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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: Geordie daughter on Saturday 07 June 25 14:44 BST (UK)
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I am researching a chap called Henry Hobman who was at various times in his life a stud groom, restaurant keeper, and boarding house proprietor. He and his wife Annie were living in The White House, Soulbury, by at least 1915, possibly a year or two earlier, and I'd like to find out more about it if I can, and whether it was part of the Liscombe Estate. There is very little available online about its history, and most hits tend to relate to the White House in nearby Leighton Buzzard instead. Any information gratefully received.
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Given this possible confusion with the other White House, are you able to say approximately where it was (assuming that it no longer exists)?
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Next to a Bakery in 1911 so possibly Leighton Road, Soulbury as per 1901 for the same family :-\
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Some circumstantial evidence suggesting that in 1915 he was not on the Liscombe estate:
in Kelly's Directory 1915, Soulbury, Ernest W Wright is listed for Liscombe Park (and is Lord of the Manor and one of the two principal landowners.), and George Maynard is listed as his stud groom.
Henry Hobman is listed as stud groom to Thurston Holland Hibbert, The Cottage, Soulbury.
Added: but I may have just discovered that The Cottage was in Liscombe Park.
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Oh, Alan, that's brilliant! I've been trying to discover who Henry's employer was for the past few days. In 1911 he and his wife were living in Wing Road, Linslade, but by the time their son John was born the following year they were in Soulbury, so it all hangs together now.
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What’s the source for his address being the White House?
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The 1915 Electoral Rolls. The house is in the High Road, Soulbury (near the former Post Office, apparently) - I found recent sales particulars for it online, complete with photos.
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The occupant of the White House in 1911 was also a Groom (Domestic) - perhaps the property belonged to the estate :-\.
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That's really helpful Rosie. It definitely sounds like the house was tied to the estate, then. I have a sneaky feeling that Mr Holland Hibbert has a family connection to a previous employer of Henry's, back in Devon, but I would need to check that.
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The 1915 Electoral Rolls. The house is in the High Road, Soulbury (near the former Post Office, apparently) - I found recent sales particulars for it online, complete with photos.
I was assuming that that White House was the one you are ruling out since it seems to have 6 bedrooms. I’m referring to this one:
https://tinyurl.com/3wan2x69 (https://tinyurl.com/3wan2x69)
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Yup, that's the right house.
Thurston Holland Hibbert does have a connection to one of Henry's employers, but not the one I thought it was! T.H.H. married Viola Clutterbuck whose pa, a wealthy brewer, was at Putteridge Park (aka Putteridge Bury) near Luton from 1911, and that's where Henry and Annie popped up around 1917 ;D
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I'm unclear if you are still interested in the White House itself, but in the 1910 Valuation it is listed as follows (my summary and transcript where quoted):
White House & White House Closes
Cottage, land and buildings, 10 acres; 0 roods; 15 perches
owner: E. W. Robinson, freehold [so I think that this confirms that it was part of the estate]
occupier F. G. Trollope: with a renewable yearly tenancy from September 1907, £50
The particulars are dated 29/1/14:
A Brick, Stuccoed and Slated House [of?] 4 Bedrooms: 2 Living Rms: Kitchen & Scullery: B&S Stable and Loft: [? E.C.] (not in very nice order, could be made a nice little place):
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Every little scrap of information helps, Alan, and that's really useful stuff. It also may explain why Henry and Annie lived in Wing Road initially, if the place was run down and needed repairs before anyone could move in, and also why they only appear on the electoral roll there in 1915.
What intrigues me is that Thurston Holland Hibbert was called up in August 1914, as he was part of the Hertfordshire Yeomanry, so he was out of the country for a large chunk of the time Henry was in his employ. The Herts Memories website has transcriptions of his diaries and Henry doesn't seem to have gone with him, even though he was still young enough to do military service, so was he considered to be more useful at home managing the stables? An awful lot of the other stud farms in the area had men removed by the dozens.
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Perhaps he had a disability of some sort, enough to disqualify him from military service?
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It's a possibility. I've trawled through the local papers to see if he was mentioned in any of the War Tribunals, but nothing so far. Mr Robinson on the Liscombe Estate nearby had to appeal on behalf his chauffeur, coachman and private secretary (no names given)who were all deemed unsuitable in some way or other, though the first two were only given 6 months exemption, and the secretary conditional exemption. I did wonder if the coachman was Henry because he is described as being "the only man employed in the stables apart from a boy of 15 or 16."
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For background:
Digging deeper into the Valuation Rolls, I have found that “The Cottage” was a large property across the road from the Boot Inn, just at the junction with Church Lane. Looking at street view, I think it is no longer there. It, along with most of the properties on that side of the street were owned by EW Robinson.
The occupier of the White House mentioned previously, F G Trollope (Fabian George) is also recorded as the occupier of The Cottage, but his name is followed by “T Holland Hibbert” in brackets. He is also the occupier of one other Robinson-owned property, a cottage ‘near the Church” , which unfortunately is not actually marked on the map.
Fabian George Trollope was also the occupier of The Cottage in 1911 (Kelly’s Directory). He seems to have been a company director of two building firms, Trollope & Sons and also Trollope & Colls.
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Trollope and Colls on Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollope_&_Colls?wprov=sfti1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollope_&_Colls?wprov=sfti1)
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Thanks for that extra info, Alan, it's really useful. I would kill to know how Thurston Holland Hibbert came to have property in Soulbury and especially how Henry came to be his groom. Thurston was the grandson of Lord Knutsford (and later became 4th Viscount Knutsford himself) and his parents had their country house in Hertfordshire. As I mentioned before, he married Viola Clutterbuck in 1912 and by 1921 was farming at Milebush near Linslade. Maybe I should look into Fabian Trollope.
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Good morning Alan. If you have access to earlier Valuation Rolls or directories, and it's not too much trouble, would you mind very much looking to see when T.H.H's name first appears in connection with Soulbury? I don't know whether Henry was employed by him right from the start in 1911, or whether he initially worked for someone else in Soulbury or surrounds. Annie was a staunch Wesleyan so would have been a committed member of the congregation in Soulbury yet I've only found one mention of her in the newspaper, when she took part in a church fund-raiser for the Belgian refugees in 1914.
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I must have missed something — what places HH in Soulbury in 1911?
The Lloyd George Valuation was a one-off process (apologies if I have somewhere confused it with the Scottish Valuation Rolls). Although this process is nominally dated 1910 many valuations took place later than that.
The only reference to THH in the Soulbury valuations that I have seen is his mention in connection with The Cottage, and that is dated 25th February 1914. That fits nicely with his listing in Kelly's 1915 (reply #3). I've assumed that this means he was subletting from Fabian Trollope.
Thurston Holland Hibbert also has his own listing dated 21/1/14 as owner of some Kennels on Bermuda Road, Cambridge, occupied by Trinity Foot Beagles. Here his address is given as Munder?, Watford. [From census records I see this is actually Munden House.]
As far as directories are concerned THH is mentioned in Soulbury in 1915 Kelly's but not in 1911 Kelly's (when Fabian Trollope is listed at The Cottage). I don't have access to any directories between 1911 and 1915 for Buckinghamshire. In 1911 THH is in his family home, a law student.
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Thank you for going to all that trouble, Alan. (I don't have access to Valuation Rolls at all, so I'm afraid I don't know much about them.) No you haven't missed something - it's just that that's when Henry first pops up in the area. He's in Wing Road, Linslade for the 1911 census, so given what you've found, he may well have been working for someone else initially. Henry's son was born in Soulbury in late 1912, so I know they're there by then though there doesn't seem to be any other mention of the family until 1914/15.
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Have you seen this: https://soulburyparish.co.uk/history/ - there might be something useful there.
Also try Leighton Buzzard Local History Society https://www.lbdahs.org.uk/ as they may have some local knowledge to help you.
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Darnity, thank you so much for those links. I've spent the last half hour or so going through the 1921 sale catalogue and map on the Soulbury site, and it's been massively helpful. The Leighton Buzzard one might be able to help me to locate where exactly on Wing Road my lot were in 1911, as their house only has a name, not a number, in that year's census. I suspect that the house numbers along that road may have changed over the years, too, as they don't seem to follow a logical sequence on Google Street View.
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You're welcome - I often find that looking for a local history society or parish website finds sources of information that turns out to be very useful.
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Yes, they do, and so do those documents that town planners like to draw up for conservation purposes! They sometimes yield some very interesting information in amongst the jargon.