RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Joanna Tolhurst on Thursday 15 September 05 09:01 BST (UK)
-
My Great great grandfather James Graham was a seaman on HMS Minotaur in May 1869 age 25 at Portsmouth when he got married.
I am unable to locate him in 1861 or 1871 or 1881 with numerous variations of wildcards. His wife, my great great grandmother Jessie nee Clarke was at 10 Cecil Grove Portsmouth in 1871 described as a seaman's wife.
By 1876 he had joined the coastguard and they had moved to West Mersea Essex where 9 daughters were born.
In 1891 he is finally in a census as chief boatman coastguard age 46 born Canada British subject. In 1901 the family is at 38 Goodwood Road Portsmouth where James is a naval pensioner blind age 57 born Kingston Canada.
I'm waiting patiently for his naval record to go onlines at Natiional Archives. Meanwhile any information about HMS Minotaur would be appreciated. Is it likely that he would have been on the same ship for a number of years or did seaman move from ship to ship?
-
Hi Jot
Here's some pictures of the ship!!
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hms_minotaur.htm
Annie ::) ::)
-
1870
Name James Graham
Birth Year 1834
Age 36
Birthplace Canada E
Home Stillwater Washington Minnesota
Gender Male
Roll M593_12 Image 448
Thought this James Graham may be a possibility!!
Married but no wife with him - looks like working around people working with boats - but I can't read his occupation - maybe you'd like to look yourself!!
Annie
-
Thanks Annie.
Since James was on the Minotaur in May 1869, he may well be in the pictures from 1868!!!!
I don't think that could be him in Washington. His wife Jessie was Portsmouth Hants born and bred, the marriage was in Portsmouth 1869 and she was there in 1871. I guess James was at sea somewhere since I've tried every possible wild card in the 1871 census. In 1881 Jessie and the first 4 daughters are in west mersea essex at the coastguard station and again no sign of James anywhere.
I think I may have found his death in Dec qtr 1906 and will order the certificate. A date of death may lead to an obit. or funeral notice or something in the local Portsmouth papers.
My Nana had a story of James' father having done something to give him the Freddom of America which enabled his children and grandchildren to emigrate. I know one of James' daughters and her husband went to Canada, and another went to America.
Jo
-
The Times, Monday, Oct 03, 1859; pg. 7; Issue 23427; col E
- a note that the officers and crew of the Minotaur, at Sheerness, have changed over to the Cumberland, all the officers recieving their new commissions to the latter-named ship.
Who was his father and what was his father's occupation on the marriage certificate? Kingston is in Ontario, there is a Kingston Branch of the OGS:
http://web.ctsolutions.com/ogskingston/
-
James' father was also James Graham, and on James junior's marriage certificate in 1869 he was a silversmith.
I haven't yet found a James Graham silversmith in 1871 or 1861.
My Nana always said that her grandfather had come to Portsmouth from Scotland.
-
Found service record from 1872!!
Date and period of CS engagement - 26 April 1872 10 years 19887B
I presume this means that James joined the navy in 1861 and that 19887B will lead me to the record of service prior to 1872 in ADM 139 at national Archives.
Place of birth is confirmed as Kingston Canada, 27 June 1843
Ships served on:
Hercules 1 Jan 1873 - 31 March 1874
Penelope 1 Apr 1874 - 15 Apr 1874
Penelope coastguard 16 Apr 1874 - 21 May 1889
Hotspur coastguard 21 May 1889 - 30 June 1893
-
Hi JoT
A service record from 1872 would indicate that he joined the Royal Navy in 1872 .............. for a period of 10 years ???
I am not sure what the 19887B is?
Casalguidi
-
checked on the national archives website again:
"It is important to note that if a man entered before 1873, he will have an additional service record in the series ADM 139, which is not online. Also, some men may have in effect have two accounts of service within ADM 188; firstly in the register and then continued in the Continuation Books ('new register'). We have linked these together, so both are attached to the same man's entry. "
" If the serviceman entered before 1873 the entry may also have a CS number and their earlier record of service will be in ADM 139 ."
19887B must be this CS number.
-
in the remarks column of ADM 188/13, the first remark is:
T (or F). E. 1857 Not sure of 1st letter, could be something else as there is a T and F elsewhere.
Any suggestions?
Also under rating, &c.:
P.6.2cl.
then T.M.
then boatman when he moved to the coastguard.
Also what are "G.C. badges worn"?
-
Successful visit to the PRO uncovered James Graham full naval record from the age of 14 in 1857.
CS 19887B was his record from 26 April 1872 to 31 Dec 1872. He joined on the Duke of Wellington as 2nd captain D Dec, moving to the Hercules where he ended up as Captain of the mast.
CS35078 was an earlier record from 30 Sept 1857 when he joined on the Blenheim as a 14 year old boy. He signed his name with quite a flourish. His character was good and very good throughout. After the Blenheim he served on the Hannibal 1858/59, Conqueror 1859, Iris 1859 -1861, Orpheus 1861 - 1863, Miranda 1863, Curacoa 1863 -1867, Minotaur 1867 - 1870 and finally Trafalgar 1870 - 1872 before rejoining on the Duke of Wellington . One of my grandmother's cousin's stories is right as he did serve in New Zealand as the Iris, Orpheus, Miranda, Curacoa were all at the Australian station during the years he was on them according to the Navy lists.
Where to look next for his father though I don't know? All I have so far is his name - also James Graham, and his occupation in 1869- a silversmith.
-
With some internet searching, I've just realised that James was one of the few survivors of the wreak of HMS Orpheus at Manukau Harbour New Zealand on February 7, 1863.
-
Hi JoT,
James Graham was my Great Grandfather. My Grandma was his second youngest daughter, Clara.
Grandma always thought that he came from Kingston Jamaica but Canada seems much more likely.
Her story was that James's father had been chased out of Scotland for sheep stealing. We don't know a year or have any corroborating evidence for this.
She also used to say that he was returning to Scotland to claim his inheritance as his father had been a Laird but he was shipwrecked and lost all his papers.
Your research is much more advanced than mine and the shipwreck story seems to have been borne out with HMS Orpheus but I don't know about the Laird bit..
I'm visiting West Mersea in September to see if I can find anything in the museum or the County Archive in Chelmsford. I'll let you know if I find anything.
Regards,
Martyn
-
Hi Martyn,
Since I posted on James Graham all those years ago my research has discovered much of his story, his father's and his grandfather's, both of whom were also James Graham. If you private message me your email I can give you all the details.
Jo
-
Hi Jo,
The system says that I'm not allowed to send private messages.
I would be very interested in learning about James Graham.
How do I increase my privilege level to send private messages?
Regards,
Martyn.
PS You can delete this entry once read, it just clutters things up.
-
Martyn,
New members have to make 2 or 3 posts before they are able to access the private message system. If you just acknowledge this message, you should then be able to use the system.
Good luck
Nell