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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Rowan Tree on Saturday 07 June 25 22:36 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm wondering if I'm missing something here...
I'm looking into:
Private William GREENHALGH
6th Bn Cheshire Regiment (2524)
Transferred to 477th Agricultural Company, Labour Corps (395649)
On William's Commonwealth War Graves Commission headstone it says he was a member of the 10th Battalion, Lincolnshire Regiment (395649), transferred to 477th Agricultural Company, Labour Corps.
I don't THINK he was ever with the Lincolnshire Regiment.
In a British War Medal and Victory Medal Award Roll, the soldier above William GREENHALGH, Charles Sykes (27828), was in the Lincolnshire Regiment, though.
Is this a gravestone cock-up, or am I missing something?
While I'm here... I've found two dates of death for William GREENHALGH. Most sources gives his date of death as 8th December 1918, but a pension ledger and index card gives his date of death as 16th January 1919. The card appears to refer to the correct William GREENHALGH as it names his widow and children.
A bit of extra background on William:
Born c. 1886.
He married Jane Hannah LANE in 1912 in Stockport.
His address was 83 Higher Hillgate, Stockport.
He died in a VAD Hospital in Bournemouth.
If anyone thinks they can shed any light on this one, I'd be very grateful.
Cheers, Rowan Tree :)
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His date of death is recorded in the register of soldiers' effects as December 1918, and he is in the middle of a load of other deaths from November/December that year
I haven't got a Fold 3 sub to look at the pension index, but I've managed to zoom in on a thumbnail on A* and it looks they've recorded an admin date when a form was received in Jan 1919 as his date of death, when elsewhere on the card the date of death is recorded as Dec 1918. Cause influenza and pneumonia
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His date of death is recorded in the register of soldiers' effects as December 1918, and he is in the middle of a load of other deaths from November/December that year
I haven't got a Fold 3 sub to look at the pension index, but I've managed to zoom in on a thumbnail on A* and it looks they've recorded an admin date when a form was received in Jan 1919 as his date of death, when elsewhere on the card the date of death is recorded as Dec 1918. Cause influenza and pneumonia
Thanks, that helps solve that mystery.
And the cause of death is new information.
I appreciate your help :)
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Hi,
You might find this of general interest.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/about-our-records/
ATB
Simon
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Thanks, Simon 👍
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You are correct, he wasn't in the Lincs.
10th. Btn. Lincs. men had the prefix no 10/ your man doesn't.
6th. Btn. Cheshire men had numbers in this range.
ie. 2545 joined Sept. 1914.
The 10th. Lincs. went overseas in Jan. 1916 your man had the
15 Star with a disembarkation date of 17/12/15.
The 6th. Btn. Cheshires were in France at the time.
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His date of death is recorded in the register of soldiers' effects as December 1918, and he is in the middle of a load of other deaths from November/December that year
I haven't got a Fold 3 sub to look at the pension index, but I've managed to zoom in on a thumbnail on A* and it looks they've recorded an admin date when a form was received in Jan 1919 as his date of death, when elsewhere on the card the date of death is recorded as Dec 1918. Cause influenza and pneumonia
Agreed - the Ancestry Typist preparing the Summary page for the Dependents Pension Card incorrectly typed the Notification for Receipt as his Death - the Card correctly shows 8 December 1918
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The CWGC Headstone shows Pte 43648 W Greenhalgh of 10th Lincolnshire 8 December 1918 age 31 which agrees their Record but there are No Medal Records for that number or Soldiers Effects
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Pte 2524 William Greenhalgh of 6th Cheshire Regt received his Pip Squeak and Wilfred in 1920 per the Roll Cards he never sent them back
and was at Home with his Parents Samuel and Eliza Hannah at 23 Hallam Street Stockport
- Single aged 35 and a Cabinet Maker
He was unaware of the Error on his MIC
There is an Ancestry Tree that has his incorrect Birth Index but all his Census 1891 1901 1911 but had him Married with Children and not on his Parents 1921 Census
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The mix up is due to two William Greenhalgh's living in Stockport, both born about 1887.
They are both on the 1911 census separately.
One at 22 Hampshaw Lane Stockport, a hatters presser
The second at 23 Hallam St Stockport, a joiner
The mix up appears on the IWM, Lives of the WW1:
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/1453568
Tony
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His Widow was awarded a War Gratuity of £13 to December 1918
which calculate to Served in Army for 28 months - ?
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I must admit the gratuity has thrown me as well.
His Roll states he went overseas Dec. 1915 hence the
15 Star.
Another mystery.
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Snippets from newspapers
Death notice which also confirms he died at the Military Hospital in BOURNE in Lincolnshire (not Bournemouth as the first post said)
https://www.newspapers.com/article/stockport-express-greenhalgh-death-noti/174084744/
and In Memoriam Notices placed on the anniversary of his death
https://www.newspapers.com/article/stockport-express-greenhalgh-in-memoriam/174143778/
Plus his death was registered in Bourne Civil Registration District, Q4 1918, 7a 854
Boo
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His Widow would have taken the Children to his CWGC Headstone locally churchyard after his Death and I am sure she would have pointed out to the CWGC that he was never in the Lincolnshire Regt unless he was.
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Yes that's certainly a possibility.
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Wow Boo
That's a Huge Help
It solves which William Greenhalgh he was born 1886 Stockport
Cheers
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Tonepad and Boo found the Correct William Greenhalgh who was born June Quarter 1886 Stockport
to Hatter Albert Greenhalgh and Ellen Turner
lived at 22 Hempshaw Lane Stockport -
Ellen Died
so Albert remarried Edith Annie Mace
William Died December 1918 Bourne Lincolnshire where he Presumably was Conscripted to-
but his Body was brought back to Stockport for Burial locally.
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As an aside 43648 belonged to a Frederick Drewitt 10/Lincs.
There is a possibility he first went overseas with the 6/Cheshires
got transferred to the 10/Lincs. but with a different (but maybe similar) number
& finally the LC.
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You guys are AWESOME!!!
Thank you so much for your help and insight. My head is spinning a little trying to place all this new information in my mind correctly.
Just to clarify... There were 2 men born in 1886, in Stockport, named William Greenhalgh.
I'll distinguish between to 2 by using their mother's maiden names.
1886 Q2 William (Turner) Greenhalgh
Son of Alfred Greenhalgh and Ellen Turner
On the 1911 census, a single William (Turner) Greenhalgh is living with his father, Alfred, and stepmother, Edith, at 22 Hempshaw Lane, Stockport. William is a Hatters Presser.
William (Turner) Greenhalgh died 08/12/1918 in a VAD hospital in Bourne, Lincolnshire.
1886 Q3 William (Astington) Greenhalgh (d/o/b 09/06/1886)
Son of Samuel Greenhalgh and Eliza Hannah Astington
William (Astington) Greenhalgh is single, alive and on the 1921 census living with his parents, Samuel and Eliza Hannah, at 23 Hallam Street, Stockport. William is a cabinet maker.
In 1912 Jane Hannah Lane married one of the William's. As Jane Hannah is a widow in 1921, and William (Astington) Greenhalgh is alive in 1921, Jane Hannah must have married William (Turner) Greenhalgh.
Children born before William's death:
Frances 1912
Annie 1914
Doris 1916
Hilda 1918
MODIFIED: William (Turner) Greenhalgh had sisters named Frances and Annie.
On the 1921 census, a widowed Jane Hannah is living with her children in her parents home, 83 Higher Hillgate, Stockport. Jane Hannah's father, Thomas, and one of her brothers, Thomas, were hatters.
Now, which military record relates to which man? I'm still trying to untangle the military side of things. Can someone clarify that for me? Apologies for struggling.
Many thanks, Rowan Tree :)
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William Greenhalgh who married Jane Lane his Parents were Albert Greenhalgh and Ellen Turner his GRO Index was Stockport June Quarter 1886 Vol 8a page 65 Mother's Maiden Name = Turner
Ellen née Turner Died so Arthur Remarried in 1902 Edith Annie Mace - they had Two Daughters
Annie born June Quarter 1903
Frances born June Quarter 1905
Because William now had a Half Sister he named his first Daughter with Jane in 1912 after Frances
Looks like as Jane received £13 as a War Gratuity he must have been Transferred as 43648 into the Lincolnshire Regt though he lived in Stockport
When William was Transferred from the Lincolnshire into Labour Corps as 395649 his Lincolnshire number became spare and was reallocated to Frederick John Drewitt who as Pte 2036 of South Staffordshire Regt was Transferred to the 10th Lincolnshire and given spare number 43648
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Thanks, that's superb.
Did both of the William Greenhalgh's get transferred to the Labour Corps?
I'm looking at a medal index card that shows both the Cheshire Regiment and the Labour Corps for William Greenhalgh, 2524 & 395649.
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I'm looking at a Service Medal Award Roll that says the William Greenhalgh who died in 1918 had a date of disembarkation of 17/12/1915. Is this incorrect?
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In order to qualify for the 15 Star he would have gone overseas during that year.
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I'm looking at a Service Medal Award Roll that says the William Greenhalgh who died in 1918 had a date of disembarkation of 17/12/1915. Is this incorrect?
No
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I'm following you.
So, did both of the Williams get transferred to the labour corps? One from the Cheshire Regiment and the other from the Lincolnshire Regiment?
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Does this clarify or complicate things...? ???
MODIFIED:
Taken from The Stockport Express, date 16th January 1919.
I don't believe Jane Hannah, William's widow, is mentioned because she had children out of wedlock after her husband died (and was in the Greenhalgh families bad graces as a consequence). I'm not certain that her third and fourth child were her husbands given their dates of birth (but I'm not certain). After William died, Jane Hannah had 5 more children. They all had the surname of Greenhalgh.
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That means the Army got his War Gratuity Calculated wrong and everything else is OK now.
Strange the Roll Medal Card for his British War Medal and Victory Medal doesn't list the Lincolnshire Regt service after the Cheshire Regt
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(https://i.postimg.cc/WzDtMY6c/doc5483362.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Thanks for the Grave Registration Details. What does this tell us?
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;)
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;)
I don't understand.
I can't see a sharp or larger version of the image you shared.
MODIFIED: I've realised the image you shared if off the CWGC website. I'm now able to look at a bigger/sharper version of the image you shared. I still don't understand what you were trying to communicate to me, though. I'm autistic. It's possible I'm missing something subtle. If you want me to understand, you'll probably have to explain, but it's ok if you don't want to.
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One thing it does communicate is that he was indeed in the Lincs. Regt.
This & the L.C. are the only units mentioned on his headstone.
No mention of the 6/Cheshires.
His obit. states he had 4 years service which ties in with his 6/Cheshires
service number which indicates a Sept./Oct. 1914 attestation.
As has been said his gratuity is wrong or for some unknown reason some
of his service was forfeited.
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I'm with you.
Jim, many thanks :)
It's such a shame his service records don't survive.