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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Macushla on Tuesday 10 June 25 10:48 BST (UK)

Title: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: Macushla on Tuesday 10 June 25 10:48 BST (UK)
Hello everyone,

I am researching my Rhodes family in Yorkshire.
I'm trying to decipher the name of where they lived from the census of 1851. I thought it was Birstall Church, Borstall Church, but I can't figure it out.
Can anyone help please?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: Gillg on Tuesday 10 June 25 10:57 BST (UK)
Brithall or Bathall, maybe?  I don't think it can be Birstall, looking at the handwriting, which is a shame, because there actually is a place near Bradford called Birstall.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Tuesday 10 June 25 11:16 BST (UK)
What are the neighbouring addresses on the census form?
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: Tickettyboo on Tuesday 10 June 25 11:29 BST (UK)
It really helps if we can see the whole page to be able to compare the writing. As its a census, if you can give us the census ref (Piece/Folio/page) or the details of someone in the household we can look it up and perhaps get a better idea

Boo
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Tuesday 10 June 25 11:30 BST (UK)
I predict Birstall.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: Macushla on Tuesday 10 June 25 11:57 BST (UK)
It's from the 1851 census; I'm not sure if this helps?
John RHODES (wife: Nancy RHODES) Gomersal, Yorkshire
HO107/2323/113 p 27

Thank you
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: Tickettyboo on Tuesday 10 June 25 12:05 BST (UK)
Thanks, that really helps. Yes I agree with Alan its Birstall Church.

If you are viewing this on Ancestry, the filmstrip shows this is image 28 of 31. Change that 28 to 1 and you can see the enumerators description of the area he covered. The writing on there is much easier to read and Birstall Church is clearly written.

Boo
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Tuesday 10 June 25 12:34 BST (UK)
Map view 1854 6 inch.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/102345001#zoom=6.0&lat=6206&lon=6900&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/102345001#zoom=6.0&lat=6206&lon=6900&layers=BT)

The itinerary mentions Smithies (lower right) and after all of the Birstall Church entries there are workhouse entries (middle left), so Birstall Church must be the area around St Peter's Church?

Note that it is spelled Birstal on this map.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Tuesday 10 June 25 12:48 BST (UK)
The tithe map of 1848 shows a group of houses immediately south of the church. On the apportionment one of the names is a John Rhodes who occupies 32 acres, including "Rectory House, garden and Homestead" which is one of the houses mentioned.

Sorry, I can’t post an image due to copyright.

But note that the Rectory is labelled on the map that I linked to.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: hanes teulu on Tuesday 10 June 25 12:53 BST (UK)
Several newspaper items about the Black Bull Inn at Birstal Church
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: Macushla on Wednesday 11 June 25 04:49 BST (UK)
Thank you all so much for your help. I thought it was Birstal(l) Church but I was confused as John Rhodes was not a Minister or Rector. Much appreciated.
Tickettyboo thanks for the hint re Ancestry, that will come in very handy.
hanes telu, may I please ask where you found the newspaper articles?
AlanBoyd, are you able to tell me where I might be able to look at the tithe map?

Again, thanks to all for your help. Very excited to learn more about my Yorkshire ancestry.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Wednesday 11 June 25 06:40 BST (UK)
PM sent
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 11 June 25 07:52 BST (UK)
Newspapers are online at British Newspaper Archive (BNA) or FindMyPast.
You can search BNA free, which delivers an extract of any item found. But to view the original requires subscription/pay.
Dewsbury Reporter, 16 Apr 1870
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Thursday 12 June 25 07:13 BST (UK)
Seems that the farm was called Rectory Farm, and that John Rhodes was there until his death.

22 January 1881: Dewsbury Reporter
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Thursday 12 June 25 07:19 BST (UK)
This suggests that John Rhodes had died by 1862, so the previous item doesn't relate to his recent (in 1881) death.

30 April 1862: Blackburn Standard

Quote
On the 24th instant, at the Parish Church, Halifax, by the Ven. Archdeacon Musgrave, D. D: Robert, eldest son of the late Mr. John Rhodes, Rectory House, Birstal, Yorkshire, to Mary Anne, youngest daughter of the late Mr. William Fred. Highley, of Halifax.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Thursday 12 June 25 07:28 BST (UK)
His probate is dated 23rd January 1861 and gives his death as 14th December 1859, "..late of Birstal Church in the township of Gomersal in the county of York, Land and Mineral Surveyor Farmer and Coal Merchant." Mentioned are wife Nancy Rhodes and son Robert Rhodes Land and Mineral Surveyor.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Thursday 12 June 25 07:38 BST (UK)
From the Scarborough Gazette, 14 October 1880, in a List Of Visitors. Mrs Rhodes, Rectory House, Birstall staying at no. 9 New Queen Street. The house is run by a Mrs Nash and there are two other ladies staying there: a Mrs Prince of Lowmoor and a Mrs Roberts of Cleckheaton. All three are newly arrived that week.

Lowmoor and Cleckheaton are close enough to Gomersal that they could be friends who were visiting together.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Thursday 12 June 25 07:42 BST (UK)
25 September 1888: Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer
Quote
RHODES,—At Laburnham Cottage, Birstal, aged 82, Nancy, relict of the late John Rhodes of Rectory House. — Will be interred Birstal Church to-morrow (Wednesday), 26th inst., at 12 o'clock. Friends please accept this intimation.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Thursday 12 June 25 08:34 BST (UK)
In the 1841 census entry for John and Nancy Rhodes (address simply Birstall) there is a Sarah Rhodes, 70. In 1851 John's age is 45 so dob ~ 1806 and his place of birth is West Ardsley.

There is a baptism at West Ardsley 17th September 1805
John son of Israel and Sarah Rhodes Yeoman
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: MollyC on Thursday 12 June 25 08:46 BST (UK)
Quote
Seems that the farm was called Rectory Farm, and that John Rhodes was there until his death.
22 January 1881: Dewsbury Reporter

It is possible for the executors to have continued to run the farm business for 20+ years before winding it up in 1881.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Thursday 12 June 25 08:48 BST (UK)
Thanks MollyC, I’m a complete novice when it comes to things like that.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: MollyC on Thursday 12 June 25 08:58 BST (UK)
I conclude this only because I have come across businesses named eg "John Smith (Exors)" which appear in directories for years.  There may have been some tax advantage if the family wished to continue the business.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Thursday 12 June 25 10:00 BST (UK)
1822 Baines Directory West Yorkshire Yorkshire, West Riding, under West Ardsley
Sarah Rhodes, coal merchant
Israel & William Rhodes, corn millers
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: MollyC on Thursday 12 June 25 17:17 BST (UK)
I think you will find the Baines' directory is West RIDING, and I make no apology for continuing to remind people that West Yorkshire is a NEW county, so does not merit much air-time on Rootschat!  I blame Ancestry, who have got it all wrong.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Thursday 12 June 25 18:22 BST (UK)
Yes, I thoughtlessly transcribed the Ancestry information.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: MollyC on Thursday 12 June 25 19:46 BST (UK)
I forgive you Alan.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: AlanBoyd on Thursday 12 June 25 20:04 BST (UK)
That’s more than I deserve.
Title: Re: Yorkshire place name - help please
Post by: Macushla on Saturday 14 June 25 11:47 BST (UK)
Again, thank you all so much for your responses and assistance; esp. to Alan for the maps and emails.
MollyC the info re executors running the estate is very interesting and may be accurate here.
I'm always amazed and thankful for the effort RootsChat members will put in to help others. Many thanks. I'm off down rabbit holes chasing various Rhodes family members.
This is both the best and worst possible hobby for my ADHD  ::) :)