamilySearch
2. What happened to the other 150 acres? Checking laws at that time it seems John Vernon could have sold the 150 acres without input from Christina as it was almost certainly his own money that bought it. So I'm wondering if this was just left to revert to the Crown?
3. This may answer why Christiana's daughter adopted the name Vernon when she ran away to Melbourne in 1913 before ultimately committed suicide
4. Is this the site of the mysterious fire alluded to in the piece written by Helen Maydwell, rather than the New Norfolk fire she mentioned (I can't find evidence of that anywhere). Something obviously chased them out of Tasmania but at the moment I can only imagine it was their own relationship breakdown. Certainly they left Tasmania separately and Isaiah was "overseas" (ie I know Isaiah was in Melbourne by then) before Christiana left.
5. Should there be some sort of records relating to their stay in Forcett - Local taxes paid etc?
6. This couple seemed to be able to wander around changing their surname at will, things were so different at the beginning of the 20th century... I know Christiana started life as Whitfield, was then I'Anson through marriage, reverted to Whitfield for her passage to NZ, then used Isaiah's surname of Oldbury, seemingly used North for a short period in Tasmania and then seems to have become Christina Vernon and finally becoming Christiana Maydwell. Isaiah stuck with Oldbury for quite a while but once the decree absolute was issued awarding William I'Anson £1500 he seems to have followed Christiana's path. Obviously he didn't take on the Maydell name as they had parted ways by then. He did finally return to the UK as John Wilson and was so successful at hiding away that his death certificate was issued in that name, his real identity only coming out when his will was discovered in his real name.
-
Here's part of the historic deed 12_2480 that describes the 50 acres that were sold bordering land owned by Daniel Lane and John Bingham and Gilling Brook (Creek) The earlier deeds also spoke of the other 150 acres bordering land owned by Gangell, Peter Joysey (Joicey on the map)
-
On the County land grant map layer on thelist map I've outlined in red the likely 200 acres that the Vernon's purchased
-
There was a Jno. Vernon and a Mrs John Vernon in the Tasmanian Post Office Directories who lived at 52 High Street, Sandy Bay recorded through 1900-1909 They don't appear to have anything to do with the Vernons from Forcett based on this memorial notice from 1918 - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11387775?searchTerm=52%20high%20street%2C%20sandy%20bay
I can't find any other references to John and Christina Vernon in Tasmania apart from the land documents? So their footprint must have been miniscule in the big scheme of things?
-
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10052016#
The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860 - 1954) Tue 1 Feb 1910
Page 2
COUNTRY NEWS.
FORCETT.
A somewhat destructive fire has taken
place at Ringwood, the residence of Mr.
Vernon. The stable and adjacent sheds
were burnt to the ground, together with
a quantity of hay contained therein.
Mr. Vernon had been burning off some
scrub, and it is surmised that, the day
being hot and very windy, a piece of
burning bark was blown on to the roof
of a shed, and so started the fire.
-
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10053064?searchTerm=%22ringwood%22%20%22forcett%22%20%22vernon%22#
The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860 - 1954) Fri 11 Feb 1910
Page 8
Advertising
FARM AT FORCETT.
A. G. WEBSTER AND SON
Have received instructions from Mr.
Jno. Vernon to offer by auction, at their
Rooms, Liverpool-street, on above date,
at 12 o'clock, noon,
HIS VERY DESIRABLE FARM,
RINGWOOD, situated at Forcett,
and containing 230 acres, 160 acree of
winch are cultivation, the balance being
good grazing Land.
The property is well fenced, and is one
of the best watered farms in-the district.
The fences are good (many of them Trew),
and the soil is of a good chocolate and
black loam.
The improvements consist of a very
comfortable Stone House, which has
been recently renovated at considerable
expense, ½ acre orchard, and vegetable
garden.
Ringwood is situated 1 mile from For-
cett Post Office and School, 3 miles from
Lewisham wharf, and 5 miles from
Sorell.
The present owner is shortly returning
to England, and intends to SELL.
-
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10054798?searchTerm=%22ringwood%22%20%22forcett%22%20%22mrs.%20vernon%22#
The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860 - 1954) Tue 1 Mar 1910
Page 8
Advertising
WEDNESDAY, March 2, 1910.
CLEARING SALE AT FORCETT.
ROBERTS AND CO. LIMITED
Have been instructed by Mrs. J. Vernon
to sell on the property. RINGWOOD,
FORCETT, on WEDNESDAY, March
2, at 12 o'clock,
THE FOLLOWING STOCK, IMPLE-
MEN'S, AND FURNITURE:
75 4 and 6-TOOTH EWES AND
LAMBS
23 Weathers
Cow in milk
Draught horse Clyde 7yrs., by Bet-
ter Times
Draught horse Tom, 3yrs., by Sanlis-
bury Prince
Half-bred draught mare, Jess, 4yrs.
1 Half-bred mare, rising 3yrs., by
Young Charmer. thoroughly
broken to harness
1 Chestnut filly, by Young Charmer
All these horses can be highly recommended.
Quantity of young poultry, including a
turkeys, geese, ducks, and fowls.
Spring dray, spring-tooth harrows,
swingle trees d.f. plough, plough har-
ness, etc., etc. .
Also,
STACK OF HAY, about 8 tons
Quantity of potatoes
HOUSEHOLD FURNITURE, comprising
the contents of PEA WING and DINING
ROOMS, 4 bedrooms, and kitchen
and scullery. Most of the furniture is
nearly new, and is only being sold owing
to Mrs. Vernon's intended departure for
England.
LUNCHEON PROVIDED.
-
Oh that is amazing, thanks so much for that research! I can't believe that information is there, you must have super-sleuthing skills, both of you! That really does look as if that's them too. It still makes me think this is really Isaiah and Christiana, incognito. There is so much there it's going to take me a while to digest but the fire I suspected had been a problem is mentioned and then the offer for sale. I wonder if it actually ALL sold rather than the 50 acres I can find a contract for? They certainly weren't returning to England, Isaiah didn't want to show his face there as he had Christiana's ex-husband chasing him for huge divorce settlement...
-
I've had chance to look at this info now. It's so helpful. But, as usual, one answer leads to another dozen questions!
It's narrowed the timescales right down so I can now look at passenger lists and try to find them heading off to Melbourne, Isaiah just before 2 March 1910 and Christiana just afterwards. I think I need to really search those land registry archives too, to see what happened to the farm. I think the documents for the 50 acres may be the clue, if they sold those acres for a nominal five shillings then there is every chance the same person bought the rest. I would imagine that if she was selling up the stock and implements on 2 March then the farm must have sold at the 11 February auction. The sale contract was dated April 1910, which would all fit...
The fire wasn't a huge affair and I don't think that would have made them suddenly decide to sell up, and the time scale between the fire and the auction is probably too tight anyway - it was already being planned. So there's another mystery. I know they didn't go back to the UK either, despite what the sales info says.
-
On your other thread you said that Isaiah went back to his farm in NZ after leaving Tasmania. If that's correct, do you know which alias did he go by?
-
One more comment. It seems the contract numbered 12/2454 does actually show the disposal of the original 200 acres so at least we have one question answered. The copy quality is really poor for that one but going through it slowly gives the information.
-
PatLac, he used his real surname of Oldbury according to the Electoral Roll/Census info in 1911. That was the name he had used when he bought the farm, ie before he realised that William I'Anson intended to sue him for damages. I'm now wondering what spurred them on to leave Tasmania after only being there for a year and investing in a big property. I'm sure it wasn't the fire, that was relatively minor...
-
I have no idea how the electoral enrollment worked/works in Australia, but could he had been enrolled before he went to England?
I thought this was him going to London in 1910... I've noticed that he is mentioned in the newspaper ads in February but in March they only mentioned Mrs. Vernon.
WILSON JOHN MR 70 PERICLES II 1910 MAR LONDON VIA PORTS
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/29A1EC23-F7F0-11E9-AE98-3D2032EF8048?image=131
And returning?
WILSON JOHN 71 1911 APR PERSIC MORGAN W F
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/42DD3C17-F96C-11E9-AE98-9587A208E708?image=255
-
Could not find them in early Tasmanian Electoral Rolls. Women had the vote from 1903 in Australia. No deaths recorded --- still looking for deaths.
Regards
clancam37
I have no idea how the electoral enrollment worked/works in Australia, but could he had been enrolled before he went to England?
I thought this was him going to London in 1910... I've noticed that he is mentioned in the newspaper ads in February but in March they only mentioned Mrs. Vernon.
WILSON JOHN MR 70 PERICLES II 1910 MAR LONDON VIA PORTS
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/29A1EC23-F7F0-11E9-AE98-3D2032EF8048?image=131
And returning?
WILSON JOHN 71 1911 APR PERSIC MORGAN W F
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/42DD3C17-F96C-11E9-AE98-9587A208E708?image=255
-
Now there's an interesting thought! A whole new set of ideas... I had just mentioned to a co-researcher almost as a joke "What if they really were going back to England, just like they said in the contracts and sale info?"
There was obviously some reason why they sold up in Tasmania after only being there for around a year and investing in that farm. The fire was almost certainly too minor to make them want to leave. I know Isaiah was supposed to meet Christiana as she arrived from Tasmania and her youngest son Basil said years later that they slipped down the crew gangway to avoid him but that Basil saw him waiting on the dock. It could be possible that they had a passage booked back to England and she decided this was a perfect time to strike out on her own. On that basis he could have carried on with his planned trip but come back later. I'll have to look at the timings and see what went on at Empire Bridge Farm. I haven't looked hard yet for sale details. He DID try to sell it before they went to Tasmania but as far as I know it didn't meet reserve (and that would fit with him still being there in 1911).
To be honest there was no reason why they would go to Melbourne anyway, other than to take the ship back to England. Once she didn't go, was that the point she decided to strike out on her own to Sea Lake? It just gets more and more complex. Thanks for the wonderful research!
-
Do you know if he paid William I'Anson the £1,500?
-
No the money was never paid over. I believe this is why isaiah was still using an alias right up until the time he died.
£1500 at that time would have been a substantial sum for William I'Anson but he went on to live a modest life, retiring from the pub trade early. He appears in the 1911 and 1921 census but then disappears. I have not been any details of his death. Several William I'Ansons who died were born around the same time as him but I've followed each one and none of them match.
-
Just a cross reference that Ringwood was the right property. In 1912 the Beckitt’s announced the birth of a son at Ringwood - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10257422?searchTerm=Ringwood%2C%20Forcett The mother was Martha Francesca - https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fNAME_INDEXES$002f0$002fNAME_INDEXES:2107102/ada?qu=Beckitt&qf=NI_INDEX%09Record+type%09Births%09Births&qf=PUBDATE%09Year%091910-1921%091910-1921&d=ent%3A%2F%2FNAME_INDEXES%2F0%2FNAME_INDEXES%3A2107102%7ENAME_INDEXES%7E0&h=8 and her name is all over the lands titles deeds?
-
PatLac I've looked more closely at those steamship records. I'm not sure how they work but does the fact his name was crossed through on the return journey mean he didn't actually sail, or does that signify something else? I don't have his actual dob so the ages (70 and 71) can't really be used to verify anything too closely at the moment. He was baptised on 28 June 1840 and the 1841 census said he was one year old so I'm thinking he was born in May or June 1840...
The return sailing seems to show that John Wilson disembarked in Adelaide which wouldn't really fit with Isaiah either, and as I believe he had nowhere particular to go in Australia (ie he had no idea where Christiana had gone so searching for her would be pointless...) he would probably have done what they did first time and sailed directly to NZ. Also the first journey seems to suggest that John Wilson travelled Third Class, again not something I would expect as they used Cabin class when they first sailed.
So at the moment the jury is definitely out as to whether this is actually Isaiah. Also he was so paranoid about avoiding paying up that £1500 I would be surprised if he put himself in a position to be traced in the UK, even using a fake name. I still have quite a few thoughts to follow through and I'm also hoping to hear from Christiana's great grandson soon as he may have found some more information in his mother's recollections. I think initially I need to follow through the idea of whether or not you would need to be physically present on a certain date to fill in the Electoral Roll paperwork in New Zealand and then look for sales details for Empire Bridge Farm. I'm really bemused about why someone would buy Ringwood, furnish and equip the house and farm etc and then leave after just over a year later. There are still so many oddities in the whole story...
-
His DOB is definitely May or June 1840, given that there are only 3 registered births:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1840 (>99%)
Oldbury Isaiah W Bromwich 18 543
Births Jun 1862 (>99%)
OLDBURY Isaiah West Bromwich 6b 694
Births Jun 1877 (>99%)
OLDBURY Isaiah W. Bromwich 6b 922
I have noticed that his name is crossed but I don't know what it means. Third class could have been one way of avoiding being seen by any acquaintances?
I think he wouldn't publish a lie in the sales ads given that his neighbours (and potential buyers) would know that he was going back to England.
-
..... I know that they left Tasmania in 1910. Christiana travelled to Sea Lake in Victoria without Isaiah knowing where she had gone and he eventually returned to his farm in New Zealand.
* What evidence do you have that Isaiah OLDBURY returned to NZ, and specifically to his farm, after 1910 ?
Sale of Isaiah OLDBURY's property in New Zealand > acreage at Chaney's ("Empire Bridge") and a property at Tuam Street, Christchurch, took place in March, 1909.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TS19090306.2.64
..... in New Zealand and then look for sales details for Empire Bridge Farm.
The following appears to be the first of the "for sale" notices >
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT19080529.2.93.1
... with further advertisments appearing from November 1908 ...
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT19081104.2.78.4
..... I think initially I need to follow through the idea of whether or not you would need to be physically present on a certain date to fill in the Electoral Roll paperwork in New Zealand ....
NZ Electoral Rolls :
Isaiah OLDBURY's first appearance on an electoral roll on NZ was > on the "Kaiapoi *Supplementary roll (Canterbury)" of 1908 : [* This was a roll made up of persons who'd not enrolled in time to be included in the Main Kaiapoi roll, before it went to print. ]
It does not necessarily follow that just because Isaiah OLDBURY's name appears on the 1911 roll at same place, that he was actually residing in New Zealand. Often names were carried over to a later roll for a variety of reasons (and even deceased persons might be included).
One should therefore not place too much reliance of these rolls being absolutely correct - they're a useful tool but it's wise that they are used in conjuction with other information. They are also NOT a census substitute (NZ does not have published census records available.)
~ Lu
-
Thank you Lucy2, that's an interesting thought you've put forward. I think we were relying totally on that Electoral Roll information and the fact we found no details of an actual sale. I'm chatting with someone else who has looked at this before to see what else we have so I'll report back! I've started looking at the records in Archives New Zealand but haven't come up with anything yet. The Tasmanian records were so helpful so I'm hoping I can find something eventually.
According to a copy of his Probate, his address was shown as his last one ie Torrington Place, London BUT it also refers to him as late of 18 Napier St Fitzroy, Victoria. I've asked to see a copy of his actual Will in case that tells me more about why that is mentioned. Also the date of the Will might be interesting. But it must have been written after he arrived in the UK in 1919. He named an executor, Robert McCutcheon Edgar, who I believe was still in Australia which is interesting, although he declined to act.
-
There was a Robert McCutcheon Edgar at 10 High street Kew between 1915 and 1920 (Sands & McDougall's) who is mentioned on Trove
The Ballarat Star (Vic. : 1865 - 1924) Wed 21 Jun 1922
Page 6
NEW JUSTICES.
NEW JUSTICES.
Melbourne, Tuesday.
The Executive Council to-day approved
of the appointment of the following jus
tices: —George Robinson, Jnr., Warrackna
beal, Northern bailiwick; Charles Cooper
Hunt, Stawel), Western bailiwick; and Ro
bert McCutcheon Edgar, Kew...
The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957) Thu 7 Jun 1956
Page 20
Family Notices
EDGAR - On June 6, Isabella
Mary, beloved wife of the late
Robert Mccutcheon Edgar, loving
mother of Frank (Second A.I.F.,
deceased) Noel, and Isobel (Mrs.
E. L. Weller).
Death Record:
EDGAR
Robert McCutcheon
Death
Eleanor
FINLAY
EDGAR Robert
BANGOR IRELAND
KEW
80
1941
10114/1941