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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: TomGad on Saturday 07 June 25 09:42 BST (UK)

Title: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: TomGad on Saturday 07 June 25 09:42 BST (UK)
I believe he was born in 1821 to his parents William Collins and Elizabeth Woodward. All the census’ say William was born in Abbots Morton but I cannot find anything that appears to be correct. Can somebody help me and see if they can find anything?
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 07 June 25 10:05 BST (UK)
You aren't going to find a birth, as it was pre Civil Registration.
So you are looking for a baptism.

Not everyone was baptised, or baptised as a child.
Some religious denominations only believe in adult baptisms.
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 07 June 25 10:10 BST (UK)
Where and when was he married?. Can you list all the information on the marriage certificate.
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 07 June 25 10:19 BST (UK)
He's 26 & unmarried in 1851 - birthyear 1825 - living in Oxfordshire

1861 he's 35 living in Oxfordshire & married to Jane nee Nevill so birthyear 1826

How have you linked him to parents William & Elizabeth nee Woodward

What is his fathers name & occ on his marriage cert?  Marriage is on freebmd Dec qtr 1851 Oxford

From FS

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1JK-LXL?lang=en
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 07 June 25 10:31 BST (UK)
There is a William COLLINS bapt 27 Apr 1823 St Peter Abbots Morton
Mother SARAH
Illegitimate son. Pauper.

Is this him in Oxfordshire 1861?
William Collins 35 Head born Abbots Morton, Worcestershire
Jane Collins 30 Wife
Sarah A Collins 8 Daughter
Elizabeth Esther Collins 6 Daughter
Thomas William Collins 4 Son
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 07 June 25 10:34 BST (UK)
Sarah also bapt a Benjamin 06 May 1826, buried 24 Apr 1827 infant

She was possibly buried 12 Jun 1827 age 42
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 07 June 25 10:37 BST (UK)
In the 1851 census he is a private in the 23rd (I think) regiment. Have you found any enlistment details or military records for him?
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: TomGad on Saturday 07 June 25 10:43 BST (UK)
There is a William COLLINS bapt 27 Apr 1823 St Peter Abbots Morton
Mother SARAH
Illegitimate son. Pauper.

Is this him in Oxfordshire 1861?
William Collins 35 Head born Abbots Morton, Worcestershire
Jane Collins 30 Wife
Sarah A Collins 8 Daughter
Elizabeth Esther Collins 6 Daughter
Thomas William Collins 4 Son

That would be him in 1861. I cant remember how I linked William and Elizabeth as his parents but there would have been a reason. So now I am ultimately confused
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: ciderdrinker on Saturday 07 June 25 11:12 BST (UK)
Hi
Yes I can see the baptism.
There is a brother Benjamin baptised at Abbots Morton 6.5.1826 ,buried 24.4.1827.
Mom Sarah buried 12.6.1827 age 42.
Other Collins in the village Thomas Collins bapt 8.9. 1816 at Bloxham to William and Elizabeth Collins and went on to marry Charlotte Johns.

A possible baptism for Sarah to William and Elizabeth 8.6.1784  at Banbury so I can see the connection.
William Collins marries Jane Nevill Dec 1851 at Oxford.And that's the record we need .Hopefully it will have a father or witnesses. There doesn't seem to be  a copy online.
Alternatively where is he in 1841?
In 1851 he is a lodger in Oxford .William is aged 26 and is in the Army 23rd Batt.
His military record (not his attestation but the only one I can find) says he is
William Collins 18 6ft 4 3/4 fair complexion grey hair light eyes labourer born Abbots Morton  who signed up 10th June 1843 for 6 years.
So was he with family in 1841?

Ciderdrinker
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: TomGad on Saturday 07 June 25 11:26 BST (UK)
Hi
Yes I can see the baptism.
There is a brother Benjamin baptised at Abbots Morton 6.5.1826 ,buried 24.4.1827.
Mom Sarah buried 12.6.1827 age 42.
Other Collins in the village Thomas Collins bapt 8.9. 1816 at Bloxham to William and Elizabeth Collins and went on to marry Charlotte Johns.

A possible baptism for Sarah to William and Elizabeth 8.6.1784  at Banbury so I can see the connection.
William Collins marries Jane Nevill Dec 1851 at Oxford.And that's the record we need .Hopefully it will have a father or witnesses. There doesn't seem to be  a copy online.
Alternatively where is he in 1841?
In 1851 he is a lodger in Oxford .William is aged 26 and is in the Army 23rd Batt.
His military record (not his attestation but the only one I can find) says he is
William Collins 18 6ft 4 3/4 fair complexion grey hair light eyes labourer born Abbots Morton  who signed up 10th June 1843 for 6 years.
So was he with family in 1841?

Ciderdrinker

So you are saying the Sarah born to William and Elizabeth is the mum of the William I am trying to find the birth of?
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: TomGad on Saturday 07 June 25 11:28 BST (UK)
Hi
Yes I can see the baptism.
There is a brother Benjamin baptised at Abbots Morton 6.5.1826 ,buried 24.4.1827.
Mom Sarah buried 12.6.1827 age 42.
Other Collins in the village Thomas Collins bapt 8.9. 1816 at Bloxham to William and Elizabeth Collins and went on to marry Charlotte Johns.

A possible baptism for Sarah to William and Elizabeth 8.6.1784  at Banbury so I can see the connection.
William Collins marries Jane Nevill Dec 1851 at Oxford.And that's the record we need .Hopefully it will have a father or witnesses. There doesn't seem to be  a copy online.
Alternatively where is he in 1841?
In 1851 he is a lodger in Oxford .William is aged 26 and is in the Army 23rd Batt.
His military record (not his attestation but the only one I can find) says he is
William Collins 18 6ft 4 3/4 fair complexion grey hair light eyes labourer born Abbots Morton  who signed up 10th June 1843 for 6 years.
So was he with family in 1841?

Ciderdrinker

Can somebody find a copy of Jane Nevill’s marriage?
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 07 June 25 12:18 BST (UK)
Quote
Can somebody find a copy of Jane Nevill’s marriage?

It's not online so you need to buy a copy

Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: TomGad on Saturday 07 June 25 13:33 BST (UK)
bapt. 14th Jan 1821 at Bloxham? Is this William?
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 08 June 25 08:24 BST (UK)
Only the M/C will help with this.

Bloxham is a fair distance from Abbots Morton though.

EDIT

No that Bloxham William is not yours;

Bloxham William is on 1861/1871/1881 Census married to Alice

Image of Marriage to Alice MUMFORD 9 Nov. 1848 Pillerton Hersey, Warwickshire.Name as Collings, Father WILLIAM a Labourer
Banns called at Bloxham, William of Bloxham, Alice of Pillerton, Warwickshire.
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: TomGad on Sunday 08 June 25 09:03 BST (UK)
Only the M/C will help with this.

Bloxham is a fair distance from Abbots Morton though.

EDIT

No that Bloxham William is not yours;

Bloxham William is on 1861/1871/1881 Census married to Alice

Image of Marriage to Alice MUMFORD 9 Nov. 1848 Pillerton Hersey, Warwickshire.Name as Collings, Father WILLIAM a Labourer
Banns called at Bloxham, William of Bloxham, Alice of Pillerton, Warwickshire.

So then, I beg the question. which is the correct Will?
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: TomGad on Sunday 08 June 25 09:10 BST (UK)
So let’s run down what I do know. William Collins and Jane Nevill are 100% my 4x great grandparents. In 1881 they are at the Coach and Horses Yard with their children Alfred, Emily and Ada. My 3x great grandmother Jane had already moved out by this point. On that census it states William was born in Abbots Morton in about 1820. So my William was definitely born in Abbots Morton and at some point must have moved down to Oxford. This is all the confirmed information I have as of current.
Title: Re: William Collins, Cant find birth
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 08 June 25 09:15 BST (UK)
As already said you need to purchase the M/C to Jane.

But that may not even help if he has a false Fathers name on the M/C if he was illegitimate and the Son of Sarah.

That is the only William Collins born c 1821 Abbots Morton that has been found.

1851 he is born c 1826 so 1823 baptism is close.