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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: bobtonks on Saturday 07 June 25 16:45 BST (UK)

Title: Rosina Berry
Post by: bobtonks on Saturday 07 June 25 16:45 BST (UK)
Rosa Williams was born 10 February 1865, Redditch to Henry and Ann Williams.

On 3 December 1883 Rosina Williams married Joseph Berry (1864) , B'ham Register Office

Five children, Joseph 1884, Rose E 1886, Gertrude 1887, Florence 1889, and Clare May 1890-1890.

In 1891 the family were living 156 Broad Street, Birmingham.

In 1901 Joseph was living with his mother (Sarah Jones) and three childen at 63 Friston Street.
No sign of Rosina, although Joseph is recorded as married.

In 1911 Joseph is still living with his mother at 23 Eldon Road Edgbaston. widowed.

Can anyone see what happened to Rosina ? 1901 census and death record
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: rosie17 on Saturday 07 June 25 17:15 BST (UK)
There is a death for
Rosina Williams ?
1894 Birmingham Warwickshire
Age 30
Birth year1864

Rosie
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: bobtonks on Saturday 07 June 25 18:00 BST (UK)
FreeBMD has her age as 39.

Rosina may well have reverted to her maiden name for whatever reason.
She just disappeared. 1n 1891 she had four children all under six years old. Very odd.
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 07 June 25 18:55 BST (UK)
Can you find the other child?  He or she could be with her in 1901.

Which 3 children were with Joseph in 1901?
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: rosie17 on Saturday 07 June 25 19:19 BST (UK)
The other child  I think it's possible is a Scholar in a protestant dissenting charity School
Birmingham Warwickshire 1901
Florence Berry age 12

Rosie
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: bobtonks on Saturday 07 June 25 22:01 BST (UK)
In 1901 there were two children living with Joseph, Joseph (1885) and Gertrude plus his sister Elizabeth (1870).

Interesting that Florence was recorded at school, possibly boarding.

Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: amondg on Sunday 08 June 25 02:52 BST (UK)
Have you checked the Warwickshire Archives ?

Florence was the youngest child, perhaps there is a record of her admission to the all girls school.

Her mother Rosina may well have suffered illness after so many children and the death of Clare May.

Do you have the death certificate for Clare May Berry - for a cause of death.
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: bobtonks on Sunday 08 June 25 08:02 BST (UK)
My Grandmother was Gertrude Berry born 26 July 1887. mother Rose. living back of 9 Ladywood Rd.

I have the certificates for my direct family line, births marriages deaths but not for siblings.

In 1901 Gertrude's sister, Rose (1886) possibly working as a servant 286 Haglet Rd Edgbaston living with the Jacobs family.

Still no sign of Rosina.

Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: rosie17 on Sunday 08 June 25 08:30 BST (UK)
There is also a possibility Joseph Berry could have put wrong information about being married in the 1901 census .
Like you can not see anything on Rosina Berry after 1891 only that death as I posted for Rosina Williams
1894 with the wrong age

Rosie
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: bobtonks on Sunday 08 June 25 09:54 BST (UK)
Like you I am a little suspicious of the 1901 record. I have searched deaths for any "Rose Rosie Rosina, " for the twenty years after 1891 and Rosina Williams is still the best bet.
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: rosie17 on Sunday 08 June 25 11:44 BST (UK)
Think it's worth a try at least it will let you know one way or the other  ;)

Rosie

Added there is a Rosina Williams in the 1891 census Birmingham so most probably this is the one that died 1894 Age seems to be right
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: bobtonks on Monday 09 June 25 07:54 BST (UK)
It's interesting that Joseph is recorded as "married" in the 1921 census !!!

living 23 Eldon Road Smethwick with sister Elizabeth 1870 and brother John 1871.
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: rosie17 on Monday 09 June 25 08:10 BST (UK)
It's interesting that Joseph is recorded as "married" in the 1921 census !!!

living 23 Eldon Road Smethwick with sister Elizabeth 1870 and brother John 1871.

Have you checked for a marriage 1911-1921 ?
Got dentist check up this morning will check when I get back

Rosie
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: bobtonks on Monday 09 June 25 10:32 BST (UK)
Joseph was still living with sister Elizabeth at  23 Eldon Road in 1939  - transcribed Bessy in FindMyPast
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: rosie17 on Tuesday 10 June 25 07:46 BST (UK)
Still no further advanced with Rosina checked the 1911 census to see if she was with any family no luck .Did you find Florence on the 1911 census ?

Rosie
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: bobtonks on Tuesday 10 June 25 13:07 BST (UK)
Florence married Stanley Richard Smith in 1911 and died 14 March 1964

In 1921 living Myrtle Grove, Summer Rd Smethwick ... two children ...twins

In 1939 living 9 Hanson's Bridge Rod, Birmingham

Still no sign of Rosina
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 10 June 25 14:45 BST (UK)

Do you have the death certificate for Clare May Berry - for a cause of death.

Would this be her burial at Witton Cemetery Dec 1890?
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/246945605/clare-berry

There is a death for
Rosina Williams ?
1894 Birmingham Warwickshire
Age 30
Birth year1864


There is this burial at Witton Cemetery Nov 1894 Rosina Williams - no age given
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/247166528/rosina-williams

FreeBMD has her age as 39.

As does GRO indexes

WILLIAMS, ROSINA       39 
GRO Reference: 1894  D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 72

Aș Roșie says perhaps thinking about getting that d/c to check - it is available as a digital image from GRO online indexes cost £3.00
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: bobtonks on Tuesday 10 June 25 15:20 BST (UK)
I have ordered the digital copy of  Rosina Williams 1894.

I'm not overly confident  but .........
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 10 June 25 15:26 BST (UK)
I have ordered the digital copy of  Rosina Williams 1894.

I'm not overly confident  but .........

At least you will know one way or the other and as it's an instant download so you don't have to wait! Please let us know how you get on  :)
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 10 June 25 15:55 BST (UK)
When did Rosina's husband Joseph die?

Was it 1942?

BERRY, JOSEPH       77 
GRO Reference: 1942  S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 253

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/246653468/joseph-berry

There's also this entry - index only no image

Joseph Berry
Burial Date   Sep 1942
Cemetery   Warstone Lane Cemetery
Burial Place   Birmingham
Birmingham, England, Birmingham Cemetery and Crematoria Records, 1836-2017

Can't see an entry for a Rosina Berry at that cemetery there is one for a Rosina Williams in Apr 1895 but her age on GRO indexes is 12  :-\

As you say interesting that Joseph Berry is noted as 'married' 1921 & 'M' 1939 and 'widow' 1911 ???
If she was still alive after 1891 perhaps she was in a hospital or medical facility  :-\

Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: bobtonks on Tuesday 10 June 25 15:56 BST (UK)
I have the copy. Rosina Williams died 16 Nov 1894, wife of John Williams , Blacksmith.
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: bobtonks on Tuesday 10 June 25 15:58 BST (UK)
Joseph, her husband, died in 1942.
Title: Re: Rosina Berry
Post by: rosie17 on Tuesday 10 June 25 18:07 BST (UK)
I have the copy. Rosina Williams died 16 Nov 1894, wife of John Williams , Blacksmith.

Well at least it lets you know it's not your Rosina

Rosie